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Thread: Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis

  1. #1

    Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis


    Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis
    By Alissa de Carbonnel 1 hour ago

    SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (Reuters) - Crimea's parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.

    The sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, formally under Moscow's rule came as European Union leaders gathered for an emergency summit to seek ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.

    The Crimean parliament voted unanimously "to enter into the Russian Federation with the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation". The vice premier of Crimea, home to Russia's Black Sea military base in Sevastopol, said a referendum on the status would take place on March 16.
    more here.... http://news.yahoo.com/big-power-talk...-business.html
    “The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
    - Josef Stalin



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  3. #2
    Accelerates? More like ends. If the will of the people is to join Russia then so be it. The US or the EU are not going to war with Russia over Crimea. There will be some big talk and then this will quietly slip out of the news.

  4. #3
    Hahaha.... it surprises me how clueless the average American is to what's going on here.
    It's really obvious, to me anyway, that the rest of the world has some stuff it needs to work out but hasn't been able to for the last 70 years because of the pax Americana.
    Now everyone's noticing we're much more interested in melting the faces off of 4-year-old Pakistani girls than in geopolitics, and they're making a go of it.

    I mean, I was in Deutchland in 2000, and even back then I got the impression that the mood there was something like "We tried this twice and failed, but this time we're going to do it a little differently."
    And it makes total sense that Russia's all like "HEY!!! We're oooooooooon to you........"
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  5. #4
    This is turning out to be the least deadly invasion in all of human history, I mean more Americans on average die from a SWAT invasion of a drugs suspects house than this so called invasion or like some would call it invitation. But I guess the US has to respect their decision since its democratic and all, right?

  6. #5
    If they voted for it, there shoudn't be any more hubb-bub from our end. si or no? lol

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    If they voted for it, there shoudn't be any more hubb-bub from our end. si or no? lol
    I think the spin on this is that the vote came when their was armed Russian soldiers in the room when it happened. Calling it coercion.
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I think the spin on this is that the vote came when their was armed Russian soldiers in the room when it happened. Calling it coercion.
    I actually believe the people of crimea lean Russian however I know if the side was reversed and it was a county with US troops patrolling the streets and the people vote to join the US there is no way in HELL people on here wouldn't call it out as a unfair vote.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  9. #8
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...es-join-russia

    While the world is convinced that Putin's Tuesday press conference was an admission of blinking to the west, the reality is anything but that, and hours ago Crimea's parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in what Reuters said is a "a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula." To be sure, the Crimea - which has an ethnic Russian majority - affiliation to Moscow as opposed to Kiev is well-known, yet still the sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea formally under Moscow's rule came as European Union leaders gathered for an emergency summit to seek ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation. And now all Putin has to do is sit back and say the people have spoken and without spilling a drop of blood has effectively split the country in two parts, with the entire east of Ukraine, where pro-Russian sentiment also runs high - sure to follow Crimea. Just as we said from the very beginning.
    [...]
    But back to the Crimea, where a parliament official said voters will be asked two questions: should Crimea be part of the Russian Federation and should Crimea return to an earlier constitution (1992) that gave the region more autonomy?

    "If there weren't constant threats from the current illegal Ukrainian authorities, maybe we would have taken a different path," deputy parliament speaker Sergei Tsekov told reporters outside the parliament building in Crimea's main city of Simferopol.

    "I think there was an annexation of Crimea by Ukraine, if we are going to call things by their name. Because of this mood and feeling we took the decision to join Russia. I think we will feel much more comfortable there."
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  11. #9
    If the will of the people is to join Russia then so be it.
    If legit, I totally agree.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

  12. #10
    It is funny that even though there is absolutely no American troops on the streets of the Ukraine when the Ukrainian parliament voted overwhelming to impeach their president many on here called it a US installed coup. Calling out the hypocrisy on here is really getting fun.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  13. #11
    Crimea is 75% Russian... majority rules. Question will be, what about all the other Oblasts within the Ukraine borders? Obvious this country is divided/segregated East/West.

