I was forced to sign up in order to complete the requirements of my master's degree. Yeah, I suppose I had the choice of throwing away the eight previous years of work toward licensing in my profession.Originally Posted by angelatc
How about them "selling" your information to the government, of whom you are extorted to pay?
$#@! Google. The POS.
Some people have an amazingly cavalier attitude.
So they compile data to create algorithms that enhance NSA spying capabilities? Meh. So long as I get bombarded with creepily targeted messaging, profiles created from data swaps, and a phone that tracks me, life is good.
“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell
Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump
Exactly. Where does the NSA get its data from? A lot of it comes from Private companies.
Excuse: We'll show you more relevant ads. Translated: We'll offer you the chance to save a bit of money on product A or B. The choice (or the Box / Limitation of Choices = Illusion) is to spend money. The choice that is NOT offered (by Default) is to not be tracked, period.
Is any of this Tracking done with the permission of the individual? Tracking has exceeded well beyond the internet and ownership of tracking technology. The only choice a person now has is to be tracked, or to not be a part of society. Either way, it is all done without a Warrant or Probable Cause. Every single person is now Guilty until proven Innocent.
John Adams once said:
“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt
and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished.
But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen
will say, ‘whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no
protection,’ and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that
would be the end of security whatsoever.”
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
More like perspective and priorities. But if you intend to consistently apply your loathing of any and all who cooperate, exchange, and associate with the State, you ought to be prepared to loathe every tax-payer, every law-abider, and every employee of the State as well.
Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard
I do not loathe you, or in general the tax paying public. Perhaps my post was poorly worded. I actually like a lot of what you post. Your attitude is the same of virtually everyone I know. But their ideas of perspective and priorities are based on sports statistics and other pointless bull$#@!. I try to explain the issues with regards to a certain topic, and needless to say, no one cares. You are obviously quite well educated and aware of what is going on. Maybe my frustration with others shone through more than I intend to let it.
“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell
Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump
I wasn't talking about me personally... I'm saying that if you hate Google for cooperating with the State, and if you intend to be consistent, you must then be prepared to hate others who do the same--which would then include tax payers, employees, and law abiding citizens. OTOH, perhaps Google, just like anyone else, is just as much a victim of the State as anyone else. Surely Google is not the most perfect company, or the greatest victim, occupied only by angels, but neither are they same dastardly comical villain, twisting its mustache and toking a cigar as it colludes with the State by selling them your *gasp* search history, as if the State doesn't have the resources to dig up whatever information on you it wants to anyway. I suppose I prefer to keep my eye on the prize and not get distracted by these kinds of ...red herrings.
Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard
A red herring would be to imply law abiding citizens as being on the level with government employees or even those who pay taxes (or rather, to add in that universally accepted norm (law abiding citizens being 'good'), at least with regards to sane people, and attempt to link that to whom I would have issue with). What would possibly be the issue of obeying the law if not to be an attempt fallaciously misrepresent my position? People have an obligation to obey the law. If they break it, you know, say, flagrantly and systematically violate the privacy all humans are inherently documented to relish, they ought to be punished. If they say, intentionally babble in intricately double spoken legalese so as an attempt to thwart the law, or as an attempt to trick people into using their product, a product of which is propped up artificially by government influence... you know, they ought to be punished. And for instance, when they accept the payments, of which are stolen, to provide information of which is stolen, or at best questionably obtained, they ought be punished (for at least one thing, if not the other, is a crime).
The law isn't this but is that, I expect to hear. What the average person considers to be law, hardly would play into the conversation. To clarify, it matters not of what they consider to be the law, and what they obey as that result. What matters is that people obey the law. Your post didn't discern between the two. (nor did your post acknowledge that Google has broken the law, of which (the law) it was [fallaciously] implied I would logically be bound to loath those who obeyed)
Google is as "neutral" or as victimized as a hemorrhoid could be said to be. Play ball or don't play ball; I'm sure it keeps them up for days.
Furthermore, if you don't mind me asking, what priorities are you speaking of?
“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell
Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump
The State.
The law is just more force initiated by the State, btw. But the language you use doesn't seem to acknowledge this. 'Privacy all humans are documented to relish'? Documented by who or what? The State? Careface.
