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Thread: 85 richest people in the world worth as much as bottom 1/2

  1. #1

    85 richest people in the world worth as much as bottom 1/2

    http://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pr...or-rich-elites

    Wealthy elites have co-opted political power to rig the rules of the economic game, undermining democracy and creating a world where the 85 richest people own the wealth of half of the world’s population, worldwide development organization Oxfam warns in a report published today.
    They don't give names but since when are there trillionaires? 110 trillion / 85 = a handful of very wealthy folks. I know Forbes doesn't list royalty in their lists so perhaps queen of england, some saudi arabian people, brunai perhaps?
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq



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  3. #2
    Counterfeiting pays big bucks. Unlimited money.

    The Pilgrim Society
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  4. #3
    Because every person who has a dollar took that dollar from someone who deserves it.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Because every person who has a dollar took that dollar from someone who deserves it.
    A dollar was defined by the Coinage Act in 1792 as 371.25 ounces of pure silver. Are you referring to a "dollar" or a FRN?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    http://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pr...or-rich-elites



    They don't give names but since when are there trillionaires? 110 trillion / 85 = a handful of very wealthy folks. I know Forbes doesn't list royalty in their lists so perhaps queen of england, some saudi arabian people, brunai perhaps?
    That $110 trillion is the amount held not by the Top 85 but the Top One Percent (of families) according to the article. With a world population of seven billion, that would mean the 7 million wealthiest have that much wealth. But this seems to conflict with their claim that 85 people have half the wealth.

    This capture of opportunities by the rich at the expense of the poor and middle classes has helped create a situation where seven out of every ten people in the world live in countries where inequality has increased since the 1980s and one per cent of the world’s families now own 46% of its wealth ($110 trillion).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-21-2014 at 12:54 PM.

  7. #6
    [QUOTE=Zippyjuan;5382457]That $110 trillion is the amount held not by the Top 85 but the Top One Percent (of families) according to the article. With a world population of seven billion, that would mean the 7 million wealthiest have that much wealth. But this seems to conflict with their claim that 85 people have half the wealth.

    This capture of opportunities by the rich at the expense of the poor and middle classes has helped create a situation where seven out of every ten people in the world live in countries where inequality has increased since the 1980s and one per cent of the world’s families now own 46% of its wealth ($110 trillion).[/QUOTE]
    This is entirely unnatural.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That $110 trillion is the amount held not by the Top 85 but the Top One Percent (of families) according to the article. With a world population of seven billion, that would mean the 7 million wealthiest have that much wealth. But this seems to conflict with their claim that 85 people have half the wealth.

    This capture of opportunities by the rich at the expense of the poor and middle classes has helped create a situation where seven out of every ten people in the world live in countries where inequality has increased since the 1980s and one per cent of the world’s families now own 46% of its wealth ($110 trillion).
    It conflicts with nothing, you just have either a reading comprehension problem and/or are mathematically challenged. They never claimed that the 85 richest people have half the world's wealth but rather that they have the same amount of wealth as the poorest 50 percent of the world combined.

  9. #8
    Sorry Oxfam.org, I have no envy or pity left in me, nice try though.

    Why should I care? (I don't even know who the heck Thucydides is)
    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21103303255207

    ---

    OK, I just looked him up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides



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  11. #9
    would be good to have a breakdown of their political leanings.

  12. #10
    [QUOTE=Travlyr;5382488]
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That $110 trillion is the amount held not by the Top 85 but the Top One Percent (of families) according to the article. With a world population of seven billion, that would mean the 7 million wealthiest have that much wealth. But this seems to conflict with their claim that 85 people have half the wealth.



    This is entirely unnatural.
    Shouldn't business be able to pay as little as possible to workers? (which leaves maximum profits and money to them- the controllers of capital)? That encourges income disparity.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyJ View Post
    It conflicts with nothing, you just have either a reading comprehension problem and/or are mathematically challenged. They never claimed that the 85 richest people have half the world's wealth but rather that they have the same amount of wealth as the poorest 50 percent of the world combined.
    Thank you for clarifying.

  14. #12
    These days, there's the rich - who work and earn their money. And there is the uber, super human rich - who are part of a military/counter fitting empire and ARE getting their money through mass scale theft.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Because every person who has a dollar took that dollar from someone who deserves it.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  15. #13
    [QUOTE=Zippyjuan;5383388]
    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post

    Shouldn't business be able to pay as little as possible to workers? (which leaves maximum profits and money to them- the controllers of capital)? That encourges income disparity.
    I would like to see a tax system with economic policies that are beneficial to those who save or invest and I would include paying workers decent wages an investment.

    The closest thing I've come to for this is The X Tax geared toward taxing consumption rather than income.

  16. #14
    [QUOTE=VIDEODROME;5383461]
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post

    I would like to see a tax system with economic policies that are beneficial to those who save or invest and I would include paying workers decent wages an investment.