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  14. #12
    But back to the Crimea, where a parliament official said voters will be asked two questions: should Crimea be part of the Russian Federation and should Crimea return to an earlier constitution (1992) that gave the region more autonomy?
    It's obvious that Russia will always act as a protector of Crimea, so why not just opt to be an independent nation? Greater autonomy will be nice, but they will probably vote to join Russia too.
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  15. #13

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    It is funny that even though there is absolutely no American troops on the streets of the Ukraine when the Ukrainian parliament voted overwhelming to impeach their president many on here called it a US installed coup. Calling out the hypocrisy on here is really getting fun.
    Two words: covert ops. The US doesn't need overt troops where covert operations will do, as confirmed by multiple reports covering the Ukrainian "revolution" (read coup).

    Meanwhile, NO violence reported concerning the Russian troops in Crimea, no evidence the people there don't want them around, no confirmed evidence of covert ops by the Russian government. You appear to be making no distinctions whatsoever based on these details.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...s-the-weasels/

  17. #15
    Funny I didn't hear anything about the peoples right when the majority of the former east block counties vote and WANTED to join the EU and NATO. The words I was hearing around here was that the US was trying to surround Russia. Yeaw the hypocrisy runs high.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Two words: covert ops. The US doesn't need overt troops where covert operations will do, as confirmed by multiple reports covering the Ukrainian "revolution" (read coup).

    Meanwhile, NO violence reported concerning the Russian troops in Crimea, no evidence the people there don't want them around, no confirmed evidence of covert ops by the Russian government. You appear to be making no distinctions whatsoever based on these details.
    There is no evidence of US covert OPs.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    It is funny that even though there is absolutely no American troops on the streets of the Ukraine when the Ukrainian parliament voted overwhelming to impeach their president many on here called it a US installed coup. Calling out the hypocrisy on here is really getting fun.
    The Ukrainian parliament removed Yanukovych from office illegally. Impeachment under their constitution can only be done for treason or another crime and requires a simple majority vote to bring the matter up, and then a two-thirds majority to actually impeach. To actually remove him after impeachment requires a three-fourths majority vote, that threshold was not met, not to mention the two other votes were skipped.

    Ascertaining the legitimacy of the interim government in Kiev is quite tricky. According to Article 111 of the Ukrainian constitution, the President can only be impeached from office by parliament through “no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition.” On February 22, 2014 the Ukrainian parliament voted 328-0 to impeach President Yanukovych who fled to Russia the night prior. However for an effective impeachment under constitutional rules the 449-seated parliament would have needed 337 votes to remove Yanukovych from office. Thus under the current constitution, Yanukovych is still the incumbent and legitimate President of the Ukraine.

    http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/03/r...ader-responds/
    Quote Originally Posted by Constitution of Ukraine
    Article 111. The President of Ukraine may be removed from the office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine in compliance with a procedure of impeachment if he commits treason or other crime.

    The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from the office in compliance with a procedure of impeachment shall be initiated by the majority of the constitutional membership of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

    The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine shall establish a special ad hoc investigating commission, composed of special prosecutor and special investigators to conduct an investigation.

    The conclusions and proposals of the ad hoc investigating commission shall be considered at the meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

    On the ground of evidence, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine shall, by at least two-thirds of its constitutional membership, adopt a decision to bring charges against the President of Ukraine.

    The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from the office in compliance with the procedure of impeachment shall be adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by at least three-quarters of its constitutional membership upon a review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine, and receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and upon a receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of treason or other crime.

    http://www.president.gov.ua/en/content/chapter05.html

  21. #18
    This is a move in the right direction. Probably more areas in the East will join Russia as well.

  22. #19
    Where's the push for poly-centric law?

    Let people choose for their own property what "nation" is their governor. Popular vote telling a minority what state to be subject to is no better than a foreign coup telling the people who their new state will be.
    "You cannot solve these problems with war." - Ron Paul

  23. #20
    I live in Taiwan. The citizens of this country speak Chinese, eat Chinese food, celebrate traditional (not nationalistic) Chinese customs, sing Chinese songs, and are very Taiwanese in their understanding of the politics of mainland China. That doesn't mean they don't prefer by the vast majority to remain Taiwanese and independent of China.

    Just because the majority of the Ukrainians speak Russian, eat Russian food, celebrate traditional (not nationalistic) Russian customs, sing Russian songs, and are very Ukrainian in their understanding of the politics of mother Russia, That doesn't mean they don't prefer by the vast majority to remain Ukrainian and independent of Russia.

    We were once American colonist from England. Did we favor unification with England simply because we spoke the language and mirrored the culture?

