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Thread: My first Divine Liturgy experience.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by dinosaur View Post
    I prefer the Tridentine over the Byzantine. It is truly the closest thing to heaven on earth...a matter of taste I suppose.
    They both have their beauty, but I do agree, the Tridentine Mass is perhaps the most beautiful celebration of our love for God.



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  3. #62
    HB, listen to this young man chant one of the most solemn hymns of Holy Week



    They have stripped me of my garments and clothed me in a scarlet robe. They have set upon my head a crown of thorns, and have given me a reed in my right hand, that I might dash them to pieces, like a potter’s vessel
    Last edited by TER; 11-21-2013 at 04:17 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    HB, listen to this young man chant one of the most solemn hymns of Holy Week



    They have stripped me of my garments and clothed me in a scarlet robe. They have set upon my head a crown of thorns, and have given me a reed in my right hand, that I might dash them to pieces, like a potter’s vessel
    Thanks! ~hugs~
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  5. #64
    Update-I've confirmed a time for a lesson in Byzantine chant with Fr. Salamy on 12/3. w00t!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Update-I've confirmed a time for a lesson in Byzantine chant with Fr. Salamy on 12/3. w00t!
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  8. #66
    Not a lot of new happenings this week. There was a new epistle and gospel reading of course, and the sermon was based on that. Chris is a very entertaining pastor. There was a prayer for the armed forces and civil government which kind of turned me off, but I’ll let it slide. My allergies are kind of bothering me, giving me a bit of dry mouth, so I elected not to get blessed bread. New this week was a dedication of babies, which I was impressed with. I have never before seen an orthodox dedication, so it was quite interesting to see Father Chris holding the children and making the sign of the cross with them.
    Although it will annoy our resident anti-orthodox types here, I again kissed the holy icons. I was less awkward about it, and Fr Salamy said “good job”.
    As usual, the choral music and chant was amazing. I am impress. J So, afterward I went to the fellowship hall for a bit. Deacon Abrahams saw me and motioned me to come over. He greeted me and we chatted a bit, and he introduced me to Fr Pheiffer, who speaks Russian. We had a brief chat in Russian. A very nice fellow. I chatted with friends for a while and had a snack. I had the sad that Phil’s mom wasn’t there to chat in Russian with. :/
    That’s all I can think of for now. More later if need be.

    btw, I am still disappoint hugz n' kissez aren't common.

    ETA: I'm behind on the NT reading challenge, but I'll catch up ASAP.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 11-24-2013 at 01:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Not a lot of new happenings this week. There was a new epistle and gospel reading of course, and the sermon was based on that. Chris is a very entertaining pastor. There was a prayer for the armed forces and civil government which kind of turned me off, but I’ll let it slide. My allergies are kind of bothering me, giving me a bit of dry mouth, so I elected not to get blessed bread. New this week was a dedication of babies, which I was impressed with. I have never before seen an orthodox dedication, so it was quite interesting to see Father Chris holding the children and making the sign of the cross with them.
    Although it will annoy our resident anti-orthodox types here, I again kissed the holy icons. I was less awkward about it, and Fr Salamy said “good job”.
    As usual, the choral music and chant was amazing. I am impress. J So, afterward I went to the fellowship hall for a bit. Deacon Abrahams saw me and motioned me to come over. He greeted me and we chatted a bit, and he introduced me to Fr Pheiffer, who speaks Russian. We had a brief chat in Russian. A very nice fellow. I chatted with friends for a while and had a snack. I had the sad that Phil’s mom wasn’t there to chat in Russian with. :/
    That’s all I can think of for now. More later if need be.

    btw, I am still disappoint hugz n' kissez aren't common.

    ETA: I'm behind on the NT reading challenge, but I'll catch up ASAP.
    The amount of hugz n' kissez are parish dependent! It is a cultural phenomenon! Here in the west, hugz n' kissez during greeting are not as commonplace as it is in European/Middle Eastern cultures and this is also reflected in many of the parishes here in the US, especially in the southern states. But these things are merely cultural and cultures change depending on the people. Who knows?! Perhaps you will be part of the reason why your parish will one day begin to show more of such types of warm greetings!


