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Thread: Pope Francis calls unfettered capitalism 'tyranny' and urges rich to share wealth

  1. #1

    Exclamation Pope Francis calls unfettered capitalism 'tyranny' and urges rich to share wealth

    Thou Shalt Not Steal...always seems to fall by the wayside, no?

    And the fact that nothing lifts people out of poverty faster than a robust, thriving, free market economy?

    I guess that's lost as well.




    Pope Francis calls unfettered capitalism 'tyranny' and urges rich to share wealth

    Pontiff's first major publication calls on global leaders to guarantee work, education and healthcare

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...talism-tyranny

    Pope Francis has attacked unfettered capitalism as "a new tyranny", urging global leaders to fight poverty and growing inequality in the first major work he has authored alone as pontiff.

    The 84-page document, known as an apostolic exhortation, amounted to an official platform for his papacy, building on views he has aired in sermons and remarks since he became the first non-European pontiff in 1,300 years in March.

    In it, Francis went further than previous comments criticising the global economic system, attacking the "idolatry of money" and beseeching politicians to guarantee all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare".

    He also called on rich people to share their wealth. "Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," Francis wrote in the document issued on Tuesday.

    "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?"

    The pope said renewal of the church could not be put off and the Vatican and its entrenched hierarchy "also need to hear the call to pastoral conversion".

    "I prefer a church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security," he wrote.

    In July, Francis finished an encyclical begun by Pope Benedict but he made clear that it was largely the work of his predecessor, who resigned in February.

    Called Evangelii Gaudium (The Joy of the Gospel), the exhortation is presented in Francis's simple and warm preaching style, distinct from the more academic writings of former popes, and stresses the church's central mission of preaching "the beauty of the saving love of God made manifest in Jesus Christ".

    In it, he reiterated earlier statements that the church cannot ordain women or accept abortion. The male-only priesthood, he said, "is not a question open to discussion" but women must have more influence in church leadership.

    A meditation on how to revitalise a church suffering from encroaching secularisation in western countries, the exhortation echoed the missionary zeal more often heard from the evangelical Protestants who have won over many disaffected Catholics in the pope's native Latin America.

    In it, economic inequality features as one of the issues Francis is most concerned about. The 76-year-old pontiff calls for an overhaul of the financial system and warns that unequal distribution of wealth inevitably leads to violence.

    "As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems," he wrote.

    Denying this was simple populism, he called for action "beyond a simple welfare mentality" and added: "I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor."

    Since his election, Francis has set an example for austerity in the church, living in a Vatican guest house rather than the ornate Apostolic Palace, travelling in a Ford Focus, and last month suspending a bishop who spent millions of euros on his luxurious residence.

    He chose to be called Francis after the medieval Italian saint of the same name famed for choosing a life of poverty.

    Stressing co-operation among religions, Francis quoted the late Pope John Paul II's idea that the papacy might be reshaped to promote closer ties with other Christian churches and noted lessons Rome could learn from the Orthodox church such as "synodality" or decentralised leadership.

    He praised co-operation with Jews and Muslims and urged Islamic countries to guarantee their Christian minorities the same religious freedom as Muslims enjoy in the west.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2
    Maybe he's just talking to and about the limousine liberal billionaire hypocrites.

  4. #3
    Thou Shalt Not Steal...always seems to fall by the wayside, no?
    Maybe it got thrown out the window with the part about idols.
    “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.” Lying Sack of Crap

  5. #4
    Arch-Bastard of Canterbury. That's all I have to say.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  6. #5
    I also urge the wealthy to share--by giving people a job.

    Jesus was that "teach a man to fish" fellow, wasn't he?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I also urge the wealthy to share--by giving people a job.

    Jesus was that "teach a man to fish" fellow, wasn't he?
    Yeah, that was him.

    I'm sure he'd approve of these guys showing up to collect the "fair share" owed by "the rich".


  8. #7
    What is he actually calling for in public policy?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What is he actually calling for in public policy?
    He wouldn't be the first Pope to do so.
    Stop believing stupid things



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    He wouldn't be the first Pope to do so.
    To do what?

  12. #10
    Maybe he should start out by liquidating most of the riches the Vatican holds and giving the proceeds to the poor.

  13. #11
    "unequal distribution of wealth inevitably leads to violence."

    And violently redistributing wealth leads to....?
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  14. #12
    Great. The Pope doesn't know the difference between capitalism and fascism either.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    Great. The Pope doesn't know the difference between capitalism and fascism either.
    Perhaps he thinks forced charity is really charity.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What is he actually calling for in public policy?
    I don't know. Forced welfare or true charity? JPII certainly had a few statements that could be interpreted as either also. The church condemns the ideology of socialism and certain aspects of capitalism as well, so it is highly unlikely that he has gone rouge and is advocating force.

