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Thread: 85 richest people in the world worth as much as bottom 1/2

  1. #31
    Shouldn't business be able to pay as little as possible to workers? (which leaves maximum profits and money to them- the controllers of capital)? That encourges income disparity.
    That quote should be attributed to Zippyjuan. I never asked those questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post

    Yes, they should. However, the amount of capital they have obtained is, point-blank, impossible without the State. The State is the greatest source of severely lopsided income disparity by virtue of tampering with the market (picking winners and losers, setting up barriers to market entry and therefore making wage slaves of everyone - notice how the discussion about the economy centers around "job creation" implicates that the most people can aspire to is simply having a job provided by some business). Never mind the banks creating a system in which, by design, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Competing currencies would go a long, long way in undermining those that obtained their "wealth" through the rigged game. The understanding of propety rights needs to change too, far too much land is "owned" by the wealthy, yet NOTHING is done with it. This should have never been permissible, it is illogical. The poor could very well use that land by mixing labor with it and creating their own opportunities. $#@! wage slavery and a system designed to keep it that way.
    However, I disagree that "the State is the greatest source of severely lopsided income disparity by virtue of tampering with the market..." I understand that they play a role, but IMO the greatest source of severely lopsided income disparity is brought to us by the counterfeiting antics of the Pilgrim Society. I don't consider them part of the State because they are above the law. They make money by counterfeiting it. Counterfeiting pays big bucks and so does a war economy and construction rebuilding.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    The main problem with discussions about "income disparity" is that they almost invariably act as a preface to discussions about how government can intervene to correct the "problem" rather than discussions about how government corruption created the situation in the first place.
    ...
    Much better to focus on the crony-captialism that has created some of the income disparity because you can get much more agreement on it and it is closer to the root of the problem.
    Exactly. How are they getting the money is the relevant question. Is it legal, or is it ill-gotten?

    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Counterfeiting pays big bucks.
    That's probably the biggest reason.

    Deal debt to governments, take a nice cut, taxpayers or money printing pays it back. Your wealth is directly proportional to the debt of nations.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    http://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pr...or-rich-elites



    They don't give names but since when are there trillionaires? 110 trillion / 85 = a handful of very wealthy folks. I know Forbes doesn't list royalty in their lists so perhaps queen of england, some saudi arabian people, brunai perhaps?
    You're mixing two different statistics. It doesn't say 85 people own $110 Trillion. It says 1% of the world's families own $110 Trillion.

  6. #34
    As for the OP, what these rich people are doing is not "undermining democracy." They're using democracy for precisely the ends that it naturally serves. Democracy is the friend, not the enemy, of the rich and powerful who want to be able to use their wealth and power to move governments in ways that favor them.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    I have no problem at all with even the wildest income disparity. I DO have a problem with crony-capitalism,
    Exactly- I feel the same.
    There is no spoon.

  8. #36
    I know! Let's go after the 85 and plunder their wealth!!! Oh wait.... thought I was on Democratic Underground for a sec....

    /sarc
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  9. #37
    Scott Horton interviews Bob Murphy about this: http://scotthorton.org/interviews/20...bert-p-murphy/

    MP3 file: http://dissentradio.com/radio/14_01_23_murphy.mp3

    01/23/14 Robert P. Murphy

    Robert P. Murphy, author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism, discusses the incredible wealth possessed by the 85 richest people on the planet; Bill Gates’ proclamation that there will be no more poor nations; and the bubbles in real estate, stocks, and the dollar itself.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Counterfeiting pays big bucks. Unlimited money.

    The Pilgrim Society
    Buy Bitcoin so you can enjoy some of their wealth transfered back to you.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by CT4Liberty View Post
    The writer of this article seems to lack simple math skills...

    1 - 1% of the worlds population is not 85 people, its 70 million.
    2 - They claim those 85 people have amassed 1.7 trillion, then say the total net worth of the world is 110 trillion...Im no math major (oh wait, I was) but 110 / 2 != 1.7

    Seems to me, this is more of a hit piece to further drive a wedge between an elite few and the masses... I just wish people would care less about what someone else has and care more about making sure they have a shot to better themselves.

    "Dont hate the player, hate the game"
    1% of the world's population is indeed not 85 people.
    But the top 85 people have more than the bottom half.
    That of course, does not mean the top 85 people have half of the world's wealth.

    Seems as though the person is conflating and confusing dollars with people.

  12. #40
    Maybe that top 85 should take all of the rest of us out to lunch.



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  14. #41
    This is supposed to be a bad thing, I guess. What's lost is that that bottom 50% is becoming wealthier and wealthier! Global poverty is being eradicated. The percentage of truly impoverished people is going down and down and down, very rapidly. Recently, even the absolute number of poor in the world went down! This is astonishing! Why does this not make news or get talked about more? This is a far more important and far-reaching development, to me. The fate of the vast majority of humans for at least the last several thousand years is becoming a thing of the past. Poverty is being vanquished.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Xar View Post
    would be good to have a breakdown of their political leanings.
    As Doug Wead says, they are bisexual. Give money to Repubs and Dems at the same time. One of them will win, and down the road of corporate welfare we go.
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  16. #43
    You will find that most corporations do just that- contribute to both sides to hedge their bets.

  17. #44
    Aside from the money I wonder what they are really like.

    Can they just hang out? Maybe take a walk sometime?