    This should not be any reason to discourage you. Your main purpose amongst the assembly of believers (that is, the ekklessia, translated: the church) is to come together as members of one body in worship of God and to assist one another and the whole world through prayer and fellowship. The church is not called 'Apostolic' simply because it is directly connected to, and built upon, the teachings of the Apostles, but because we all have been sent on a mission (the actual translation of the world apostle is to send on a mission) to proclaim the Gospel and pray and love one another. Sometimes this includes lots of huggin, and sometimes tearful prayer.

    Where are you at with your reading through of the NT? Perhaps we can go through it together? I have a great book written by St. Theophylact which goes line by line through the NT offering Patristic commentary. This book has LOTS of pearls of wisdom!
    Last edited by TER; 11-24-2013 at 03:38 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    The amount of hugz n' kissez are parish dependent! It is a cultural phenomenon! Here in the west, hugz n' kissez during greeting are not as commonplace as it is in European/Middle Eastern cultures and this is also reflected in many of the parishes here in the US, especially in the southern states. But these things are merely cultural and cultures change depending on the people. Who knows?! Perhaps you will be part of the reason why your parish will one day begin to show more of such types of warm greetings!


    This should not be any reason to discourage you. Your main purpose amongst the assembly of believers (that is, the ekklessia, translated: the church) is to come together as members of one body in worship of God and to assist one another and the whole world through prayer and fellowship. The church is not called 'Apostolic' simply because it is directly connected to, and built upon, the teachings of the Apostles, but because we all have been sent on a mission (the actual translation of the world apostle is to send on a mission) to proclaim the Gospel and pray and love one another. Sometimes this includes lots of huggin, and sometimes tearful prayer.

    Where are you at with your reading through of the NT? Perhaps we can go through it together?
    I have a great book written by St. Theophylact which goes line by line through the NT offering Patristic commentary. This book has LOTS of pearls of wisdom!
    I'm up to Matthew 9:18 as of this writing. I think for tonight I'm going to skip up to today's reading-Luke chapter 1-3 and catch up on Matthew later.

    I'm not too discouraged WRT the lack of hugz n' kissez. The worship is so beautiful and sincere it mostly makes up for what it lacks.

    btw, the Orthdox study bible you suggested to me a year or so ago is still in my amazon cart. I plan to buy a copy when I pay off my bills in 1-3 months or so.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 11-24-2013 at 04:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I'm up to Matthew 9:18 as of this writing. I think for tonight I'm going to skip up to today's reading-Luke chapter 1-3 and catch up on Matthew later.

    I'm not too discouraged WRT the lack of hugz n' kissez. The worship is so beautiful and sincere it mostly makes up for what it lacks.

    btw, the Orthdox study bible you suggested to me a year or so ago is still in my amazon cart. I plan to buy a copy when I pay off my bills in 1-3 months or so.
    Luke 1-3 it is! (as a physician, there is a special place in my heart for St. Luke In fact, my residency training was in a hospital named after him.

    green73, if you are reading this, join our reading group!
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  12. #70
    With regards to churching of the infant which you witnessed today...

    The 40 Day Churching of Infants
    The biblical history of "churching" infants 40 days after birth


    The Church Tradition

    The Feast of "Our Lord's Presentation in the Temple, (Feb 2) " takes place 40 days after the Nativity of Christ or Christmas. The readings for the Divine Liturgy that day are as follows: Epistle Lesson: Hebrews 7:7-17; and Gospel Lesson: Luke 2:22-40.

    Christ was presented to the Temple in obedience to the Mosaic Law which he as the Messiah had come to fulfill. The parents would bring the child along with a sacrifice, "a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons."

    Why did Jesus submit to the Law?

    Jesus submitted to the Law so that the Law might be fulfilled in Him, and in all who accept Jesus as Messiah. The old people, Simeon and Anna symbolize the dying of the Old Covenant and the establishing of the New Covenant in Christ.

