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Thread: Honey Bee Colonies Collapsing in Europe

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Some person couple of posts claimed gmo is not natural.
    that was me

    please find a transgenetic GMO that is a result of natural mating. and remember, we are talking about the major GMO crops currently planted.
    so find something saying corn can mate with a bacteria and produce BtCorn. or how a soybean plant and bacteria can mate to produce roundup ready soy.

    angelatc can confirm that you cant get a patent on DNA that occurs naturally reference
    so if it has a patent, it cant be natural.
    Last edited by Kelly.; 01-16-2014 at 11:26 AM.



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  3. #122
    Eagles' Wings
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I am from the year 1957..
    I am saturated with Chlordane, PCBs, Dioxins, Methyl Ethel Ketones,, And a dozen other substances.
    I am a walking talking MSDS violation.
    Tobacco has to take a number and stand in line.

    There were a lot more bees when I was growing up,, I welcome the remaining ones to my trees and flowers.

    We are killing this world.
    well said, sad, plus rep

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Do you think we farmers can feed all these people with your product?
    i do think that, but i think we are a long ways off from being able to do that. i think people eating seasonally would be a big step forward with an eye towards local food security.

    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    I'm in north Texas. What store shall I shop at to find your product? There are hundreds of millions of us. We want your chicken and fruit.
    to be honest, im not interested in shipping the food i produce. im not focused on quantity, and most of my products are planted for taste/nutrition, not the ability to travel.
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    There's some truth to what you are saying about commodity farmers, especially when it concerns grain. US grain is a political tool sent across the seas to gain favor with peasants in other countries. Most grain land won't grow fruits and vegetables though. As for livestock, well it will eliminate most of the grain fields if we are to raise meat on grass to feed 300 million people. It's debatable whether if it can even be done. We'd certainly need to empty some buildings in that picture above to tend to it. But then we'd have to convince them that they aren't above such toiling.
    i agree about the grain farming. its a political tool.
    i do think there are large tracts of land that is now considered unfarmable, that can be turned into a food producing land. (have you seen 'greening the desert'?)
    i also think, if managed correctly (mimicking nature - large herds, constantly moving) we can grow a lot more beef than people think. cows can actually be used to heal the land and increase fertility, but it is a lot more management then the current set stocking and selling them off to feed lots.

    i feel like the pesticides/herbicides/fungicides/etc etc are all brute force attempts to quiet nature. i see disease and pest problems as results of framing practices, not problems to farming. like wise with antibotics in meat production - trying to quiet diseases that occur as a result of management.
    its certainly a different viewpoint then most farmers, but it seems to be working for me.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly. View Post
    that was me

    please find a transgenetic GMO that is a result of natural mating. and remember, we are talking about the major GMO crops currently planted.
    so find something saying corn can mate with a bacteria and produce BtCorn. or how a soybean plant and bacteria can mate to produce roundup ready soy.

    angelatc can confirm that you cant get a patent on DNA that occurs naturally http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?440785-The-Battle-to-Keep-GMO-Labeling-Voluntary&p=5376086&viewfull=1#post5376086
    so if it has a patent, it cant be natural.
    Well we are using two different definitions then. I don't care care if they can combine DNA from two organisms that do not mate. Un natural to me would be eating something that produces harm to my body. Anything else goes. I certainly would not be totalitarian about it and make people put up labels as if they have a bad product or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  6. #125
    Eagles' Wings
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly. View Post
    i feel like the pesticides/herbicides/fungicides/etc etc are all brute force attempts to quiet nature. i see disease and pest problems as results of framing practices, not problems to farming. like wise with antibotics in meat production - trying to quiet diseases that occur as a result of management.
    its certainly a different viewpoint then most farmers, but it seems to be working for me.
    Wish you were closer to us - do you have a csa - or sell at farm markets? Really appreciate your outlook.

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly. View Post
    i do think that, but i think we are a long ways off from being able to do that. i think people eating seasonally would be a big step forward with an eye towards local food security.


    to be honest, im not interested in shipping the food i produce. im not focused on quantity, and most of my products are planted for taste/nutrition, not the ability to travel.

    i agree about the grain farming. its a political tool.
    i do think there are large tracts of land that is now considered unfarmable, that can be turned into a food producing land. (have you seen 'greening the desert'?)
    i also think, if managed correctly (mimicking nature - large herds, constantly moving) we can grow a lot more beef than people think. cows can actually be used to heal the land and increase fertility, but it is a lot more management then the current set stocking and selling them off to feed lots.

