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Thread: Buck v. Bell

  1. #1

    Default Buck v. Bell

    Buck v. Bell 274 U.S. 200 (1927), is a decision of the United States Supreme Court, written by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., in which the Court ruled that a state statute permitting compulsory sterilization of the unfit, including the intellectual disabled, "for the protection and health of the state" did not violate the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. The decision was largely seen as an endorsement of negative eugenics—the attempt to improve the human race by eliminating "defectives" from the gene pool.
    The ruling was written by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. In support of his argument that the interest of the states in a "pure" gene pool outweighed the interest of individuals in their bodily integrity, he argued:

    "We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes.”

    Holmes concluded his argument by declaring that "Three generations of imbeciles are enough".[5] The sole dissenter in the court, Justice Pierce Butler, a devout Catholic,[6] did not write a dissenting opinion: the practice of a Justice's noting a dissent without opinion was much more common then than it would be in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

    Carrie Buck was operated upon, receiving a compulsory salpingectomy (a form of tubal ligation). She was later paroled from the institution as a domestic worker to a family in Bland, Virginia. She was an avid reader until her death in 1983. Her daughter Vivian had been pronounced "feeble minded" after a cursory examination by ERO field worker Dr. Arthur Estabrook,[7] thus the "three generations" of the majority opinion. It is worthy of noting that the child did very well in school for the two years that she attended (she died of complications from measles in 1932), even being listed on her school's honor roll in April 1931.[8]

    Historian Paul A. Lombardo argued in 1985 that Buck was not "feeble-minded" at all, but that she had been put away to hide her rape, perpetrated by the nephew of her adoptive mother.[9] He also asserted that Buck's lawyer, Irving Whitehead, poorly argued her case, failed to call important witnesses, and was remarked by commentators to often not know what side he was on. It is now thought that this was not because of incompetence, but deliberate.[10] Whitehead had close connections to the counsel for the institution and to Priddy. Whitehead was a member of the governing board of the state institution in which Buck resided, and had personally authorized Priddy's sterilization requests and was a strong supporter of eugenic sterilization.
    Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. was nominated by Teddy Roosevelt for his agreement with the Insular Cases. (that the Constitution did not apply to lands we traveled or conquered) Teddy Roosevelt was a strong supporter of eugenics and subscribed to the theory that otherwise, race suicide would be the result. Him along with Woodrow Wilson.

    So while some argue for state's "rights," the concept should be given pause. Individuals have Rights. States were meant to be a check to ensure the federal government could not arbitrarily encroach on those rights. The same people who argue state's "rights" in banning certain substances, logically are bound to accept the other atrocities states have equally perpetrated on the citizens.
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 11-22-2013 at 09:10 AM.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  3. #2

    Default

    Bump for recent thread.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  4. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Bump for recent thread.
    Which one? Because I'm now reminded again of the Koch network partnering up with Monsanto and aquiring the reprsentation of the treasonous Congressman Mike Pompeo to make law this industry backed legislation that would not only dictate that the individual has no right to know what they consume into their bodies but is also designed in a manner that removes the state's function to protect against government encroachment of the individual. And, of course, what they are really doing here is removing the individual's means of choice in the matter which undermines the model of the free market itself. Even though we're technically talking mercantilism here. What they are doing is manipulating/hijacking the process for representation of the people to both encroach upon their rights as well as protect themselves from the free market.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 04-30-2014 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #4

    Default

    This is disgusting; but thank you for posting it.

    What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through?
    A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through.
    Box of Rain, Grateful Dead




    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV
    A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.
    निर्विकल्पा
    aka Wicked Heathen
    I was a nasty woman before Trump made it cool.

  6. #5

    Default

    He also found Carrie Buck, alive and well near Charlottesville, and her sister Doris, covertly sterilized under the same law (she was told that her operation was for appendicitis), and now, with fierce dignity, dejected and bitter because she had wanted a child more than anything else in her life and had finally, in her old age, learned why she had never conceived.
    Horrible. From Carrie Buck's Daughter by Stephen Jay Gould.

    What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through?
    A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through.
    Box of Rain, Grateful Dead




    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV
    A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.
    निर्विकल्पा
    aka Wicked Heathen
    I was a nasty woman before Trump made it cool.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Which one? Because I'm now reminded again of the Koch network partnering up with Monsanto and aquiring the reprsentation of the treasonous Congressman Mike Pompeo to make law this industry backed legislation that would not only dictate that the individual has no right to know what they consume into their bodies but is also designed in a manner that removes the state's function to protect against government encroachment of the individual. And, of course, what they are really doing here is removing the individual's means of choice in the matter which undermines the model of the free market itself. Even though we're technically talking mercantilism here. What they are doing is manipulating/hijacking the process for representation of the people to both encroach upon their rights as well as protect themselves from the free market.
    A more relevant thread, NC.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-In-California

    Corporate subsidies need ended. Protectionist laws as well. And anyone committing fraud ought to be tried. You get no argument from me on those aspects. It's a pretty large stretch to cover what Monsanto is doing within the scope of Buck v. Bell.

    And frankly, if I were to actually get rabble roused into delirium about anything, it would be about the poisoned families in the Andes, dirt poor stuck drinking poisoned water. The birth defects, as terrible and tragic as they are, are nothing compared to Vietnam or Fallujah. Yet I hardly see public outcry for the babies born without brains, or grotesquely tumored.

    Mainly it's not that I'm disinterested in corporate welfare whores and their schemes, it's simply I have a lot on my plate already. I'm buying 6-10 books a week and reading about two of them. I'm backlogged like 10,000 pages of things I actually want to read. There's simply not enough hours in a day. It took me a year of owning the book to get around to reading Economic Sophisms. Keep up the good fight. I hold no water for Monsanto. I probably go further than you on what this economy needs and what specifically Monsanto embodies that is at odds with that necessity.

    Check out of the Buck v. Bell case. The freest country on the earth has (and is) sterilizing "undesirables."
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa View Post
    This is disgusting; but thank you for posting it.
    And GovCo gets mad as hell when we refer to them a NAZI's.
    “[T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.” (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    A more relevant thread, NC.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-In-California

    Corporate subsidies need ended. Protectionist laws as well. And anyone committing fraud ought to be tried. You get no argument from me on those aspects. It's a pretty large stretch to cover what Monsanto is doing within the scope of Buck v. Bell.

    And frankly, if I were to actually get rabble roused into delirium about anything, it would be about the poisoned families in the Andes, dirt poor stuck drinking poisoned water. The birth defects, as terrible and tragic as they are, are nothing compared to Vietnam or Fallujah. Yet I hardly see public outcry for the babies born without brains, or grotesquely tumored.

    Mainly it's not that I'm disinterested in corporate welfare whores and their schemes, it's simply I have a lot on my plate already. I'm buying 6-10 books a week and reading about two of them. I'm backlogged like 10,000 pages of things I actually want to read. There's simply not enough hours in a day. It took me a year of owning the book to get around to reading Economic Sophisms. Keep up the good fight. I hold no water for Monsanto. I probably go further than you on what this economy needs and what specifically Monsanto embodies that is at odds with that necessity.

    Check out of the Buck v. Bell case. The freest country on the earth has (and is) sterilizing "undesirables."
    Ok. I didn't know which thread you were referencing. I don't think I've ever read the case that you're sharing here. I'll give it a read. Thanks.

  10. #9

    Default

    Bump.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  11. #10

    Default

    Bump.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  12. #11






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