    The Purification of Mary

    The Hebrew Tradition of Leviticus 12 portrays a woman as being unclean for forty days after the birth of a male child and 80 days after the birth of a female child. The woman would come with a lamb, if she could afford it, or if not, two turtle doves or two pigeons. Mary and Joseph were poor because they could not offer a lamb, but offered two turtles doves. However, Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

    Purification

    Human beings feel impure in the presence of God, it is a humbling experience. Such times occur at birth and death. Giving birth is not a sin, neither is conceiving a child, however coming to the Church and acknowledging Him as the Giver of Life and thanking Him for protecting the Mother during child birth is why it is now done.

    Church Tradition

    The woman has been absent from the Liturgy for forty days since the birth of her child and is in need of re-establishing herself in the assembly of the Church. She enters the Church, having encountered the miracle of Birth and prayers of thanksgiving are offered for having protected the mother during child birth. The child is also prayed over for God to watch over it and protect it until the time for its baptism. The Child is brought before the icons of Christ and up the steps in front of the Royal Gates of the Holy Altar and offered to God.
    Last edited by TER; 11-24-2013 at 06:09 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  13. #71
    Coincidentally, it is in Luke chapter 2 (which we are studying tonight) where we learn how the baby Jesus was presented to the temple at 40 days old. So you witnessed today a practice started by Moses (as instructed by God), fulfilled by Jesus, and continued by the Church.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    The amount of hugz n' kissez are parish dependent!
    I'll trade ya. I'm a Midwesterner of German descent. MEN DON'T HUG where I'm from!!!! I might have hugged my dad once or twice in spontaneity and my grandfathers (who I loved a lot) never.

    Now I live in an area with a lot of hippies who always want to hug me. I put up with it, but it's a cross I bear.





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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Not a lot of new happenings this week. There was a new epistle and gospel reading of course, and the sermon was based on that. Chris is a very entertaining pastor. There was a prayer for the armed forces and civil government which kind of turned me off, but I’ll let it slide....
    Concerning the part of Liturgy where we pray for the President, civil authorities, and the armed forces. I too had an issue with this because it seemed like the church was supporting the evil that these men do. However, my priest explains it as this:

    "First, we don't pray for the mission of the troops, we pray for the human souls on both sides of conflict. We must remember that even men who do evil are not beyond salvation. We pray for a peaceful resolution and that armed conflict would quickly come to an end.

    Concerning the President and civil authorities, like St. Paul says in Romans, government can be used to bring peace and to punish the wicked. The President is in need of salvation just as much as we are. We pray that he has the wisdom to do the will of God. Not an endorsement, but a plea."

    One can certainly differ on opinion and still pray for the person. In fact, if we condemn evil, but don't pray for the evil doer, it's worthless.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew5 View Post
    Concerning the part of Liturgy where we pray for the President, civil authorities, and the armed forces. I too had an issue with this because it seemed like the church was supporting the evil that these men do. However, my priest explains it as this:

    "First, we don't pray for the mission of the troops, we pray for the human souls on both sides of conflict. We must remember that even men who do evil are not beyond salvation. We pray for a peaceful resolution and that armed conflict would quickly come to an end.

    Concerning the President and civil authorities, like St. Paul says in Romans, government can be used to bring peace and to punish the wicked. The President is in need of salvation just as much as we are. We pray that he has the wisdom to do the will of God. Not an endorsement, but a plea."

    One can certainly differ on opinion and still pray for the person. In fact, if we condemn evil, but don't pray for the evil doer, it's worthless.
    Exactly! The way you described that part of the prayer litany (that is, the prayer for the civil authorities and military) is how it was explained to me. Namely, that we pray for their souls, not exactly how they are leading or why they are fighting. It is not an endorsement at all, but a petition for their souls that they do what is good and according to the will of God.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew5 View Post
    In fact, if we condemn evil, but don't pray for the evil doer, it's worthless.
    That is a very good point and covers every instance in which we condemn sin and evil. It is completely worthless to condemn the sin, but not to pray for and help the sinner.