    i feel like the pesticides/herbicides/fungicides/etc etc are all brute force attempts to quiet nature. i see disease and pest problems as results of framing practices, not problems to farming. like wise with antibotics in meat production - trying to quiet diseases that occur as a result of management.
    its certainly a different viewpoint then most farmers, but it seems to be working for me.
    I agree. I don't vaccinate any of my animals. I keep them and their environments clean, and feed them healthy food, the ones who don't free-range have spacious environments. I rarely if ever have to call the Vet out. My animals live very long lives. Granted, this is harder to do on a large scale, but the more families who attempt to grow and raise their own food, the better.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Louise View Post
    Wish you were closer to us - do you have a csa - or sell at farm markets? Really appreciate your outlook.
    we really arent big enough to do a csa. water is an issue where we are also.
    our water rights arent such that vegetable production is profitable. we have a garden large enough for us and share/sell the rest.

    we sell through a co-op. its a good group of people. the farmers market in our area takes 10%, so it not worth selling there for us. the coop and word of mouth is enough.


  9. #128
    Eagles' Wings
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    I agree. I don't vaccinate any of my animals. I keep them and their environments clean, and feed them healthy food, the ones who don't free-range have spacious environments. I rarely if ever have to call the Vet out. My animals live very long lives. Granted, this is harder to do on a large scale, but the more families who attempt to grow and raise their own food, the better.
    Bless you, Deb. So good to hear this.



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  11. #129
    Eagles' Wings
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly. View Post
    we really arent big enough to do a csa. water is an issue where we are also.
    our water rights arent such that vegetable production is profitable. we have a garden large enough for us and share/sell the rest.

    we sell through a co-op. its a good group of people. the farmers market in our area takes 10%, so it not worth selling there for us. the coop and word of mouth is enough.

    We are big supporters of smaller family co-ops like this. May you prosper in the coming years.

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Do you think we farmers can feed all these people with your product?


    Looks like a market for Soylent Green.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Looks like a market for Soylent Green.

    there is a new version of soylent:

    http://blog.soylent.me/

    there is also a video on vice.com about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    My bad! You're a farming snob.

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    I agree. I don't vaccinate any of my animals. I keep them and their environments clean, and feed them healthy food, the ones who don't free-range have spacious environments. I rarely if ever have to call the Vet out. My animals live very long lives. Granted, this is harder to do on a large scale, but the more families who attempt to grow and raise their own food, the better.
    If everyone took on a little responsibility for the food they eat and learn to become a little more rugged and self-reliant things would work a lot better.

    Being able to grown your own food and raising a small farm is very empowering.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  15. #133
    The Monsanto Honey Bee Advisory Council

    Monsanto bought up Beeologics back in 2010 or 2011 after being banned in Poland for devastating the bee population via their genetically modified corn.

    Poland Announces Complete Ban on Monsanto’s Genetically Modified Maize


    Almost immediately thereafter Monsanto purchased the Beeologics company referenced in franks paper or the op here.

    What’s more, Beelogics is recognized by the USDA, the USDA-ARS, the media, and ‘leading entomologists’ worldwide. The USDA, of course, has a great relationship with Monsanto. The government agency has gone to great lengths to ensure that Monsanto’s financial gains continue to soar, going as far as to give the company special speed approval for their newest genetically engineered seed varieties. It turns out that Monsanto was not getting quick enough approval for their crops, which have been linkedto severe organ damage and other significant health concerns.

    Steve Censky, chief executive officer of the American Soybean Association, states it quite plainly. It was a move to help Monsanto and other biotechnology giants squash competition and make profits. After all, who cares about public health?

    It is a concern from a competition standpoint,” Censky said in a telephone interview




    This aquisition was made after Poland's banning of Monsanto but also when the issues with gmo's and bee die-off wasn't well known by the general public or the world at large and certainly wasn't ever discussed in the media and this purchase placed them into a position to control the terms of controversy as we see now with this bee council nonsense.


    From their site...


    Beeologics LLC is an international firm dedicated to restoring bee health and protecting the future of honey bee pollination. Beeologics’ mission is to become the guardian of bee health worldwide.


    So...what's next? GMO bees?


    The fact that Beeologics is recognized by the USDA and given Monsanto's meddling and manipulation of government processes and infiltrating positions of authority in the past it certainly should raise some eyebrows.

    Here's some history that I had shared in the other discussion regarding the corporate meddling....



    A Monsanto official told the New York Times that the corporation should not have to take responsibility for the safety of its food products. "Monsanto should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food," said Phil Angell, Monsanto's director of corporate communications.

    "Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is the FDA's job."

