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Thread: Minimum Wage

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    If someone proposed have lower minimum wages for certain ages or groups, or even better no minimum wage at all for those people than I would support it. I would not support a minimum wage rate going up as some index of money printing went up.
    Wait a minute! I may need to take back the rep I gave you.

    I don't like the idea of different laws for different people. If we have to suffer at the hands of government we should suffer equally. That makes it more likely the law will be repealed if we all have to live by it, especially congress. A similar example is the progressive income tax. I think it should be the same rate for everybody. Otherwise you get favored classes of people. "Who cares if we raise taxes on the evil rich, it doesn't affect me!"

    We should not a have a minimum wage (NO BRAINER!!) , but if we do it should be applied to everyone. Maybe if Congress wasn't exempt and had to pay their interns the minimum wage they'd get rid of it.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Wait a minute! I may need to take back the rep I gave you.

    I don't like the idea of different laws for different people. If we have to suffer at the hands of government we should suffer equally. That makes it more likely the law will be repealed if we all have to live by it, especially congress. A similar example is the progressive income tax. I think it should be the same rate for everybody. Otherwise you get favored classes of people. "Who cares if we raise taxes on the evil rich, it doesn't affect me!"

    We should not a have a minimum wage (NO BRAINER!!) , but if we do it should be applied to everyone. Maybe if Congress wasn't exempt and had to pay their interns the minimum wage they'd get rid of it.
    How old are you? It sounds like you are afraid it will get raised for others, but not for you.

    This would not be terribly unfair. Everyone ages. You would hit the highest minimum rate after a couple of years. And it would actually be more inline with traditional and free market economics. Pay increases with experience. Unskilled labor has traditionally been performed more by the young. If you have skills that demand more pay, the minimum wage isn't an issue anyway.

    Part of the problem with the mindset behind minimum wage is this idea that a 15 yo needs to be paid a "living wage" on their first day of flipping burgers. That is contrary to free market economics.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Wait a minute! I may need to take back the rep I gave you.

    I don't like the idea of different laws for different people. If we have to suffer at the hands of government we should suffer equally. That makes it more likely the law will be repealed if we all have to live by it, especially congress. A similar example is the progressive income tax. I think it should be the same rate for everybody. Otherwise you get favored classes of people. "Who cares if we raise taxes on the evil rich, it doesn't affect me!"

    We should not a have a minimum wage (NO BRAINER!!) , but if we do it should be applied to everyone. Maybe if Congress wasn't exempt and had to pay their interns the minimum wage they'd get rid of it.
    Basically the exemption from minimum wage laws applies to people who also work for tips- it is assumed that the tips will bring their wages up to the minimum (and if they are good, above). Mostly restaraunt workers.

    Just for some basic info, about half of all workers are paid hourly (the rest are on salaries). Of those, about six percent currently are paid the Federal Minimum Wage or less (includes those exempted above like waiters). That means that about three percent of all workers get paid a federally set minimum wage. It should be noted that many states have higher minimum wages than the Federal one so the percent working for what would be minimum wage in their state would be higher (but probably not above ten percent).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-30-2014 at 06:54 PM.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Wait a minute! I may need to take back the rep I gave you.

    I don't like the idea of different laws for different people. If we have to suffer at the hands of government we should suffer equally. That makes it more likely the law will be repealed if we all have to live by it, especially congress. A similar example is the progressive income tax. I think it should be the same rate for everybody. Otherwise you get favored classes of people. "Who cares if we raise taxes on the evil rich, it doesn't affect me!"

    We should not a have a minimum wage (NO BRAINER!!) , but if we do it should be applied to everyone. Maybe if Congress wasn't exempt and had to pay their interns the minimum wage they'd get rid of it.
    I like the way you think. But we have that now and nothings changing people are calling for it to be raised. Im viewing it as Rothbard did. If we can at least get some people out of the governments reins then all the better. Things like tax deductions and loopholes come to mind. I understand both sides of the coin.

  7. #35
    If they keep raising the minimum wage, McDonald's is going to have more and more automated tellers taking our orders - cutting jobs / costs will not help the poor!

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter4Paul2016 View Post
    If they keep raising the minimum wage, McDonald's is going to have more and more automated tellers taking our orders - cutting jobs / costs will not help the poor!
    I've been in travel plazas where the order was placed on computer, but still cooked by humans and I paid a human cashier. I think the threat of automation is slightly exaggerated.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I've been in travel plazas where the order was placed on computer, but still cooked by humans and I paid a human cashier. I think the threat of automation is slightly exaggerated.
    Once the cost of labor gets high enough, the cooking can be done by machines too.
    http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/mee...rgers-per-hour

  10. #38
    Okay, I'll be impressed when the entire Cow to Burger process can be done a robot that serves up the freshest killed burgers possible.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    However, in a dishonest system of fiat currency where the privileged few get to print however much currency they want, then it seems to me that they should be forced to pay higher wages.
    The problem is that the first "they" (the priveleged few who control the levers on the money supply) and the second "they" (the employers who would be forced to pay higher wages) are not the same people. You would be forcing the latter group to pay for the excesses of the former. Employers further down the chain of Cantillon effects (i.e., the vast majority of employers) are victimized just as much by wage controls as their employees are, albeit in different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I support Congress , Senate , Pres being pd median income as salary. It is supposed to be public servant work .
    Ah, but who gets to define just what the median income is? Who gets to decide which statistics "count" for determining median income and which do not?

    They'll just adulterate median income stats the same way they've adulterated price inflation & CPI stats.

