Is College A Scam?

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

Parts of this may sound like a personal rant but I do have a point, and I think it's worth posting here.

Right now I'm in Utah going to a Community College. Tuition is roughly 5,300 for full time students here. And this is among the most affordable college options I have. Last night I thought about where I am in life, and where I am going. My life right now is just a waste. What am I doing wasting what are supposed to be the best years of my life sitting around studying $#@! that I literally will never use in any career I am ever going to have. My hard working dad spends 5k a semester to pay for classes that are not only useless for me (I took US Music & Culture, Music & Technology, Philosophy, 2 fitness classes, Intro to Writing, and a rhetoric class), but even if I were interested in going into the career field where these subjects are useful, I still learned next to nothing that entire semester. I can sum up what I "learned" in a few points

I got a little experience in making music using technology and computers
I learned a few things about argumentation
I learned a few things about writing better

But that's just about it. And I mean "a few" literally as in only 3 or 4 specific things. I spent 5k on that? I could probably rent an apartment for half a year on that! And I'm not even counting the 200 or so dollars I spent on 6 textbooks, exactly 0 of which I actually ended up needing.

I'm from Nevada. Moving here was a huge mistake in the first place. Not only is the college a waste of time, but living with my sister can be irritating, I have no friends up here (I left them all, most of them live back in Nevada,) I hate the weather, and I just don't belong here. I belong in Nevada.

So last night I devised a plan. I would finish up this semester (unless I drop all my classes soon and avoid paying tuition. I'm tempted to tell my parents I don't believe in this anymore. In which case I'd execute my plan earlier.) I would finish this semester and transfer all of my banking and mailing junk just like I did in August when I moved here. I'd gather up my small number of possessions, put them in a u-haul truck, and bring them back down to Nevada to live with my parents for a few months (hopefully not too long, I'm not going back there just to waste my time.) As far as I know, moving back really won't cost a whole lot of money. (The large majority of it would be renting the u-haul truck.)

Hopefully I can find a job when I get back home (Nevada will always be my home.) and get enough money to find a small apartment or condo to rent. I'll continue with my life and build myself back up as a person socially, physically, mentally, and emotionally. I want to get somewhere in life and do things and be happy. I don't want to just go the way everyone else does (go to college, graduate, get a job, get married, have kids, retire, get buried.) Can't a person just learn things through experience and personal study to find success? Is it a coincidence that Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Mark Zuckerberg all dropped out of college? Isn't it more practical to go through life with practical experience instead of going to a school for four years and then showing someone a piece of paper you spent 6+ years and 300,000 dollars on to get a job to pay for the rest of your meaningless cookie cutter life? I think Peter Schiff was right about this. Just know how to do the damn work. I don't need a piece of paper for you to prove that you can do your job.

Anyway, while looking for textbooks for my classes today I thought, "Wow, 150 dollars for a book I'll use 3 times tops, and will never use outside of this classroom ever, that has information that I could just as easily find on the internet or in a much cheaper book? This has all the characteristics of a rip-off." So I thought "What the hell am I doing wasting my dad's money on this? Where am I even going? I don't want to leech of off my hardworking dad. I want to make something for myself and not just waste my time here in this college in this state." I've really gone through a whole reevaluation of my life in the past day...

...some things I needed to get out, which I think people can find some truth in. What do you think of my thoughts, and of my plan? Is college a scam? What should I do?

[Matthew5]

What would you like to do? Do you currently have any skills?

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

No I'm just a 19 year old out of high school looking for an entry level job.

[Matthew5]

No I'm just a 19 year old out of high school looking for an entry level job.

Ok, so what's your passion? What would you like to do for a living?

[KCIndy]

For what it's worth...

If not an outright scam, I personally believe the "traditional" college track is a waste of time and money. It wasn't always this way, granted. Back in the last century, it wasn't uncommon for someone to get a BS or BA and then immediately jump to some corporate job where he would work straight through until retirement.

Those days are gone.

Today, from what I've read lately, if a graduate can find a job at all, it is usually not even in the same field as that grad's degree.


So... why not talk to your parents about this? Not from an "I don't care, what's the use" perspective. Try making these points instead:

* I don't feel like I'm getting much return on the money YOU are investing

* I think there may be more profitable avenues to try for an ambitious person like me (you *are* ambitious, right? Not planning on dropping out and
spending all day playing video games?