    CCC 2425
    The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor. Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market." Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Perhaps he thinks forced charity is really charity.
    doubtful

  18. #16
    Notice that the words "unfettered capitalism" in the article are not part of a quote from the Pope.

    Notice also that, as far as I can tell, he never specifically calls for any kind of coercive redistribution of wealth. His only mention of welfare is calling for action "beyond a simple welfare mentality."

    If that 84-page document actually called for any public policies in terms that were specific enough for anyone from any political persuasion possibly to disagree, then this article did a rotten job of reporting on that.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    Great. The Pope doesn't know the difference between capitalism and fascism either.
    Actually in the crony capitalism of today there isn't a difference.

    I believe Pope Francis to be a good man. I do not believe he is talking about force but about giving of one's own accord.

    And Jesus never said: "Teach a man to fish....."

    This saying was coined by Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919) in her novel, Mrs. Dymond (1885):

    "I don't suppose even Caron could tell you the difference between material and spiritual," said Max, shrugging his shoulders. "He certainly doesn't practise his precepts, but I suppose the Patron meant that if you give a man a fish he is hungry again in an hour. If you teach him to catch a fish you do him a good turn. But these very elementary principles are apt to clash with the leisure of the cultivated classes. Will Mr. Bagginal now produce his ticket—the result of favour and the unjust sub-division of spiritual environments?" said Du Parc, with a smile.

    Some think its a Chinese proverb but there doesn't seem to be any evidence.
    There is no spoon.

  21. #18
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    Shall we assume the Pope will be having a massive garage sale?







    Some pigs are more equal than others.
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    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Notice that the words "unfettered capitalism" in the article are not part of a quote from the Pope.

    Notice also that, as far as I can tell, he never specifically calls for any kind of coercive redistribution of wealth. His only mention of welfare is calling for action "beyond a simple welfare mentality."

    If that 84-page document actually called for any public policies in terms that were specific enough for anyone from any political persuasion possibly to disagree, then this article did a rotten job of reporting on that.
    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/fr...2%80%99S_WORLD

    While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions.
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  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    To do what?
    Philanthropy, charity, sharing all virtues am down with just like nobody tries to use forces to push it. They can use shame but no guns.

  24. #21
    There is only one Commandment: "Greed is good".
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Actually in the crony capitalism of today there isn't a difference.
    There is a difference, but go ahead and let the progs define what it means, so they can more easily blame and destroy the idea of free enterprise when their filthy fascist system comes crashing down.

    "How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"
    - Samuel Adams
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Philanthropy, charity, sharing all virtues am down with just like nobody tries to use forces to push it. They can use shame but no guns.
    When I said, "To do what?" that was in response to tywysog.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Shall we assume the Pope will be having a massive garage sale?







    Some pigs are more equal than others.
    Pope Francis is under a V of P and lived under it in South America. Some actually chastised him because he lived under the vow so diligently in Argentina.

    He did not choose to be Pope but because he is, he is responsible for the belongings of the Catholic Church- BUT HE is still under the Vow.

    Throughout his life, both as an individual and as a religious leader, Bergoglio has been noted for his humility, his concern for the poor, and his commitment to dialogue as a way to build bridges between people of all backgrounds, beliefs, and faiths. He is known for having a simpler and less formal approach to the papacy, most notably by choosing to reside in the Domus Sanctae Marthae guesthouse rather than the papal apartments of the Apostolic Palace formerly used by his predecessors. In addition, he is known for favoring simpler vestments void of ornamentation, by starting to refuse the traditional papal mozzetta cape upon his election and choosing silver instead of gold for both his piscatory ring and pectoral cross.[7][8]
    There is no spoon.



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  29. #25
    That's helpful. But it's still just a vague generality.

  30. #26
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    Multiple choice...

    The Vatican has assets of approximately:
    1. $8 Million
    2. $80 Million
    3. $800 Million
    4. $8 Billion
    Citizen of Arizona
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    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    There is a difference, but go ahead and let the progs define what it means, so they can more easily blame and destroy the idea of free enterprise when their filthy fascist system comes crashing down.

    "How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"
    - Samuel Adams
    Please tell me you know the difference between "crony capitalism" which is mercantilism and the reason we fought the Revolutionary War, and REAL capitalism.
    There is no spoon.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Multiple choice...

    The Vatican has assets of approximately:
    1. $8 Million
    2. $80 Million
    3. $800 Million
    4. $8 Billion
    None of the above.
    Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion.
    http://content.time.com/time/magazin...833509,00.html

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    None of the above.
    They are very stingy with their property too, even severely limiting scholarly access to antiquities that are of immense value for study.

    Every state and institution with antiquities is very careful with them. But the Vatican has a reputation of being orders of magnitude more unreasonable than anyone else.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Maybe he should start out by liquidating most of the riches the Vatican holds and giving the proceeds to the poor.
    BINGO! Teach by example!


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