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Thread: To my Protestant brothers and sisters on the forum.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    That's easy, the universal thing is, we are all Christians.
    Yes, indeed we are, when we follow His commandments. Do we love our neighbor? Do we give help to those less fortunate? If we do the works commanded of us out of love for God, then we are Christians.

    This does not mean there are many true faiths and true churches. There is one faith and one church just as there is one body of Christ. These are biblical and apostolic teachings. We will all be saved and enter into this one faith and one body just as we will be saved in the one Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Which Church that is, which communion it is around the unity of faith, mind, and communion of the Holy Eucharist, we will find out on the Last Day when the saints of all time partake in the heavenly liturgy of the Kingdom of God and God will open up the Book of Life.

    May all the members here be found in that book and find true life in the Kingdom of God!
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Actually, that's not so easy. As I mentioned before, there are thousands of heterodox definitions of "Christian", and they each tend to look down on each other. For example, I've known people who don't consider Mormons to be Christians. If there's no agreement on what the C-word even means, there's no universality there.
    Do you consider Mormons to be Christians?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Who are we to say they are wrong?

    How about we all agree that we are all Christians and go with that?
    I don't agree. I think the vast majority of people here are not Christians.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Do you consider Mormons to be Christians?


    I don't agree. I think the vast majority of people here are not Christians.
    Gasp.... he's not saved. /s

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    You can go even further than that. Go right down to however many individual believers they are, each and every one unique. But if their faith is in Christ, then all those unique individuals belong to his one universal catholic Church.

    This is how it has always been, from the day this Church began on Pentecost.

    As long as those denominations you're talking about are just organizations of local churches for mutual support, without claiming that their organization is the one true Church in its entirety, they're not contradicting that doctrine of the catholic Church.

    On the other hand, I do know of some organizations of professing Christians that do claim that their organization is the one true Church in its entirety. These claims really do besmirch the unity and universality of the catholic Church.
    Know any organizations like that?
    There have been lots of schismatics since Pentacost. Christian history books are full of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Gasp.... he's not saved. /s
    I think there's a lot of false peace speaking on this forum based on false pretenses.

    THe liberty movement is important, yes. But when it comes to who is, or is not saved, that common ground is not helpful.

    The gospel is a very specific message about what Christ did. Catholics and EOs have a very different view of what that is from Protestants. Catholics and EOs stand with the Judaizers against Paul, who Christians follow.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    How about we all agree that we are all Christians and go with that?
    I've never disagreed with that. The only thing at question is exactly how to define the word (and big-C "Church"), as I said before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've never disagreed with that. The only thing at question is exactly how to define the word (and big-C "Church"), as I said before.
    There aren't any baptismal regenerationists in it.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    There have been lots of schismatics since Pentacost. Christian history books are full of them.
    There has been lots of error.. and that continues in all churches.

    There are core beliefs,, the basic Gospel. that Christ died for man,,to redeem a people for God.
    The Good News of Salvation,, the promise of Resurrection and eternal life.

    Those that Love and seek God, versus the godless.
    There are basic truths that all churches believe,, though their understanding of the mechanics may vary.

    I may be wrong about some things,,and will be corrected when I get there. And you may be as well.

    It is written "He will wipe the tears from the eyes" ,, I am sure that many will be surprised at the dumb stuff we have been taught to believe.

    or things we never learned.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 08-28-2014 at 10:42 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've never disagreed with that. The only thing at question is exactly how to define the word (and big-C "Church"), as I said before.
    Here is a church....
    NRS Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them."

  12. #70
    Job 19:25

    As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God
    old Job was not of any known religion,, and yet he knew this.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Here is a church....
    I wholly agree. A liturgical service can happen anywhere-cave, cafeteria, etc, etc.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 08-28-2014 at 11:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Job 19:25



    old Job was not of any known religion,, and yet he knew this.
    Job 1:21 is part of the orthodox hymn tradition, and is sung at the end of every liturgy. The book is generally considered part of the Wisdom literature, along with the Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom of Sirach, etc.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 08-28-2014 at 11:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  16. #73
    “I have as much authority as the Pope. I just don’t have as many people who believe it.” -- George Carlin

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    There have been lots of schismatics since Pentacost. Christian history books are full of them.
    You mean people claiming that if you don't belong to their organization then you don't belong to the one true Church?

    Yes, there have.

    Know of any?

    Fortunately the apostles didn't claim that. They recognized that even while they were starting and building up their churches, other believers in Jesus were out doing the same in other parts of the world, completely without their knowledge, involvement, or any visible connection to them, and when they encountered believers who were the fruits of these ministries, they recognized them as already members of the one true holy catholic orthodox Church. The reason the true Church really is catholic is that those who do claim that their organization is the entirety of the one true Church are wrong.
    Last edited by erowe1; 08-29-2014 at 06:19 AM.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I think there's a lot of false peace speaking on this forum based on false pretenses.
    I've heard that idiom before. Speaking peace....let me think...where was that? Oh yeah. Never mind.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I think there's a lot of false peace speaking on this forum based on false pretenses.

