Reason Magazine supports forced vaccinations; "no libertarian case for vaccine refusal"

[NewRightLibertarian]

Exactly my point and why I posted that and revived this thread.

There is no middle ground.

If you grant that the state has the right to shackle you down and inject a drug into against your will, for some perceived greater good, then the state has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to you.

Tone down that talk. We need to have a 'big tent' and your rhetoric might make some campus liberals angry, and we can't have that!

[Anti Federalist]

But whether I should be allowed to make health decisions that can potentially negate the decisions of others to vaccinate is another question.

If you answer is "no" then that is the logic that enables this:







Looks like freedom to me.

[PRB]

The world would definitely be a much better place if a whole lot of people would just commit suicide, or at least get spayed/neutered.

Nonetheless, no one should be in a position where it would be too easy for them to make that kind of decision for others.

That would be the "bad kind" of eugenics, as opposed to the "nice kind" that people should also teach their children about.

Admitted eugenicist, good to hear.

[DevilsAdvocate]

If you don't want to get sick, then get a vaccine. Boom, you're covered! Why do you need to force vaccines on people who don't want them?

[Petar]

Admitted eugenicist, good to hear.

Alleged admitted eugenicist.

[John F Kennedy III]

No it does not always get dodged by the pro-science crowd. It's just that the anti-science crowd apparently stick their fingers in their ears and yell LALALALALA every time it's explained why it isn't actually that simple.

Then about a day later, they again state, "That always gets dodged by the vaxxers," pretending that nobody ever thought of THAT before.

It is one of the most annoying things about the blatant dishonesty in the cult that I can think of.

Lloyd Pye.

[Madison320]

If you don't want to get sick, then get a vaccine. Boom, you're covered! Why do you need to force vaccines on people who don't want them?

I think you nailed it right there. I have to admit when I first read the article in Reason I thought they had a point, although I disagreed. But you're absolutely right, all you need to do is voluntarily take the vaccine, you don't need to force it on someone else. I feel dumb for missing that! Dang.

What about forced quarantine for something really deadly that has no vaccine?

Even though I disagree with Reason magazine on this I think it's wrong to brand them as an enemy. They're right most of the time.

[DevilsAdvocate]

What about forced quarantine for something really deadly that has no vaccine?

This is a tricky one. And actually I think we would need to do this if the illness is really deadly. Some of these viruses are really scary, such as the Ebola virus, and can become a global threat very quickly.

The hard part is getting competent people in high places who can make and execute these decisions based on the real objective scientific data regarding the speed of transmission, the method of transmission, and the deadliness of the illness. We don't want to put people in concentration camps because of "swine flu" or some other idiotic media frenzy.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

This is a tricky one. And actually I think we would need to do this if the illness is really deadly. Some of these viruses are really scary, such as the Ebola virus, and can become a global threat very quickly.

The hard part is getting competent people in high places who can make and execute these decisions based on the real objective scientific data regarding the speed of transmission, the method of transmission, and the deadliness of the illness. We don't want to put people in concentration camps because of "swine flu" or some other idiotic media frenzy.

How can we trust vaccines when we can't even trust the people who make them?

[BucksforPaul]

Is it just me or does Reason Magazine print a lot of Unreasonable things?

[NewRightLibertarian]

Is it just me or does Reason Magazine print a lot of Unreasonable things?

You just don't understand their great contribution to the liberty movement. From never having any success promoting the beliefs to attempting to destroy Ron Paul's campaign out of jealousy to defending forced vaccinations and denigrating the non-aggression principle, these guys have really been exemplars for freedom.

[Ender]

This is a tricky one. And actually I think we would need to do this if the illness is really deadly. Some of these viruses are really scary, such as the Ebola virus, and can become a global threat very quickly.

The hard part is getting competent people in high places who can make and execute these decisions based on the real objective scientific data regarding the speed of transmission, the method of transmission, and the deadliness of the illness. We don't want to put people in concentration camps because of "swine flu" or some other idiotic media frenzy.

Good grief.

Let's put all the non-vaxers in concentration camps because they are a threat to the health of all the vaccinated?

And this non-logic is supposed to say that vaccinations work?

[DevilsAdvocate]

Good grief.

Let's put all the non-vaxers in concentration camps because they are a threat to the health of all the vaccinated?

And this non-logic is supposed to say that vaccinations work?