The law is an extension of the State force. Whatever the State does or doesn't 'document', or claim, or say, or mandate, is all irrelevant to me, because the State itself is illegitimate, and has no real authority to exist, let alone grant or deny anyone any rights, or hold anyone to any laws that it dreams up and enforces, or punish anyone in accordance with these laws. Spooner says hi.
In any case, your position comes off as incredibly inconsistent to me. You're essentially QQing about Google having dealings with the State when this could quite literally be said for every single citizen, business, company, corporation, or employee in this country, most likely including yourself, and most of whom tend to have no, or very little, choice in the matter; and you're not holding them all to the same standard. Meanwhile, all you're offering are a bunch of fairly hollow, or at least ambiguously defined allegations about something that is relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and almost entirely concerned with State law which has no legitimacy anyhow, as if that is supposed to be of some great concern.
I clearly have a much different perspective, as well as much different valuations, on these things than you do so it's whatever. Different strokes for different folks. But if you expect me to appreciate where you're coming from, you're going to have to do better than 'obey laws' and 'documented rights'.
Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard
No it is not. The law is the law. It is not what a majority comes to perceive as being the law or what the majority is led to follow as the "law". It is not rules written and enforced by government agents. The law existed before, and will exist after, any state. Illegitimate edicts are just that, illegitimate edicts. Your language does not seem to recognize this irrefutable truth.
The right to privacy is naturally ingrained in every person. It is fundamental to human beings. It cannot be argued that all humans do not relish privacy; that all humans do not seek at times, seclusion from others. It is inherent to our being.
This global panopticon of surveillance tactics violates this natural law. It effectively creates a people of which do not act as they otherwise would. It infringes on the very being of one's being. Second guessing and chilled speech are the result. This even ignores the point that YOU ARE BEING ROBBED TO PAY FOR IT. You pay to spy on yourself and you pay for your own virtual confinement under an ever-watching eye. You have bigger things to worry about, though, so with that, be on your way.
No, it is in fact, not. What they bastardizingly assert to be the "law," which violates natural law, is in fact, not a law at all.The law is an extension of the State force.
Baby steps, my friend. Why is it illegitimate? (a rhetorical question, of sorts)Whatever the State does or doesn't 'document', or claim, or say, or mandate, is all irrelevant to me, because the State itself is illegitimate, and has no real authority to exist, let alone grant or deny anyone any rights, or hold anyone to any laws that it dreams up and enforces, or punish anyone in accordance with these laws.
Perhaps you could ask him to explain to you what I am speaking of?Spooner says hi.
You're essentially not understanding my position, or more probably, deliberately attempting to misrepresent it. Humans have natural rights. One of which is not to be forcibly extorted. Another of which is not to have an inherent aspect of humanity degraded. That is, to be surveilled, tracked, and prodded like a goddamned cow.In any case, your position comes off as incredibly inconsistent to me. You're essentially QQing about Google having dealings with the State....
So therefore, what might you assert to be inconsistent in saying: Being robbed so that you can be effectively surveilled, tracked and prodded, to unlawfully exult certain corporations into monolithic, almost untouchable entities, is violating of the law. (what a shocking revelation for the supposed enlightened)
See, you have whores and you have agents and you have people trying to morally get by as best they can without being confined to a cage. Google would be an example of a whore.... when this could quite literally be said for every single citizen, business, company, corporation, or employee in this country, most likely including yourself, and most of whom tend to have no, or very little, choice in the matter; and you're not holding them all to the same standard.
It is quite relevant in the scheme of things. More relevant than almost any other thing, in fact. Effecting a global surveillance network is not relatively insignificant. Give it ten years, and wait for the knock.Meanwhile, all you're offering are a bunch of fairly hollow, or at least ambiguously defined allegations about something that is relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and almost entirely concerned with State law which has no legitimacy anyhow, as if that is supposed to be of some great concern.
How much more simply do you need me to speak?I clearly have a much different perspective, as well as much different valuations, on these things than you do so it's whatever. Different strokes for different folks. But if you expect me to appreciate where you're coming from, you're going to have to do better than 'obey laws' and 'documented rights'.
“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell
Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump
I'd agree with you entirely if I didn't suspect the info is shared with much more entities than just paying "marketers".
