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Thread: 100 year old Edison Cylinder Christmas carols

  1. #1



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Thought this was neat.

    And while I understand the irony of using technology to decry it, how many MP3s will be around 100 years from now?

    http://www.oldchristmastreelights.com/music.htm

    http://jvc-media.com/archives/index.html

    100 years of 'standard' use; probably 300+ years if vacuum packed with desiccant and kept reasonably temperature stable.

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Thought this was neat.

    And while I understand the irony of using technology to decry it, how many MP3s will be around 100 years from now?

    http://www.oldchristmastreelights.com/music.htm
    I wished my Edison cylinder had a new needle. That was the first antique I ever bought.


    Last edited by donnay; 01-09-2014 at 07:38 PM.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  6. #5
    1892 Grover Cleveland March

    http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/se...r&sortOrder=ia

    I've been watching this stuff for a while. One of my true fascinations.

  7. #6
    I have a few old singles from the early 1900's. They are actually smaller than 45's although they play at 78 rpm. http://www.littlewonderrecords.com/l...r-history.html Probably the only title anybody might recognize is "It's A Long Way To Tipperary" which is from 1914. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_...y_to_Tipperary
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    http://jvc-media.com/archives/index.html

    100 years of 'standard' use; probably 300+ years if vacuum packed with desiccant and kept reasonably temperature stable.
    Uh huh...


  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Thought this was neat.

    And while I understand the irony of using technology to decry it, how many MP3s will be around 100 years from now?

    http://www.oldchristmastreelights.com/music.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I really love this stuff, btw:

    http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/browse.php
    I don't know anything about cylinders but these were really neat- my boys had a blast listening to the Vaudeville recordings on Gunny's link.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Uh huh...

    Seriously? Comparing ion-stabilized ISO-Certified physical recording media with unstable plastic magnetic media that Radio Shack stamps 'certified' onto for marketing purposes? Come on now, I've got no argument with the luddite set, but inject a little reason here. The uncertified JVC Taiyo Yuden have been stress tested to a century of data integrity. I would bet a couple of my own limbs that the certified JVC archivals will maintain data integrity for as long as 200+ years if kept in stable conditions and not overused.

    First you have to recognize that there is a pretty big difference between magnetic media on plastic, and physical media on ion-stabilized platinum-silver. The data is rendered with physical pits burned into the strata, behind extra-hard oxygen-blocking lacquer.

    The Archival DVD is just as physical in the realm of recording data as were the Edison cylinders. A magnetic floppy is not physical at all. A standard CD/DVD is little more than a modernized Edison Cylinder that gets read with a laser instead of a needle anyway; and the two JVC Archival formats -- Taiyo Yuden and ISO lines -- use the longest-life technology strata substrata, media, and lacquer that science can buy.

    The day that floppy came out I would have been shocked if someone tried to tell me it would last longer than 5 years. You can clap the word 'certified' on a penguin and it'll still caw like a crow. There is a little bit of a difference between Radio Shack 'certifying' their own product to carry data, and the ISO developing a long-term storage archival certification just for this item.

    I love ya brother, but you lost the bubble on this one. The magnetic floppy from Radio Shack was illegitimate on the day it came out; but the Archival DVD with ISO archival certification is still going to be legitimate 100 years from now.

    To start with the ISO doesn't just certify junk, and they had to create a whole new cert category JUST for this Archival DVD. We already had century DVD's in the Taiyo Yudens, and the Archival DVD's are an order of magnitude more stable than those.

    There really is no room for "my opinion your opinion" here. Optical media is physical, just like the Edison cylinders. Just like a heavy service hammer from 100 years ago will still work today, and a heavy service hammer made today will still work in 100 years, pointing to a battery-operated nail gun as though it means anything whatever to the longevity of a simple physical hammer is an invalid comparison.

    On the day it came out, I would snort in derision at anybody who said that magnetic floppy would hold data for longer than a decade; but I would damn near stake my life on the Archival DVD holding data for well over 100 years.

  12. #10
    Find me a machine in a hundred years that can read it...

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Seriously? Comparing ion-stabilized ISO-Certified physical recording media with unstable plastic magnetic media that Radio Shack stamps 'certified' onto for marketing purposes? Come on now, I've got no argument with the luddite set, but inject a little reason here. The uncertified JVC Taiyo Yuden have been stress tested to a century of data integrity. I would bet a couple of my own limbs that the certified JVC archivals will maintain data integrity for as long as 200+ years if kept in stable conditions and not overused.

    First you have to recognize that there is a pretty big difference between magnetic media on plastic, and physical media on ion-stabilized platinum-silver. The data is rendered with physical pits burned into the strata, behind extra-hard oxygen-blocking lacquer.

    The Archival DVD is just as physical in the realm of recording data as were the Edison cylinders. A magnetic floppy is not physical at all. A standard CD/DVD is little more than a modernized Edison Cylinder that gets read with a laser instead of a needle anyway; and the two JVC Archival formats -- Taiyo Yuden and ISO lines -- use the longest-life technology strata substrata, media, and lacquer that science can buy.