No, you are misrepresenting what I'm saying. Carefully read the comment I was replying too. If there is an extremely deadly virus with no vaccine, such as an airborn strain of ebola (no vaccine, 90%+ fatality rate) that has the potential to wipe out the world, then we need to take steps to quarantine the infected people.

If the virus is something even more insanely virulent, such as one of these biological warfare concoctions (imagine 100% fatality rate, massive communicability), then it may become necessary to kill the infected people. It's a hard thing to say, especially on a libertarian website, I hope you can take my point as a logical one, rather than an emotional one.

[TruckinMike]

Is it just me or does Reason Magazine print a lot of Unreasonable things?

When I think of Reason Magazine I think of all the deaths, torture, and pain that country after country have handed down to their own citizenry. This pain and suffering is usually created by some power mad freak. But brought to fruition with the help of some jack-ass with good intentions. One of those jack-asses in today's world is Reason Magazine.

[Madison320]

How can we trust vaccines when we can't even trust the people who make them?

He wasn't talking about vaccines. Quaratines with no vaccine.

[Madison320]

Good grief.

Let's put all the non-vaxers in concentration camps because they are a threat to the health of all the vaccinated?

And this non-logic is supposed to say that vaccinations work?

Not talking about vaccines.

On a slightly different topic, I asked this earlier. Would you get the rabies shots if you were bitten by a rabid dog?

[Deborah K]

Tone down that talk. We need to have a 'big tent' and your rhetoric might make some campus liberals angry, and we can't have that!

I doubt anyone believes the 'big tent' would include a belief that forced vaccination promotes liberty. Hopefully 'big tent' means diverse groups with a common foundational belief in the individual freedom to think, feel, believe, act, and do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. (And no, I don't mean hurt someone's feelings. )

[Ender]

Not talking about vaccines.

On a slightly different topic, I asked this earlier. Would you get the rabies shots if you were bitten by a rabid dog?

Depends on the circumstances; there is now reports of rabies being cured w/o vaccinations.

BUT- the issue here is 'forced' vaccinations.

If someone wants to be vaccinated, for whatever reason, then they should have the freedom to do so; AND if one chooses not to be vaccinated, they should also have that freedom of choice.

[BucksforPaul]

When I think of Reason Magazine I think of all the deaths, torture, and pain that country after country have handed down to their own citizenry. This pain and suffering is usually created by some power mad freak. But brought to fruition with the help of some jack-ass with good intentions. One of those jack-asses in today's world is Reason Magazine.

+rep for a great and succinct analysis.

[rambone]

One alleged measles death in 12 years. Hysteria ensues.

Reason Magazine wastes no time using the opportunity to advance its forced drug agenda.

Immune Compromised Woman Dies of Measles: Are the Unvaccinated Legally Responsible? | Reason.com

This follows up exactly with Ronald Bailey's article from 2013, where he argued for using government to punish and harass unvaccinated people.

I read a number of articles on this subject, and although there is plenty of hysterical ravings to go around, Reason is the only one I found actually advancing this point of going after unvaccinated people. Even some of the most rabidly statist outlets don't go this far.

FYI: Ironically, the deceased woman was already vaccinated for measles, but died anyway. Apparently she was on a whole bunch of different pharmaceutical drugs, and her immune system was compromised. The vaccine didn't give her immunity, and she died in a hospital. But nevermind that; the real problem is other patients having too much freedom.

[rambone]

Reason's latest piece seemed to rile a lot of its own libertarian followers on Facebook.



Alan Wood I think it’s ironic that a news outlet called “Reason” is implying that unvaccinated people at a hospital are to blame for a very sick v a c c i n a t e d woman dying of a disease... Are we seriously supposed to believe that a government enforced program of forced pharmaceuticals being injected into everyone, (which in many cases are known to be largely ineffective as well as causing serious bodily harm to many people), is the reasonable solution? This page might have to change its name to Unreasonable Magazine.

Susan Haymon Wow it is amazing to read the BS coming from people who read (and publish) libertarian journals.

Ginger Jorgensen Radonich This is a ridiculous straw man argument. The woman WAS vaccinated. The woman was in a health care facility which presumably has other sick people in it. I expect reason from Reason.

Steve Curtin So many authoritarian sickos in an alleged libertarian page.