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel
Don't tell me that you really believe Google has mapped, 3-D mapped, and street viewed virtually the entire planet; bought out YouTube; maintains Google Library, etc., just off Website-click ads and sponsored search query fees?
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
The privacy issue is what I loathe about the Defense Resolution Organizations in anarchy. Best I can tell, privacy is abandoned by the DRO.
It's dispute resolution, not defense.
Beyond what is already understood to be reasonably included in property rights and voluntary contracts (such as NDAs), what other privacy is expected, exactly?
Would you agree that as technology evolves, reasonable expectations of 'privacy', however arbitrarily defined, with exception to the aforementioned, tend to diminish?
Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard
Just do what I do. If a site is demanding my phone number and I **KNOW** they won't have any legitimate reason to call me, I enter:
800-555-1212
Computers are stupid. To them, one set of digits is as good as another!
You know that you can make a phony gmail and google + account, right? Like, they don't actually have to be linked to YOU.
It was a long time ago when I created my gmail accounts but I'm pretty sure I had to validate them by using my phone. Maybe it's changed since then?
What exactly is a "phony" account?
They are linked to your IP and MAC addresses on your computer and other identifying info if you use it on a phone, unless you're savvy enough to use a proxy. Most are not and Im not sure whether you can even use proxies on cell phones.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
It will still be linked and cross-referenced to every computer used by those accounts, which also provides Google with your locale.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
No, they just bought out companies who did. Google Maps came from Keyhole, which kinda was a spy satellite, but the data was public- people just didn't know about it. Google Groups came from them acquiring the orgs who hosted the Usenet archives. Just about all their services were previously known under other names. For a time in the early 2000's, a company's whole business model could revolve around growing enough to get bought by Google.
But the comment was about the creation of Google and Facebook, which were both known by other names, and whose origins are in the public domain, just like Keyhole data was.
Either way, Google was running Google Maps long before its 3-D and street views were made available, and Google Cars started collecting Wi-Fi data from all everywhere in the process. And now their newest feats: Google Cloud, Google Chauffeur and Google Glasses.
These companies all connect back to government intel and DARPA.
Facebook from its beginnings connects to Paypal, and Accel Partners, which links back to In-Q-Tel.
Last edited by Weston White; 02-19-2014 at 02:02 AM.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
I hated it when it messed around with youtube.
The cars were taking pictures for street view. They weren't going out to specifically get data from access points, but wifi protocols are chatty, so that stuff made it into their logs. They could have filtered once they realized what they were getting, but they kept it, and probably kept collecting it. Besides the cars, they were paying people to send pictures for street view. And mom-and-pop businesses had an incentive to submit photos and street views of their locations, because it was getting them well-placed in local search.
So then do your cell-phones, Smart TV, wireless router, as well as the wireless features of your automobile do this as well? That reasoning makes zero sense. For one you do not need to access wireless data to take photographs or to update GPS positions, and for another if it was just a case of getting into their logs by accident, it would have corrupted them with a flood of erroneous data making their work completely useless. The only way for them to collect that data in the first place would have been to have been running an autonomous program designed to seek out and capture specific data being made available through the unsecured connections.
Also In-Q-Tel seems to have come out of the closet, admitting their connection outright (https://www.iqt.org/):
The IQT Mission
We identify, adapt, and deliver innovative technology solutions to support the missions of the Central Intelligence Agency and broader U.S. Intelligence Community.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
What difference does it make when they get your IP address and every site you visit? They dont give a $#@! what a persons name is, what they do care is that a persons behavior, when linkable across multiple sources, becomes the persons unique identifier in and of itself.
Now, if the Fed Gov was as efficient and adept as Google is, we should be beyond scared. Of course, its also why the Govt goes after Google for their info.
Youre probably more technically savvy than 99% of the people on the planet. Think of what chances they have of protecting their privacy?
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
Yes, all those devices do the same thing. That's how they can have the little icons poop up that tell you wireless networks are available. The first time I saw wifi packets on a packet sniffer, it made me want to set it up on a laptop and drive around town. Then, on road trips, I would leave one running to see if I could get back to my machine at home solely by hopping from one access point to the next. I didn't do it because I wanted to take over the world, I did it because it was damn interesting at the time.
And many have back doors built in for the NSA. But thats also off topic from Google tracking. Point is, people are not given the choice to not be tracked, sign up or use technology or not.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
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