    I have a friend here in Taiwan who is from Belarus. He identifies with the Ukrainians. He is proud of his ethnicity as an ethic Russian, but also proud of his nationality as a Belarusian not a Bel-a-Russian.
    “The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
    - Josef Stalin

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    It is funny that even though there is absolutely no American troops on the streets of the Ukraine when the Ukrainian parliament voted overwhelming to impeach their president many on here called it a US installed coup. Calling out the hypocrisy on here is really getting fun.
    There is no shortage of it.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutional Paulicy View Post
    I live in Taiwan. The citizens of this country speak Chinese, eat Chinese food, celebrate traditional (not nationalistic) Chinese customs, sing Chinese songs, and are very Taiwanese in their understanding of the politics of mainland China. That doesn't mean they don't prefer by the vast majority to remain Taiwanese and independent of China.

    Just because the majority of the Ukrainians speak Russian, eat Russian food, celebrate traditional (not nationalistic) Russian customs, sing Russian songs, and are very Ukrainian in their understanding of the politics of mother Russia, That doesn't mean they don't prefer by the vast majority to remain Ukrainian and independent of Russia.
    Well this will be put to the test. Crimeans will vote in 10 days whether they want to remain a part of the Ukraine or secede and become a republic within the Russian Federation.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Well this will be put to the test. Crimeans will vote in 10 days whether they want to remain a part of the Ukraine or secede and become a republic within the Russian Federation.
    You say that the American government was imposing it's will upon those who favored a new system of government (which I don't deny), but what makes you believe that the Russian troops in Crimea aren't imposing their will on the citizens of Crimea?
    “The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
    - Josef Stalin

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    Crimea is 75% Russian... majority rules. Question will be, what about all the other Oblasts within the Ukraine borders? Obvious this country is divided/segregated East/West.

    Eastern Ukraine is out of reach for Russia I think that even they know it at the moment so they decided to double down on Crimea.Russia controlling Odessa and having a direct border with Romania would be unacceptable to the EU and the USA.From there they could turn the entire Balkans to their side in a matter of years with cheap energy and opening up the Russian market especially for agriculture ( something the EU regulates heavily ).Not that anyone likes the Russians but everyone hates the west,all they ever got was the grants and loans everyone looked at Greece and saw the EU basically trowing money at them and wanted some as well but now there is no more money.
    Last edited by Demigod; 03-06-2014 at 01:19 PM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Well this will be put to the test. Crimeans will vote in 10 days whether they want to remain a part of the Ukraine or secede and become a republic within the Russian Federation.
    It will be a test but maybe not what they prefer. Russian troops roaming the streets would make one that is pro Ukraine think twice about putting their name on a list in a voting booth. They are going to be quite aware what Putin did in Chechnya.
    I have seen it posted many time that the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are puppet US dictated elected government around here...
    Last edited by klamath; 03-06-2014 at 01:36 PM.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutional Paulicy View Post
    You say that the American government was imposing it's will upon those who favored a new system of government (which I don't deny), but what makes you believe that the Russian troops in Crimea aren't imposing their will on the citizens of Crimea?
    Crimea's government asked Russia to take over. Crimea's majority is Russian. Not a single shot has been fired since Russian troops took over Crimea.

    Does that sound like a people who are having a will imposed on them?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    It will be a test but maybe not what they prefer. Russian troops roaming the streets would make one that is pro Ukraine think twice about putting their name on a list in a voting booth. They are going to be quite aware what Putin did in Chechnya.
    I have seen it posted many time that the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are puppet US dictated elected government around here...
    I think we are on the same page with this one.
    “The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
    - Josef Stalin

  32. #28
    Russian interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda > Western interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda

    Ok, got it.

    Binary logic is really in force here lately

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Wadesc View Post
    Russian interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda > Western interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda

    Ok, got it.

    Binary logic is really in force here lately
    You would think it wouldn't be that hard to grasp.
    “The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
    - Josef Stalin

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutional Paulicy View Post
    You say that the American government was imposing it's will upon those who favored a new system of government (which I don't deny), but what makes you believe that the Russian troops in Crimea aren't imposing their will on the citizens of Crimea?
    And some of you are acting like there is some human genocide going on over there in Ukraine. All we can do is sit back and assume about who is pulling what strings behind the scenes. The safest bet for the sanity of the United States is to mind our own business. Because in the end its going to be American Tax payers, American soldiers, and innocent civilians paying the price.

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