    The closest thing I've come to for this is The X Tax geared toward taxing consumption rather than income.
    Consumption taxes hit lower incomes more than higher incomes since lower income people spend more of their money consuming goods and services.

  17. #15
    The X Tax is intended to be progressive to. It would be like our current system flipped around.

    Instead of paying higher taxes when you earn more, your taxes go up if you have a higher spending. A lower income individual's spending would not be as high as a very rich person, unless the rich person was pinching pennies really hard. Or.... the wealthy person was paying higher wages or otherwise shifting their money to savings or investment.

    Maybe I'm crazy, but I think this idea or variations(suggested by Robert Frank) are interesting. I'm sure there are flaws with it somewhere, but it seems better than our current system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_tax

    The X tax is an approach to taxation, suggested in the United States, that can be described as a standard European-style credit-invoice value added tax (VAT), except that wages are deducted by businesses and taxed at progressive rates to workers.[1] Businesses are taxed on gross receipts and individuals taxed on wages, with neither businesses or individuals paying tax on financial transactions or financial instruments.[1] The plan was created by Princeton University economist and New York University School of Law professor David F. Bradford.[2]
    Bradford states the X tax could alleviate the complexities and avoidance issues plaguing the existing U.S. system,[3] and argues that "the government should exempt from taxation all dividends, interest, and other income from savings. That way, people will be treated equally by the tax system, whether they choose to spend now or save to increase their future spending power."[2]

  18. #16
    Which is exactly why NO taxes is the most moral and economically justifiable policy.

    [QUOTE=Zippyjuan;5383475]
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post

    Consumption taxes hit lower incomes more than higher incomes since lower income people spend more of their money consuming goods and services.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park



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  20. #17
    I have no problem at all with even the wildest income disparity. I DO have a problem with crony-capitalism,
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  21. #18
    Would it be preferable if 1/2 of the richest people in the world were worth as much as the bottom 85?

    I suspect that some think it would be ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    I have no problem at all with even the wildest income disparity. I DO have a problem with crony-capitalism,
    Same here. While I loathe & despise those who use their positions of power and influence to enrich themselves, I have no patience with those who expect me to be "outraged" merely or solely because some people are extremely wealthy compared to many others.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  22. #19
    This is one of those things that may be deceptive, as in lies, damn lies and statistics...

    I mean, it's possible that I am worth as much as the bottom 10% of the world's population, because likely that is zero.
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    “I tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.” - Socrates

  23. #20

    85 Richest People Have Same As Poorest Half of Planet

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...p-9070714.html


    The 85 richest people on the planet have accumulated as much wealth between them as half of the world’s population, political and financial leaders have been warned ahead of their annual gathering in the Swiss resort of Davos.

    The tiny elite of multibillionaires, who could fit into a double-decker bus, have piled up fortunes equivalent to the wealth of the world’s poorest 3.5bn people, according to a new analysis by Oxfam. The charity condemned the “pernicious” impact of the steadily growing gap between a small group of the super-rich and hundreds of millions of their fellow citizens, arguing it could trigger social unrest.

    It released the research on the eve of the World Economic Forum, starting on Wednesday, which brings together many of the most influential figures in international trade, business, finance and politics including David Cameron and George Osborne. Disparities in income and wealth will be high on its agenda, along with driving up international health standards and mitigating the impact of climate change.

    Oxfam said the world’s richest 85 people boast a collective worth of $1.7trn (Ł1trn). Top of the pile is Carlos Slim Helu, the Mexican telecommunications mogul, whose family’s net wealth is estimated by Forbes business magazine at $73bn. He is followed by Bill Gates, the Microsoft founder and philanthropist, whose worth is put at $67bn and is one of 31 Americans on the list.

    Other well known names include the business magnate Warren Buffett, whose estimated worth is $53.5bn, and Larry Page, the co-founder of Google, with $23bn.

    The world’s richest woman, Liliane Bettencourt, sits on a family fortune of $30bn derived from L’Oréal, the cosmetics company. According to Forbes, the richest person in the UK (and 89th in the world) is the Duke of Westminster, whose property empire has boosted his wealth to $11.4bn.

    Oxfam calculated that almost half the world’s wealth – $110trn – is owned by just 1 per cent of its population. It said that 70 per cent of people live in countries where the gap between the rich and poor has widened in the last 30 years.

    “This massive concentration of economic resources in the hands of fewer people presents a significant threat to inclusive political and economic systems,” the charity said. “People are increasingly separated by economic and political power, inevitably heightening social tensions and increasing the risk of societal breakdown.”

    Winnie Byanyima, Oxfam’s executive director, who will attend Davos, described the gulf between sectors of society as staggering. “We cannot hope to win the fight against poverty without tackling inequality. Widening inequality is creating a vicious circle where wealth and power are increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few, leaving the rest of us to fight over crumbs from the top table,” she said.