    Could they just walk away?

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You will find that most corporations do just that- contribute to both sides to hedge their bets.
    you mean like how bankers financed both sides of a war?

  19. #46
    Oxfam report says the contrast is even starker. Just eight men own as m much wealth as half the world population: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...01-15-19-02-51



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...rest-half-worl
    Last edited by AZJoe; 01-17-2017 at 03:42 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  20. #47
    Was kind of surprised to see Bloomberg in The Eight. I knew he was a billionaire as mayor of Gotham, but didn't realize his wealth had balooned to 40b FRNs.

    http://noticingnewyork.blogspot.com/...al-wealth.html

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Oxfam report says the contrast is even starker. Just eight men own as m much wealth as half the world population: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...01-15-19-02-51



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...rest-half-worl
    What? No Donald Trump? This election is rigged! I demand a recount! More Fake News!



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What? No Donald Trump? This election is rigged! I demand a recount! More Fake News!
    Hehe, the least wealthy guy is worth 40b. Trump's bush-league compared to these guys.

    I wonder what %age of their wealth is on paper vs hard assets???

    Carlos Slim is apparently the majority shareholder in the New York Times Co. No conflict of interest there...

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Oxfam report says the contrast is even starker. Just eight men own as m much wealth as half the world population: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...01-15-19-02-51



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...rest-half-worl
    Can you imagine anybody having an argument with any of these guys? Sir, yes sir!

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Exactly. How are they getting the money is the relevant question. Is it legal, or is it ill-gotten?
    Or more specifically, was it thru voluntary transactions or theft? If they made their wealth thru voluntary transactions (capitalism) that's a good thing. If they made it thru legalized theft (socialism) that's a bad thing.

    Also wealth is dynamic not static. People that get rich in a capitalistic society grow the pie. They don't take wealth from the poor.
    Last edited by Madison320; 01-17-2017 at 02:34 PM.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    If they made their wealth thru voluntary transactions (capitalism) that's a good thing. If they made it thru legalized theft (socialism) that's a bad thing.
    To be even more specific, voluntary transactions can also be theft or fraud.

    If Goldman Sachs sells you a supposed 1 pound brick of gold, and it is certified authentic by the S&P assay office, but in reality they colluded to sell you a gilded tungsten brick, that is theft.

    Now when they government bails them out after everyone finds out there is fraud, that is a secondary theft.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    To be even more specific, voluntary transactions can also be theft or fraud.

    If Goldman Sachs sells you a supposed 1 pound brick of gold, and it is certified authentic by the S&P assay office, but in reality they colluded to sell you a gilded tungsten brick, that is theft.

    Now when they government bails them out after everyone finds out there is fraud, that is a secondary theft.
    Or if an airline sells you a ticket for a seat that does not exist?

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by buck000 View Post
    Hehe, the least wealthy guy is worth 40b. Trump's bush-league compared to these guys.

    I wonder what %age of their wealth is on paper vs hard assets???

    Carlos Slim is apparently the majority shareholder in the New York Times Co. No conflict of interest there...
    When you have tens of $billions you have shares in probably just about every publicly traded company. (Carlos Slim owns 17% of the New York Times- a minority amount https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...cising-options ).

    Even with the bigger stake, a takeover would be difficult because the controlling owners -- the Ochs-Sulzberger family -- hold voting shares that give them a firm grip on board seats. Slim’s stake only allows him to vote for Class A directors, a group that represents no more than a third of the company’s board seats. The family’s Class B shares, which aren’t publicly traded, elect the remaining two-thirds of the board.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-17-2017 at 06:07 PM.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Or more specifically, was it thru voluntary transactions or theft? If they made their wealth thru voluntary transactions (capitalism) that's a good thing. If they made it thru legalized theft (socialism) that's a bad thing.

    Also wealth is dynamic not static. People that get rich in a capitalistic society grow the pie. They don't take wealth from the poor.
    That is what Peter Thiel always says...capitalism isn't a system the rich like. Because real capitalism, over the long run, cycles back profits to the customers. The process fuels technological innovations and increases the standard of living for everyone.

    But somewhere down the line, a capitalist will realize it is more profitable to break the system; it provides a much higher return than playing the game. So they engage in regulatory capture, defraud their customers, use propaganda to trick their customers (who generally are not very bright), grow government and use it as a pulpit against their competitors, etc.

    It isn't a bug, it is a feature. When breaking the system is so easy and fruitful, the long-term trend will be just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Or if an airline sells you a ticket for a seat that does not exist?
    I would argue that fraud has only been committed when you are denied boarding.

    If they can convince you to take another flight, then no fraud has been committed.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyJ View Post
    It conflicts with nothing, you just have either a reading comprehension problem and/or are mathematically challenged.

    ZippyJuan is being his usual, progressive, liberal, and Hillary supporting self.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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  32. #57
    Its strange... How people view wealth.

    Ironically, I've only watched about 4 min of this guy's content in my life - but this video caught my eye. He's really vulgar and NSFW or the kids.

    This guy makes amature youtube videos, some of them are him playing video games, and he gets ~$1,000,000 per month. Of course, people watch and value this stuff - much like facebook, I cant understand why. Regardless, I dont hate the guy - it just makes me wonder what is wrong with people.

    @8:00 -- he has an interesting response to some of his viewers


    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



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