* I want to discover the sort of job skills I can learn by DOING.

* DAD, IF I CAN SAVE YOU 5K/SEMESTER WHILE I DILIGENTLY EXPLORE THESE OPTIONS, THIS WOULD HELP YOU AS WELL!


What fields of work are you interested in? Have you done any research into what sort of jobs you might be able to get on a "fast-track" that pay well? Are there jobs around where you might get paid WHILE you learn, such as an internship in a skilled trade?

I would encourage you to take a couple days to really do your research, then have a heartfelt discussion with your parents. Stay open minded and be willing to listen to their views as well.

You might be surprised at how close you and your folks are in your views.

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

^ Thanks for the advice. I'm very thankful for it.

I'm interested in music. Being involved with it somehow is something I would enjoy, even if it means just being the little guy there helping out with the easy things. But if I got experience doing that, I believe I could get experience and move my way up.

I like reading about lots of things...my interests are very broad. I would like to write books and make some money off of that if I could. But I've never had a thing that I've said "This is what I want to do, specifically."

I haven't looked into a whole lot of specifics yet, so that's what I need to research on.

[Matthew5]

^ Thanks for the advice. I'm very thankful for it.

I'm interested in music. Being involved with it somehow is something I would enjoy, even if it means just being the little guy there helping out with the easy things. But if I got experience doing that, I believe I could get experience and move my way up.

I like reading about lots of things...my interests are very broad. I would like to write books and make some money off of that if I could. But I've never had a thing that I've said "This is what I want to do, specifically."

I haven't looked into a whole lot of specifics yet, so that's what I need to research on.

Well, there are some things that are rigged to make people money in the collegiate system, no doubt. But no, college isn't a scam as a whole. Stick with it and at least finish up your Associate's degree. It'll show potential employers that you have drive and if you ever want to go back, you've already got the basics out of the way.

Trust me, I was in your same shoes at 19. These aren't the best years of your life going to waste. Every decade brings interesting challenges and adventures. My metabolism is about the only thing I miss from being 19.

[fr33]

My wife's cousin has a marketing degree from the University of Texas. It's going to be a long time paying off those loans from her waitressing jobs. But, hey, she got a cool longhorn tattoo on her ankle.

[RickyJ]

That piece of paper won't get you a job anyway. Most colleges are scams, only a few might be worth it.

[Matthew5]

That piece of paper won't get you a job anyway. Most colleges are scams, only a few might be worth it.

That paper may be required to actually get an interview in an industry.

[goRPaul]

College is indeed a scam, but if you're going to do it, community college is a cost-efficient way of going about it. But without a clear goal on what you want, it's probably safer not to go.

I went to college for five years, only to get a two year degree. After quitting school, losing my job, and getting sick (and fat) of food stamps, I joined the Marine Corps. Military probably isn't an option and that's totally cool, I wouldn't recommend it to most people. And if I would, I'd say join the Air Force because that's where all the girls are. Marine Corps is such a sausage fest...

Seeing as how you like music, reading, and writing, I'd recommend starting a blog and getting involved in the local music scene. You're smart, you're the perfect age for it, and it's something you can get very creative with. Go to every show you can, get to know the bands and their members, and blog. Establish a reputation for knowing which bands and venues are good, and use social media to hype the best shows to go to every weekend. When bands and venues find out that your blog attracts a crowd, you will get favors. It's not really a job in the traditional sense, but doesn't that make it more appealing? You'll probably still need a day job, but you'll be happy with what you're doing. And if you do it right, blogging can earn you a decent income.

[Kodaddy]

A diploma tells your future employers that you are trainable.

[fr33]

Me personally, I would have killed myself rather than going to college. High school was bad enough. My only regret is that I didn't drop out of school.

Here comes more anecdotal stories...
My nephew spent a semester at a university, then didn't like it and moved back home. Then he spent another semester at community college. This whole time he had no idea what he wanted to do. It's just what you're supposed to do according to his high school counselor. Then he tried to join the army. Couldn't physically handle it and was discharged during basic training. After that he's worked at a factory for double the minimum wage for almost 2 years now. Soon he's going to enroll in another university(next semester) and spend all the money he's earned. Still no idea on what he's going to major in or become. It's just what you're supposed to do. That's what they taught him in high school and we can't change his mind. All this time he could have been working the job that he's going to leave soon and have earned raises and have built a resume for the future. Attending a technical school would have likely been a better investment than what he's going to throw away but the idiot wasn't taught that in grade school.