    Oxfam is calling on the business chiefs gathering at Davos to promise to support progressive taxation and not dodge their own taxes, refrain from using their wealth to seek political favours and demand that companies they own or control pay a living wage. In a report last week the forum warned that income disparity leading to social unrest could have a significant impact on the world economy over the next 12 months.

    There was a “lost” generation of young people coming of age who lacked jobs and the skills for work, the report said. This could easily boil over into protests over inequality and corruption. Jennifer Blanke, the forum’s chief economist, said: “Disgruntlement can lead to the dissolution of the fabric of society, especially if young people feel they don’t have a future. This is something that affects everybody.”
    (Article continues on link...)
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  24. #21

  25. #22
    Sic 'em, Barry.

  26. #23
    The writer of this article seems to lack simple math skills...

    1 - 1% of the worlds population is not 85 people, its 70 million.
    2 - They claim those 85 people have amassed 1.7 trillion, then say the total net worth of the world is 110 trillion...Im no math major (oh wait, I was) but 110 / 2 != 1.7

    Seems to me, this is more of a hit piece to further drive a wedge between an elite few and the masses... I just wish people would care less about what someone else has and care more about making sure they have a shot to better themselves.

    "Dont hate the player, hate the game"

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CT4Liberty View Post
    The writer of this article seems to lack simple math skills...

    1 - 1% of the worlds population is not 85 people, its 70 million.
    2 - They claim those 85 people have amassed 1.7 trillion, then say the total net worth of the world is 110 trillion...Im no math major (oh wait, I was) but 110 / 2 != 1.7

    Seems to me, this is more of a hit piece to further drive a wedge between an elite few and the masses... I just wish people would care less about what someone else has and care more about making sure they have a shot to better themselves.

    "Dont hate the player, hate the game"
    Perhaps the 110 trillion is not identifiably owned by individuals. Just a thought.

    Thought #2, do the 85 folks include the Rothschilds?

    #3, Several years ago, someone said "We don't need more rich people, we need fewer poor people."



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CT4Liberty View Post
    The writer of this article seems to lack simple math skills...

    1 - 1% of the worlds population is not 85 people, its 70 million.
    2 - They claim those 85 people have amassed 1.7 trillion, then say the total net worth of the world is 110 trillion...Im no math major (oh wait, I was) but 110 / 2 != 1.7

    Seems to me, this is more of a hit piece to further drive a wedge between an elite few and the masses... I just wish people would care less about what someone else has and care more about making sure they have a shot to better themselves.

    "Dont hate the player, hate the game"
    Dont worry, it will all get "Reset" soon enough anyway. With a brand new game and a brand new deck, stacked and loaded, ready for the House to win again and again and again.

    The outcome of Games is determined by the way the Player interprets the rules, which ones apply to them, and which ones dont. We have enough players already cheating at the game. Sorry, but I'll hate the Cheating Players.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  30. #26
    Motherfkn Fat Cats and their corporate/government operatives.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  31. #27
    The Giving Pledge is a commitment by the world's wealthiest individuals and families to dedicate the majority of their wealth to philanthropy.

    http://givingpledge.org/index.html

  32. #28
    Counterfeiting pays big bucks.

  33. #29
    The main problem with discussions about "income disparity" is that they almost invariably act as a preface to discussions about how government can intervene to correct the "problem" rather than discussions about how government corruption created the situation in the first place. Additionally, nothing turns off the average Republican faster than talking about income disparity because they are conditioned to see their party as the party that protects those who earn their money from the "other side" that is trying to take their money and give it to the bums.

    Much better to focus on the crony-captialism that has created some of the income disparity because you can get much more agreement on it and it is closer to the root of the problem.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  34. #30
    [QUOTE=Zippyjuan;5383388]
    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post

    Shouldn't business be able to pay as little as possible to workers? (which leaves maximum profits and money to them- the controllers of capital)? That encourges income disparity.
    Yes, they should. However, the amount of capital they have obtained is, point-blank, impossible without the State. The State is the greatest source of severely lopsided income disparity by virtue of tampering with the market (picking winners and losers, setting up barriers to market entry and therefore making wage slaves of everyone - notice how the discussion about the economy centers around "job creation" implicates that the most people can aspire to is simply having a job provided by some business). Never mind the banks creating a system in which, by design, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Competing currencies would go a long, long way in undermining those that obtained their "wealth" through the rigged game. The understanding of propety rights needs to change too, far too much land is "owned" by the wealthy, yet NOTHING is done with it. This should have never been permissible, it is illogical. The poor could very well use that land by mixing labor with it and creating their own opportunities. $#@! wage slavery and a system designed to keep it that way.

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