Kimberly Wright Unbelievable. Reason doesn't even make a peep about SB277 that would have forced even homeschooled kids to be forcibly vaccinated without amendment and still severely limits homeschoolers ability to congregate despite vaccination rates already being well above targets and an 18% drop in personal belief exemptions from previous years. Seems like a concern for the cause of liberty. But THIS you'll mention. I love that a person who dies, or is crippled or brain damaged immediately after vaccination has to jump through a million hoops to get anyone to admit it was the vaccine but a woman with a host of other ailments happens to also have measles discovered in autopsy and it is immediately declared the cause of death. I hope everyone who is calling for the maybe/possible/might be person who infected her to take responsibility also quarantined themselves or their children for 2 months following any of their live virus vaccines since that also spreads the viruses.

Aidan James Browne I can't believe a so called libertarian publication is championing the prosecution of individuals who choose not to get vaccinated, could you be more full of $#@!, seriously?

Baldous Huxley WTF...is REASON, the magazine of "Free Minds and Free Markets" now advocating for MANDATORY vaccinations at the behest of govt.? Isn't this the same REASON who is against govt. provided health care and govt. mandated health insurance but now you are FOR govt. mandates involving injecting something into ones body the govt. says you MUST have? Seriously, WTF?

Andrew Poliakoff Are you joking? It's sad to see this sort of article coming out of Reason.

Martin Hoer So now Reason is shilling for big government/big pharma. The woman was vaccinated, if anybody should be sued it would be the maker of the inferior product that obviously did not work. Every time Reason puts these articles on vaccinations up they lose credibility. If these products work as big government/big pharma claim then those vaccinated should not worry about the unvaccinated as they are the ones unprotected.

Adam Miller I'm VERY disappointed in Reason Magazine. You're reading a lot like Slate right now. Holy $#@!ing $#@!.

Aaron von Prinz Go home Reason, you're drunk. You lose credibility as a libertarian news source every time you post garbage like this. How is Ronald Bailey still writing for you? He's terrible, and he's been terrible for a while now.

Evan Lightner Wow this is so libertarian!! Thanks Reason Magazine for being on board with the State and Big Pharma's mandatory vaccination agenda against people's will. Its super liberty, we appreciate it!

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Those same people pushing all the vaccines will no doubt give their kids a chemical slew of vaccines, and some of them will then be writing articles supporting autism research while at the same time saying anyone who links chemicals in vaccines to autism is a jew-hating conspiracy nut who thinks George Bush used tomahawk missiles to take down the twin towers.

[dannno]

Most libertarians realize that the government often gets things wrong - why would any libertarian trust the government to tell them what vaccines to get? Trust your doctor, if you have a doctor you trust - or trust your own research - but the government? Why should I do that, Reason? Can you answer that question? Do you honestly believe there is no room for corruption in the medical establishment? Really??

[LibForestPaul]

What is the difference between preventing you from shooting at me or mine with a firearm or preventing you from infecting me with a communicable disease while at a public place?

.

Mistakes:
1) Public place.
2) Shooting me.
3) Infecting me.
4) Disease.

Would you like to go through these one at a time?

[rambone]

Today at "FreedomFest," Reason Magazine Editor-In-Chief Matt Welch will moderate a debate called "Should Vaccines Be Mandatory." Reason's veteran science correspondent Ronald Bailey will deliver the case for forced vaccinations.

Because nothing says freedom better than using the state to mass-medicate the "herd."

DEBATE "Should Vaccines be Mandatory?" Ronald Bailey vs Dr. Bob Sears; Matt Welch, mod.

[Anti Federalist]

Blimp

[Swordsmyth]

Blimp

TReason Magazine.


Maybe they just might be trying to destroy liberty?
Not to mention their support for open borders and ChiCom predatory trade.

[Anti Globalist]

$#@! forced vaccinations.

[Brian4Liberty]

There is no vaccine for the common cold.
...

There is now.

...
Let the powers that be launch a bio-weapon "terror" attack.

This country will go Full Nazi Retard in 48 hours.
...

Two weeks to flatten the curve...

In times of crisis, it's more important than ever to listen to the experts.

Especially Fauci, the CDC, and Gov Whitmer.

I don't know whether to get angry or cry after reading this thread. I hope all the forced vaccination buzz in the press isn't leading up to something.
...

Did you get your vaccine passport yet?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I'm not responsible for your health. You are.