[KCIndy]

I'm interested in music. Being involved with it somehow is something I would enjoy, even if it means just being the little guy there helping out with the easy things. But if I got experience doing that, I believe I could get experience and move my way up.

I like reading about lots of things...my interests are very broad. I would like to write books and make some money off of that if I could. But I've never had a thing that I've said "This is what I want to do, specifically."

Take a look around and see if there are any jobs you can *tolerate* doing while you are working on the "fun stuff" on the side.

gRPaul makes a great point about a music blog. Maybe you can even start your own local/regional music review/news/events website and make money off of advertising.

If you do, you won't get rich overnight... SO....

Check out this article from Forbes about the jobs that are going to be opening in a few years where a guy with experience can write his own ticket:


http://www.forbes.com/sites/emsi/201...-workers-ages/

For the last three years, according to ManpowerGroup, the hardest segment of the workforce for employers to staff with skilled talent hasn’t been registered nurses or engineers or even web developers. It’s been the skilled trades – the welders, electricians, machinists, etc. that are so prevalent in manufacturing and construction.

But if these skilled-trades workers are difficult to find now, as Manpower’s survey indicates, just wait a few years. The skills gap is likely to become more acute.

A blue collar job might not be highbrow, but it has two big advantages: First, getting the needed skills are a heckuva lot cheaper - and much faster - than a traditional four year degree. Second, there's a good chance you can actually *earn* money while finishing up your skill set through apprenticeships

If you're making a decent income, you can always work on building your dream business on the side.... which would be a lot more fun than stressing about how to repay those dreadful student loans that almost always come with a traditional degree.

[KCIndy]

A diploma tells your future employers that you are trainable.

Yeah, but I already know how to say, "Would you like fries with that?"

[kcchiefs6465]

Yes. Today's entire education system is a scam.

And FAFSA is immoral.

Being forever indebted because of high school propaganda campaigns, endeavoring in professions that have tens of thousands of new graduates yearly.

A library card is free. If you want to be educated go teach yourself something.

[mtr1979]

Is college a scam? It depends. If you want to become a doctor, architect, or engineer then no. If you don't know what you want to be when you grow and want to "discover" yourself in college by taking a variety of different classes then yes.
I recommend going to a community college and obtaining a diploma or certificate not an associates degree.
Become an electrician, HVAC Tech/Installer, Plumber. The list of trades goes on.

[heavenlyboy34]

Don't waste your time in college. The stuff college offers you in your interest zone is worthless unless you want to go for a teaching degree. Go to a vo/tech school like the Arts Institute, Musicians' Institute, Community College (I got a CCL in graphic design, and you can get 2 year degrees as well. These schools also typically offer internships, though normally unpaid). If you want to know what university is like...just sit around reading boring textbooks during the weeknights, listen to recordings of boring lectures from 9-3 or so, and play drinking games with your friends on weekends.

[kcchiefs6465]

Is college a scam? It depends. If you want to become a doctor, architect, or engineer then no. If you don't know what you want to be when you grow and want to "discover" yourself in college by taking a variety of different classes then yes.
I recommend going to a community college and obtaining a diploma or certificate not an associates degree.
Become an electrician, HVAC Tech/Installer, Plumber. The list of trades goes on.

Perhaps.

You should have a job and a savings. There are doctors who cannot imagine being debt free. And this is the main problem. Children do not understand credit. And the propaganda campaign in high school telling you that everyone must go to college to learn a trade. Bull$#@!. This of course doesn't even touch upon the aspect of inherent immorality to take from some to pay for others' gains. If there was a free market this would hardly be the case. Education would be cheap and competitive, the moral hazard ceased.. but we have monopolized standards dictated through government decree. And the export of the dollar/the thousands of regulations created yearly has killed apprenticeships. I advocate that people should not become forever indebted and should work for their education, apply for scholarships. Avoid loans and funny money schemes. I did not mean to offend those who may have used college to their career advancement or those who have found a particularly enlightening path but truth be told, there is a great price to be paid for this funny money, debt based, monetary system. It's hard to say for certain but I predict that the education bubble is what will collapse this empire.

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

I really appreciate all the advice. I'll use all of it.