    THe liberty movement is important, yes. But when it comes to who is, or is not saved, that common ground is not helpful.

    The gospel is a very specific message about what Christ did. Catholics and EOs have a very different view of what that is from Protestants. Catholics and EOs stand with the Judaizers against Paul, who Christians follow.
    FF, the Gospel message isn't just about what Christ did, but it's a the message on how we are supposed to believe and live according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Paul was a devout Jew, who came from the tribe of Benjamin and chosen by God to speak to the hierarchy of the more devout Jews of his time for a reason. He explained the difference now under the New Covenant and Law of Faith as opposed to the way the lived and believed under the Old Covenant Law (the Mosaic Law). That the works we do now under the Law of Faith are done naturally because of our faith in the work of Jesus. The works that were done under the Mosaic Law were done out of ceremony, rituals and self righteousness to obtain righteousness.

    This is where Protestant teachings and doctrine fail. Belief and Faith are not the same and are not synonymous. Belief is just that and faith is our good works that follow and back up that belief because of the nature of Christ in us. Why do you think that Jesus Himself told you to let your light shine for the world to see by doing these goods works that are the only thing that can possibly glorify the Father in Heaven.

    Anyone can believe in Christ, it's what you do as a result of that which glorifies the Father in Heaven. That is your faith and good works that are done by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Without this--Paul, James, John, Hebrews--the entire Gospel of Jesus Christ and Revelation all tell you that only your good works done in faith can glorify the Father in Heaven and what you will be judged by God Himself for.

    Matthew 5:14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

    Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.





    So it's fairly obvious to those who live and walk in the Spirit of the Lord and understand that without our good works that follow our belief in Christ--Jesus that all of the Apostles here are telling us that we have no light--we can not glorify God--our faith then becomes dead and grace no effect.

    This is why Protestant teachings are wrong because they fail to acknowledge the difference under the two separate covenants and Laws. This is why their teaching can not reconcile why Paul tells us there are two different kinds of traditions and works. Paul tells us not to do one type of dead work, while at the same time Paul encourages us to do a "work of faith". Paul tells us that the Jewish traditions of the Old Covenant make void the word of God while at the same time tells us to "hold fast and keep" our Christian traditions we have been taught.

    Two very opposite set of works and traditions that we are told to do and not do under the New Law of faith. Protestant teaching has been infected by Calvinism and Lutheranism.
    Last edited by Terry1; 08-29-2014 at 07:21 AM.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Do you consider Mormons to be Christians?


    I don't agree. I think the vast majority of people here are not Christians.
    How ironic you should say such a thing that many here believe applies to you as well. I could say the very same thing about you in your current state of mind and belief, but then we are all on a journey to the very end of our lives and I have no way of knowing if at some point you might be enlightened to your own short fallings and come to see what actually is the Gospel saving message of Christ.

    Because most Protestants here are basically arguing the point that we can live any way we choose and still be saved, while the Catholics and EOC are telling you that God has commanded us to live Godly lives and do the "good works" that glorify the Father in Heaven. Who is missing the mark here?

    What are the two greatest commandments in the word of God? Here they are:

    36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    How can you love God and your neighbors without doing good works unto them? It's impossible. You are then in violation of the word of God and the two greatest commandments. The essence of Love is Sacrifice--without sacrifice and the spirit of giving--you have no faith and grace is of no effect in your life. This is a serious charge.
    Last edited by Terry1; 08-29-2014 at 07:49 AM.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Yes, indeed we are, when we follow His commandments. Do we love our neighbor? Do we give help to those less fortunate? If we do the works commanded of us out of love for God, then we are Christians.

    This does not mean there are many true faiths and true churches. There is one faith and one church just as there is one body of Christ. These are biblical and apostolic teachings. We will all be saved and enter into this one faith and one body just as we will be saved in the one Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Which Church that is, which communion it is around the unity of faith, mind, and communion of the Holy Eucharist, we will find out on the Last Day when the saints of all time partake in the heavenly liturgy of the Kingdom of God and God will open up the Book of Life.

    May all the members here be found in that book and find true life in the Kingdom of God!
    XC! And I second everything you just said. Wonderful post!

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry1 View Post
    Because most Protestants here are basically arguing the point that we can live any way we choose.
    Gasp! You said the P-word!

