Keystone Pipeline

[Danke]

Mexico has no refineries, Colombia has no refineries, Venezuela has no refineries...

What is the reason more oil producing countries don't have refineries?

[eduardo89]

What is the reason more oil producing countries don't have refineries?

$$$$

PS: Colombia has refineries, but they don't refine oil.

[osan]

The Keystone Pipeline never seems to come up here. But other Republicans always want to talk about it. Do people here have any thoughts about it or care either way?

I know it's mainly just a talking point. But it seems like we ought to have something to contribute to the discussion.

Two words.

Eminent.

Domain.

[fr33]

I've been run over by the eminent domain monster several times. None of them were quite as big as the Keystone project though. All you can do is hire a lawyer and fight for more money but you won't get nearly what you want. There's no stopping it. They'll screw up your property and ruin the topsoil for years to come. It's not your property though. You're just renting it. It's theirs.

[fr33]

I heard a story the other day about Keystone. Down by Houston it's already in place. Hell, down there they've got all kinds of pipelines to the refineries. Anyways, a property owner was offered about 100k at first. He fought for more and instead his property was condemned and he got about 1/4 of the original offer. I can't prove it happened. Just what I was told. My experience is that you can get a little more than what they initially offer if you fight it in the courts.

[Christian Liberty]

Sometimes I wish more people would go the "sovereign citizen" route and do to the statist armed robbers what they would do to any other robber who tried to steal their land...

[ILUVRP]

Why would there be less supply? That makes absolutely no sense. How would expanding an existing pipeline, therefore making delivering oil to the refineries quicker, cheaper, and safer somehow reduce supply of gasoline?

the refiners can only refine so much oil/tar sands , the refined tar sands will be shipped out of the country , the refiners are exporting 117 million gallons of gasoline now and that will go on . less refined gasoline for america , up goes the price / gal

any excess US oil will be stored in okla.

let canada ( which i like very much ) build a refiner in ND or even canada .

how can this be so hard to understand .

[eduardo89]

the refiners can only refine so much oil/tar sands , the refined tar sands will be shipped out of the country , the refiners are exporting 117 million gallons of gasoline now and that will go on . less refined gasoline for america , up goes the price / gal

any excess US oil will be stored in okla.

let canada ( which i like very much ) build a refiner in ND or even canada .

how can this be so hard to understand .

What makes you so certain that the refined tar sands will be shipped out of the country instead of replacing other refined imports?

[ILUVRP]

i hate to put up links but this one is right on . if everyone would read it it may help .


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ugWynueEwBRIvQ

[eduardo89]

i hate to put up links but this one is right on . if everyone would read it it may help .


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ugWynueEwBRIvQ

Midwest refineries won't necessarily see reductions in deliver of tar sand oils. The proposed expansion of the existing Keystone pipeline is to add additional capacity because of the increased production of Albertan tar sand oils, not to divert existing production.

[erowe1]

What makes you so certain that the refined tar sands will be shipped out of the country instead of replacing other refined imports?

I still don't see why it matters if they will be shipped out of the country.

Is the idea that we should mentally bracket off that specific oil and the specific gasoline that's made from it and say that in order for us to benefit from it it has to be the case that the gasoline we buy is that same gasoline and not other gasoline from somewhere else? Am I missing something?

[eduardo89]

I still don't see why it matters if they will be shipped out of the country.

Is the idea that we should mentally bracket off that specific oil and the specific gasoline that's made from it and say that in order for us to benefit from it it has to be the case that the gasoline we buy is that same gasoline and not other gasoline from somewhere else? Am I missing something?

I don't see a problem with it being shipped abroad either, I'm just poking holes in the arguments made by "ILUVRP" when he says that pumping more oil to American refineries, more cheaply, more safely, and from a consistent and stable source will decrease availability of oil for American refineries and/or increase gasoline prices.

[erowe1]

i hate to put up links but this one is right on . if everyone would read it it may help .


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ugWynueEwBRIvQ

You think that one is right on?

It's blatantly pushing a leftist agenda. Do you have anything better?

[eduardo89]

You think that one is right on?

It's blatantly pushing a leftist agenda. Do you have anything better?

Yeah, especially this line:

Tar sand oil may be the worst environmental disaster mankind has ever unleashed on his fellow citizens and the world.

[ILUVRP]

You think that one is right on?

It's blatantly pushing a leftist agenda. Do you have anything better?

everyone has their own agenda , we will see when the price of gasoline goes to $3.75-4.25

[erowe1]

everyone has their own agenda , we will see when the price of gasoline goes to $3.75-4.25

So then you don't have any decent sources? Just that progressive rag?

[ILUVRP]

So then you don't have any decent sources? Just that progressive rag?

picked this up from a fox ( neo ) site .

HIGHER FUEL PRICES IN 15 STATES

According to TransCanada, KXL will increase the price of heavy crude oil in the Midwest by almost $2 to $4 billion annually, and escalating for several years. It will do this by diverting major volumes of Tar Sands oil now supplying the Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the Midwest could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel, adding up to $5 billion to the annual US fuel bill. Further, the KXL pipeline will do nothing to insulate the US from oil price volatility.

Even one year of fuel price increases as a result of KXL could cancel out some or all of the jobs created by KXL, based on the (more accurate) $3 to 4 billion budget for KXL (the remaining cost to build within the Us). Higher fuel prices due to KXL would have broad adverse impacts. Gasoline is a significant cost for most Americans, and especially for those with lower incomes and/or residing in rural areas. Moreover, refined oil products (notably gasoline and diesel) are very widely used throughout the economy (especially in agriculture and commercial transportation). So higher fuel prices due to KXL would ripple through the economy and impact a very broad range of people and businesses.

[erowe1]

picked this up from a fox ( neo ) site .

HIGHER FUEL PRICES IN 15 STATES

According to TransCanada, KXL will increase the price of heavy crude oil in the Midwest by almost $2 to $4 billion annually, and escalating for several years. It will do this by diverting major volumes of Tar Sands oil now supplying the Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the Midwest could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel, adding up to $5 billion to the annual US fuel bill. Further, the KXL pipeline will do nothing to insulate the US from oil price volatility.

Even one year of fuel price increases as a result of KXL could cancel out some or all of the jobs created by KXL, based on the (more accurate) $3 to 4 billion budget for KXL (the remaining cost to build within the Us). Higher fuel prices due to KXL would have broad adverse impacts. Gasoline is a significant cost for most Americans, and especially for those with lower incomes and/or residing in rural areas. Moreover, refined oil products (notably gasoline and diesel) are very widely used throughout the economy (especially in agriculture and commercial transportation). So higher fuel prices due to KXL would ripple through the economy and impact a very broad range of people and businesses.

A Fox (neo) site?

What does that even mean?

I checked and the quote you gave came from a study by the Cornell Global Labor Institute, a labor union support organization.
http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallab..._Reportpdf.pdf
https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globalla...out/index.html

Admittedly, that's an improvement. So thanks.

[ILUVRP]

i gave up on fox news when they did not support ron paul for potus .

[erowe1]

i gave up on fox news when they did not support ron paul for potus .

I was never a fan of theirs to begin with. But that's not going to make me swing over to something like Consumer Watchdog and pretend it's any better.