    I'll bet you FRNs to Big Macs that the median income would start "rising" (according to them) soon after any such plan was put into effect ...
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  12. #40
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 05-01-2016 at 11:23 AM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    On moral grounds, yes. However, it is already established so I say raise it to $25/hr and let everyone see just how destructive market manipulation can be to the economy. Plus, the Austrians would start sounding compassionate. Win/Win.
    If destruction of this sham of system is the goal, might as well support open borders, welfare, pork barrel spending, etc.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    What a $10.10 minimum wage looks like:
    That might save a grocery store money, but not because of minimum wage. The vast majority of grocery store cashiers make more than $10.10/hr. I believe the national average is around $15/hr.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  16. #43
    I don't like self check-out usually. I would rather support a person working.

  17. #44
    Hm, I can hire a crappy 18 year old employee for $9.00 per hour, or i can hire a crappy 30 year old employee for $10.00 who has this so called "experience" that people on here seem to believe has something to do with how much an employee is worth. If they are going to work 1000 hours in a year, you would be adding $1000 or more to the payroll for the older employee simply because some fools from the government say to do that. Having a progressive minimum wage would do nothing but create more wage differences based on age, but this time probably in the opposite direction from what it currently is.

    No, age and experience have nothing to do with the quality of an employee and determining how much they should be paid. We have an employee who is young and is an excellent employee. If we give her a raise to the same level as the older employee because that is what we determined she is worth compared to what she could be making at her minimum wage level, why should she be earning the same amount as the older employee who is not as good? That is just more unfairness in the work places perpetrated by the government and doesn't improve the situation at all.
    No more IRS.
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  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by 2young2vote View Post
    Hm, I can hire a crappy 18 year old employee for $9.00 per hour, or i can hire a crappy 30 year old employee for $10.00 who has this so called "experience" that people on here seem to believe has something to do with how much an employee is worth. If they are going to work 1000 hours in a year, you would be adding $1000 or more to the payroll for the older employee simply because some fools from the government say to do that. Having a progressive minimum wage would do nothing but create more wage differences based on age, but this time probably in the opposite direction from what it currently is.

    No, age and experience have nothing to do with the quality of an employee and determining how much they should be paid. We have an employee who is young and is an excellent employee. If we give her a raise to the same level as the older employee because that is what we determined she is worth compared to what she could be making at her minimum wage level, why should she be earning the same amount as the older employee who is not as good? That is just more unfairness in the work places perpetrated by the government and doesn't improve the situation at all.
    Not sure what you are saying with your examples here.

    What wage differences exist now and what would this create?

    As for the girl, a good worker should make more than a bad worker. Minimum wage is a minimum. It's not a forced or fixed wage. Why not pay the girl more than the older worker?

    Yes, if you are an employer, and it is a low skill job, hire a teenager if you can find a good worker who wants to work at that rate. Why would you hire a 30 year old for that type of job, if there are better employee available at a lower wage?

    Great employees can demand greater pay than minimum wage no matter how old they are. Minimum wage is just a minimum, not fixed pay or price fixing.

    It sounds like you want minimum wage to be a way for government to enforce equal pay for equal work.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I don't like self check-out usually. I would rather support a person working.
    I don use them that often, but my experience is about a third of the time something goes wrong requiring the person to come over and fix it. In California, some things can't be purchased with the self check machines.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I don't like self check-out usually. I would rather support a person working.
    I've never used the self check-out myself. But when the minimum wage goes up to a certain point (where it costs more to keep cashiers on the payroll than they are worth to the employer), the machines will become the norm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
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  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    If destruction of this sham of system is the goal, might as well support open borders, welfare, pork barrel spending, etc.
    I do support all of that. They do it anyway. The more the merrier. Let's get this sham overwith.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The problem is that the first "they" (the priveleged few who control the levers on the money supply) and the second "they" (the employers who would be forced to pay higher wages) are not the same people. You would be forcing the latter group to pay for the excesses of the former. Employers further down the chain of Cantillon effects (i.e., the vast majority of employers) are victimized just as much by wage controls as their employees are, albeit in different ways.
    In the current system, "they" are one and the same. The Pilgrims.
    Its purpose is to foster better Anglo-American relationships through cooperation of top banking and manufacturing institutions.
    And government.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    I do support all of that. They do it anyway. The more the merrier. Let's get this sham overwith.
    I agree with you.

  25. #51
    Good to see you cowboys come to an agreement.

  26. #52
    I never use a self checkout, I just leave if I see that $#@! . It never works and is useless .I do not need the aggravation .

  27. #53
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
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  28. #54
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I never use a self checkout, I just leave if I see that $#@! . It never works and is useless .I do not need the aggravation .
    If I see a self checkout that is open, I always go there first. I'm much faster than some idiot cashier. Of course, if there are people in line for the self checkout, I might as well wait for a cashier, because the typical idiot shopper is much slower.

  30. #56
    I think Minimum Wage is only ever really needed where a truly Free Market is repressed. Minimum Wage really causes more problems than it solves. For one, it tells both the Employers and Workers what a "reasonable wage" is for whatever the job itself entails, be it a low skill job or a high skill job. For smaller businesses, it can often mean less total jobs in order to pay for those who that small company decides to keep. Minimum Wage is another "good intentioned" socialist solution when a lack of Free Market solutions is never sought. Offer to pay a doctor 5 bucks an hour and see how many doctors are beating down your door to work for you. Pretty soon tho, taking those 5 dollar an hour jobs will be mandatory at the rate we are heading. If jobs dont pay enough, then people should walk away from them.
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  32. #57
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  33. #58
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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