    It would be nice to think the FDA can be trusted with these matters, but think again. Monsanto has succeeded in insuring that government regulatory agencies let Monsanto do as it wishes

    In order for the FDA to determine if Monsanto's growth hormones were safe or not, Monsanto was required to submit a scientific report on that topic. Margaret Miller, one of Monsanto's researchers put the report together. Shortly before the report submission, Miller left Monsanto and was hired by the FDA. Her first job for the FDA was to determine whether or not to approve the report she wrote for Monsanto. In short, Monsanto approved its own report. Assisting Miller was another former Monsanto researcher, Susan Sechen. Deciding whether or not rBGH-derived milk should be labeled fell under the jurisdiction of another FDA official, Michael Taylor, who previously worked as a lawyer for Monsanto.


    Also...just a few others on the list...

    Prior to being the Supreme Court Judge who put GW Bush in office,Clarence Thomas was Monsanto's lawyer.

    The U.S. Secretary of Agriculture (Anne Veneman) was on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Calgene Corporation.

    The Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) was on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Searle pharmaceuticals.

    The U.S. Secretary of Health, Tommy Thompson, received $50,000 in donations from Monsanto during his winning campaign for Wisconsin's governor.

    The two congressmen receiving the most donations from Monsanto during the last election were Larry Combest (Chairman of the House Agricultural Committee) and Attorney General John Ashcroft. (Source: Dairy Education Board)


    "Agricultural biotechnology will find a supporter occupying the White House next year, regardless of which candidate win the election in November" - Monsanto Inhouse Newsletter, 2000



  16. #134
    They are probably going to try to clone bee's and then patent them next.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    They are probably going to try to clone bee's and then patent them next.
    Beeologics’ mission is to become the guardian of bee health worldwide. (From their web site)


    So, in effect, Monsanto bought up the company after Poland told them to hit the bricks for destroying their bee population and before the rest of the world were privy to the issue. Now it is Beeologics (recognized by the fda, btw) doing the handy work of Monsanto and so then what we really have is Monsanto now claiming to be "the guardian of bee health worldwide"..except through the company they bought after the Poland thing.

    Now that's a tall order there though. Bees have a very intricate structure. I think all they really want to do is control the terms of controversy by creating a political illusion that they are the voice of authority here. And then we'll see the usual industry practice of spinning the research six ways from Tuesday to support their growth model while trustees in modern politics and our elected ones regurgitate market or consumption narrative all over the www and media...completely ducking and reframing the issue. Toasting super big gulps and whatnot like good little pop-up ads for the industries.

    Problem.Reaction.Solution.

    Again... Big Science: Evolution of Public Consumption
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 01-16-2014 at 11:04 PM.

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Beeologics’ mission is to become the guardian of bee health worldwide. (From their web site)

    Now that's a tall order there. Bees have a very intricate structure. I think what they want to do is control the terms of controversy by creating a political illusion that they are the voice of authority here. And then we'll see the usual industry narrative spinning the research six ways from Tuesday while trustees in modern politics regurgitate it all over the www as some kind of legitimate research leaving the terms of controversy as super big gulps and twinkies and whatnot.

    Problem.Reaction.Solution.

    Again... Big Science: Evolution of Public Consumption

    Oh definitely--good point. Foxes guarding and controlling the hen house.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    While the Liberals are busy blaming Monsanto for all the problems in the world, Monsanto thinks they may have solved the bee decline issue: Varroa Mites

    (The Varroa mite is considered to be a potential leading contributor to Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD).)

    This is the biggest joke line ever, Monsatan is out right lying and youve been sucked in LOL!

    I have had bees for a long time and dealt with varoa mites, because they did a lot of damage at one time. But just like most beekeepers I learned to live with the varoa and trachea mite. I think most beekeepers today would laugh at this statment from Monsatan! Through selective breeding the varroa mite is almost a thing of the past, bees now clean out most mites on their own. Most beekeepers that don't have hygenic bees that destroy the mites now use formic acid, which is in the honey naturally up to 4%. Formic acid is put into the hive on the top bars at a strength of 45% for 24 hours which destroys all mites as well as mites in the brood not yet hatched.

    This Bull$#@! Monsatan says about mites is nothing but a smoke screen to devert away from the real poison they put out called neonics on GMO crops.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Here's the money quote:
    Other studies, however, have suggested that the causes of CCD may be more complex, involving a combination of pesticides, parasites, and even poor nutrition.


    -> The Varroa mite is considered to be a potential leading contributor to Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD).
    I consider this as a joke line because it's so laughable, Varroa mites are old news to most beekeepers. Most beekeepers test for them and deal with them before they ever become a problem! We even have hygenic bees that seach out and destroy the varroa mite.

    Nope not a money quote but a joke, I laughed again when I seen it!

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