    The day that floppy came out I would have been shocked if someone tried to tell me it would last longer than 5 years. You can clap the word 'certified' on a penguin and it'll still caw like a crow. There is a little bit of a difference between Radio Shack 'certifying' their own product to carry data, and the ISO developing a long-term storage archival certification just for this item.

    I love ya brother, but you lost the bubble on this one. The magnetic floppy from Radio Shack was illegitimate on the day it came out; but the Archival DVD with ISO archival certification is still going to be legitimate 100 years from now.

    To start with the ISO doesn't just certify junk, and they had to create a whole new cert category JUST for this Archival DVD. We already had century DVD's in the Taiyo Yudens, and the Archival DVD's are an order of magnitude more stable than those.

    There really is no room for "my opinion your opinion" here. Optical media is physical, just like the Edison cylinders. Just like a heavy service hammer from 100 years ago will still work today, and a heavy service hammer made today will still work in 100 years, pointing to a battery-operated nail gun as though it means anything whatever to the longevity of a simple physical hammer is an invalid comparison.

    On the day it came out, I would snort in derision at anybody who said that magnetic floppy would hold data for longer than a decade; but I would damn near stake my life on the Archival DVD holding data for well over 100 years.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Find me a machine in a hundred years that can read it...
    Most likely they won't need a special machine to read it, they'll just image it at some ungodly high resolution and use the image to reproduce the data. A lot like the better preservation shops are doing to Edison cylinders today. Most of the century-old Edison recordings are being reproduced nowadays by imaging the cylinders and interpreting the images rather than hooking them up to a phonograph. Because optical media is physical, and you can physically see the pits, all you really need is an extremely high resolution image of the DVD and voila, there is your data.

    Nevertheless, if there are people restoring Edison Cylinder phonograph machines from 100 years ago today, then there will probably be people restoring antique DVD reader machines in 100 years.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Find me a machine in a hundred years that can read it...
    And there's the rub ...

    From another thread on this particular subject: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...defense-bitrot!
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Not to say that this isn't really cool stuff (it is), but ...

    "It is thrilling to think that we have created the first document [that] will likely survive the human race," said Professor Peter Kazansky of the Optoelectronics Research Center. "This technology can secure the last evidence of civilization: all we've learnt will not be forgotten."
    Baloney. This is a bunch of happy talk. The problem of preserving information "for the ages" goes far, FAR beyond merely recording data on highly durable media that we, here, today understand how to use and access. People in the future have got to know (and physically & practically be able to do) those things, too. If they don't, even an infinitely durable medium would be utterly useless (except as paper-weights - or museum-piece gewgaws).

    It's a matter of being able to access and "decode" the preserved data. Something as relatively simple and crude as hierroglyphics were an utter bafflement to every expert until the Rosetta stone provided a "bridge" to breaking the "code." And hieroglyphics had the advantage of obviously being some kind of "information representation/storage system." But a "mere" piece of glass or "memory crystal?" Not so much ...

    And even if they are recognized as being containers for information, the description provided for this particular "information representation/storage system" sounds very complicated (being "5-dimensional" and so forth). "Backwards engineering" a "crystal reader" having nothing but some of these "memory crystals" to go on (without knowing the technical specifications) could be a bitch that would make hieroglyphics look like Sunday-paper cryptogram puzzles.

    Anybody remember 5.25" floppy disks? Or magentic tape drives? Or punch-cards? How many people use those things today [or even have access to the equipment needed to read them]? Well, the same fate awaits our CDs/DVDs, solid-state drives, and USB flash drives. It very probably awaits these "memory crystals," too. Way back in the '80s or early '90s, Stanley Schmidt (editor of Analog Science Fiction magazine) wrote a great editorial about this very issue (the preservation of information in formats that will be usefully & practically readable far into the future). Ironically - and directly to the point - that editorial is, so far as I know, only available in paper hardcopy ... or microfiche.

    It appears that there may be a fundamental (and perhaps inescapable) tradeoff. Information that is easily "accessible" across long periods of time (such as simple "writing" in the form of cave paintings, hieroglyphics, paper books, etc.) may not be durable over even longer periods of time - whereas information that is durable over even longer periods of time may not be easily (or at all) "accessible" in some distant future ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 01-10-2014 at 07:21 PM.


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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I wished my Edison cylinder had a new needle. That was the first antique I ever bought.

    I'd be happy to give it a restoration as a Christmas present. @donnay
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-06-2016 at 04:33 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I have a few old singles from the early 1900's. They are actually smaller than 45's although they play at 78 rpm. http://www.littlewonderrecords.com/l...r-history.html Probably the only title anybody might recognize is "It's A Long Way To Tipperary" which is from 1914. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_...y_to_Tipperary
    It is a long way to The Well of The Ara from here .
    Do something Danke

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'd be happy to give it a restoration as a Christmas present. @donnay
    That would be great!
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Thought this was neat.

    And while I understand the irony of using technology to decry it, how many MP3s will be around 100 years from now?

    http://www.oldchristmastreelights.com/music.htm
    The soda fountain/ candy store in town near where I grew up had a machine that played music rolls . They decorated the place up super for Christmas , it was owned by a Greek immigrant family. I would always go stand next to the machine and watch it and listen for a little bit, thing is neat . I usually went down around Christmas and got a toasted gaum sandwich and a lemon coke .
    Do something Danke



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