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Gasp! You said the P-word!
    LOL, we just look around and wonder who she's talking about.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I wholly agree. A liturgical service can happen anywhere-cave, cafeteria, etc, etc.
    Does one of the two need to be a priest?
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Gasp! You said the P-word!
    I know--I don't know what got into me today. I think it was that chocolate chip cookie I ate today that gave me a sugar rush since I've been sworn off sugar for months now. I've really done some wild and crazy stuff today. You don't want to know.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
    Does one of the two need to be a priest?
    No. Unless you want a priest's blessing (this authority is apostloic). Lay people can administer "extraordinary" eucharist in the RCC tradition. http://www.st-nicholaschurch.org/Ext...Guidelines.pdf Can't find the EO tradition ATM, but I reckon it's similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I've heard that idiom before. Speaking peace....let me think...where was that? Oh yeah. Never mind.
    The Bible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry1 View Post
    How ironic you should say such a thing that many here believe applies to you as well. I could say the very same thing about you in your current state of mind and belief, but then we are all on a journey to the very end of our lives and I have no way of knowing if at some point you might be enlightened to your own short fallings and come to see what actually is the Gospel saving message of Christ.
    I am not judging who will or will not ultimately be saved. I have hope that all of you might eventually be saved.
    Because most Protestants here are basically arguing the point that we can live any way we choose and still be saved, while the Catholics and EOC are telling you that God has commanded us to live Godly lives and do the "good works" that glorify the Father in Heaven. Who is missing the mark here?
    Wrong. Rather, Protestantism teaches that saving faith shows itself through good works, and that someone who lacks good works is not a Christian.
    What are the two greatest commandments in the word of God? Here they are:

    36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    How can you love God and your neighbors without doing good works unto them? It's impossible. You are then in violation of the word of God and the two greatest commandments. The essence of Love is Sacrifice--without sacrifice and the spirit of giving--you have no faith and grace is of no effect in your life. This is a serious charge.
    Yet its a false charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry1 View Post
    FF, the Gospel message isn't just about what Christ did, but it's a the message on how we are supposed to believe and live according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    You are indeed supposed to believe the gospel and live accordingly. But the gospel: the message you believe at the moment of conversion, is about who Christ is and what he did.
    Paul was a devout Jew, who came from the tribe of Benjamin and chosen by God to speak to the hierarchy of the more devout Jews of his time for a reason. He explained the difference now under the New Covenant and Law of Faith as opposed to the way the lived and believed under the Old Covenant Law (the Mosaic Law). That the works we do now under the Law of Faith are done naturally because of our faith in the work of Jesus. The works that were done under the Mosaic Law were done out of ceremony, rituals and self righteousness to obtain righteousness.

    This is where Protestant teachings and doctrine fail. Belief and Faith are not the same and are not synonymous. Belief is just that and faith is our good works that follow and back up that belief because of the nature of Christ in us. Why do you think that Jesus Himself told you to let your light shine for the world to see by doing these goods works that are the only thing that can possibly glorify the Father in Heaven.

    Anyone can believe in Christ, it's what you do as a result of that which glorifies the Father in Heaven. That is your faith and good works that are done by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Without this--Paul, James, John, Hebrews--the entire Gospel of Jesus Christ and Revelation all tell you that only your good works done in faith can glorify the Father in Heaven and what you will be judged by God Himself for.

    Matthew 5:14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

    Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.





    So it's fairly obvious to those who live and walk in the Spirit of the Lord and understand that without our good works that follow our belief in Christ--Jesus that all of the Apostles here are telling us that we have no light--we can not glorify God--our faith then becomes dead and grace no effect.

    This is why Protestant teachings are wrong because they fail to acknowledge the difference under the two separate covenants and Laws. This is why their teaching can not reconcile why Paul tells us there are two different kinds of traditions and works. Paul tells us not to do one type of dead work, while at the same time Paul encourages us to do a "work of faith". Paul tells us that the Jewish traditions of the Old Covenant make void the word of God while at the same time tells us to "hold fast and keep" our Christian traditions we have been taught.

    Two very opposite set of works and traditions that we are told to do and not do under the New Law of faith. Protestant teaching has been infected by Calvinism and Lutheranism.
    Faith and belief are the same thing.
    Last edited by Christian Liberty; 08-29-2014 at 05:27 PM.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry1 View Post
    I know--I don't know what got into me today. I think it was that chocolate chip cookie I ate today that gave me a sugar rush since I've been sworn off sugar for months now. I've really done some wild and crazy stuff today. You don't want to know.
    I want to know!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Protestant teaching has been infected by Calvinism and Lutheranism.
    I've never seen that stated before.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I've never seen that stated before.
    I didn't say it. Terry did. I made a quote mistake. Its fixed now.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    The Bible?
    Does the Bible ever use the phrase the way you did?



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Does the Bible ever use the phrase the way you did?
    9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

    3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?



    The principles are there. Its probably a Carpentarian phrase. So what? I don't agree with the way some people go way overboard with the concept, that doesn't mean the concept that we shouldn't greet those who preach false gospels as brethren is unbiblical.


  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    The principles are there. Its probably a Carpentarian phrase. So what? I don't agree with the way some people go way overboard with the concept, that doesn't mean the concept that we shouldn't greet those who preach false gospels as brethren is unbiblical.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I was talking about the speaking peace line.

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