Also, I might add that my planned majors were math and finance. Is there anywhere I could start in those areas?

[KCIndy]

I really appreciate all the advice. I'll use all of it.

Also, I might add that my planned majors were math and finance. Is there anywhere I could start in those areas?

Well...

Those are certainly usable skills. You might look into the requirements for becoming an actuary. (someone who uses statistics to compile risk assessments for insurance companies) From what I understand, however, you have to be really, REALLY good at math and stats to pass qualifiers.... Sounds kinda like it's the "Navy Seals" of accounting!

But if you can handle it, actuaries are arguably among the very highest paid in the math/stats field. Here's an article from CNN Money discussing it:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news...t-job-actuary/


All that being said...

One more thing I really detested about academia when I was attending university was the single inescapable underlying truth of degrees and the jobs that they'll get you:

It's not what you know, it's who you know.

Admission: I'm not entirely unbiased here, so take this with a grain of salt. But when I was in school I saw any number of occasions when I (or friends of mine) would bust tail trying to line up part time jobs and/or internships. We would fill out all the applications, try to chase down written recommendations, make sure we took all the necessary classes, and make ourselves presentable for interviews... only to have the position go to some "friend of the family" of the person doing the hiring.

Nope. I'm not kidding. The kids who most often got the best internships and post-grad job offers were the ones who had all the right *social* connections rather than the best academic qualifications.

Of course, maybe that was just the times. I'll keep on hoping things have changed in that regard, but I'm not going to be surprised if it hasn't.

If you aren't fond of kissing tail, it's one more good reason to get out of academia and either: A) start your own business, or, B) learn a skill set where your talent is obvious and incontrovertible.

[RickyJ]

That paper may be required to actually get an interview in an industry.

I said it wouldn't get you a job, I didn't say it wouldn't get you an interview.

[VIDEODROME]

If you find a trade that interests you, try finding out if it requires Certifications and just study up for those exams.

I think for many students including myself, they finish a degree program and lack the time and money to pursue the required Certification exams that often seem over priced. In my example, pursuing IT and looking at CompTIA.

Or... even if the the student has all the qualifications, they may need to move to a city to find the jobs they studied for. Again, where can I go with a Degree in Cyber Security if I live in a small town?

[Matthew5]

I said it wouldn't get you a job, I didn't say it wouldn't get you an interview.

An interview is an important part of getting a job. You can't get the job if you don't get the interview.

[DamianTV]

An interview is an important part of getting a job. You can't get the job if you don't get the interview.

The job needs to exist before you can even get an interview.

[Scrapmo]

1.Can you get hired in the field you want to be in without a college degree?
Yes? Don't go to college. No? Go to question 2.

2. Is the job market promising for your degree?
No? Don't go to college Yes? Go to question 3.

3. Will your potential income from potential job allow you to pay of any potential debt that you may potentially acquire, quickly (potentially)?
No? Don't go to college Yes? Try learning a trade (and save money) before trying college.

I have 2 bachelors and a masters. The Best education I received was after I left all that bull$#@! behind and got a library card, they know me by name there.

Mark Twain — 'I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.'

[69360]

For the most part, yes college is a scam. There are some exceptions like specialized doctors where you are virtually guaranteed to make your investment back and a good profit.

[DamianTV]

What is left of our decimated job market now places higher value on Expensive Certificates of Obedience instead of Experience. Why? That is what HR is both Indoctrinated and Instructed to do.

[VIDEODROME]

What is left of our decimated job market now places higher value on Expensive Certificates of Obedience instead of Experience. Why? That is what HR is both Indoctrinated and Instructed to do.

It's a vicious circle. Industry starts demanding more of colleges to educate their students. They respond by embrace a "Teach to the Test" method just so students can be prepped for these overpriced certifications.

Then new Grads come out with their degree knowing they need more papers, so they just hit the books and cram for Certs. Certainly, after this process they'll be exposed to fundamentals of their trade, but how much comprehension and retention will they maintain after passing their exams?

Ironically, if a grad just grinds through several Certs in a short time, it will raise red flags. Employers will believe they just crammed like hell and do not retain the material or they must be cheating.

[phill4paul]

College is an \ˌin(t)-stə-ˈtü-shən/.

A place where an organization takes care of people for a usually long period of time. A place for the care of persons who are (soon to be) destitute, disabled, or mentally ill.