  19. #76
    Finished my reading for tonight. ATM, my favorite is Luke 1:52. He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Finished my reading for tonight. ATM, my favorite is Luke 1:52. He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble
    The Magnificat. Only of the earliest hymns of the Church.
    Last edited by TER; 11-24-2013 at 10:42 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    The Magnificat. Only of the earliest hymns of the Church.
    Да! While we're on that subject:
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  22. #79
    Just wanted to bump this for green to see what he thought of the gospel reading last night. Today's gospel is Luke 4-7.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  23. #80
    today's reading is Luke chapter 8-11, btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  25. #81
    Was quite late today because my ride was late. I was armed with my mini recorder and recorded audio of everything I was present for, though. SUCH a beautiful liturgy. I'm on my 3rd listening as I write. Next week I'll get a recording of the whole thing. I can post what I have in this thread if there's interest in it. (not the greatest quality because the dictation recorder isn't designed for recording music, but it's good enough for my purposes)

    ETA: As always, I kissed the icons along with my fellow parishoners. I don't care if sola_fide's head explodes-I will continue doing it.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 12-01-2013 at 04:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Was quite late today because my ride was late. I was armed with my mini recorder and recorded audio of everything I was present for, though. SUCH a beautiful liturgy. I'm on my 3rd listening as I write. Next week I'll get a recording of the whole thing. I can post what I have in this thread if there's interest in it. (not the greatest quality because the dictation recorder isn't designed for recording music, but it's good enough for my purposes)

    ETA: As always, I kissed the icons along with my fellow parishoners. I don't care if sola_fide's head explodes-I will continue doing it.
    We have a new priest in our parish (our beloved Father George was sent to another parish whose priest just retired). Our new priest Father Athanasius is straight from Greece and very traditional and very spiritual. He is in his late 40's, about 6'3" tall, solidly built with a long grey bread. He could easily play the role as Moses in a Frank Zefferrilli movie! lol

    The striking thing about him is although he has the frame of a pro wrestler, he is such a warm, kind hearted and meek soul. The children are automatically attracted to him. We are so happy to have him. The only problem is he knows very little English, which isn't that big of a deal since my parish is mostly first and second generation Greek-Americans. Thankfully, one of our parishoners who is an English teacher is giving him weekly lessons.

    He has the most beautiful voice and performs the liturgy so reverently. It is other-worldly. . While we are sad that our beloved Father George has left us (many believe he will one day be Bishop), we are blessed to have such a loving shepherd in our community.

    HB, when and if you can, please post the audio of the liturgy. I haven't yet had the privilege to attend an Antiochian service and would love to hear how it sounds.
    Last edited by TER; 12-01-2013 at 04:06 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  27. #83
    I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before. ->
    http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003

    Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation. Also, my ride was late, so I missed quite a bit of the first part of the service. :/

    ETA: Special thanks to Matthew5, who generously gifted me an amazon gift card so I could buy the recorder I used to make the recording.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 12-01-2013 at 10:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before. ->
    http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003

    Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation.
    Thank you HB!

    The choir is absolutely beautiful. They sound better then some professional recordings I have heard. I can imagine how it must sound to hear it live filling the space of the church.

    How many people are on the choir?
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before. ->
    http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003

    Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation.
    Beautiful

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Thank you HB!

    The choir is absolutely beautiful. They sound better then some professional recordings I have heard. I can imagine how it must sound to hear it live filling the space of the church.

    How many people are on the choir?
    My guess is 30-40 voices in the choir. They are in the back behind everyone and elevated a full story above, so it's hard to see them clearly (and during liturgy the light is rather dim which makes it harder yet). The voices fill the room in a most wonderful way, as you can only begin to imagine from the recording. I think even a high quality 24-50 track recording couldn't do justice to the sound.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before. ->
    http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003

    Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation. Also, my ride was late, so I missed quite a bit of the first part of the service. :/

    ETA: Special thanks to Matthew5, who generously gifted me an amazon gift card so I could buy the recorder I used to make the recording.
    Good deal, glad it's useful!

    Reminds me of a story that happened to one of our inquirers as he was visiting a monastery. He records every service he attends because he's a pastor at an Evangelical church and can't always attend services, so he likes to play back the services when he has private time. Well, he got the chance to go to a monastery during our parish's men's retreat. They attend an Hours service their first morning (which in a monastery really is the third hour of the day!) so it's completely dark in the chapel, save for the candles used during the service. Well, his recorder has a large red light at the end of it. He didn't ask the Abbot if he could record so he put it in a discreet location on a bench. As the Abbot was walking by and censing the chapel, he saw the light and thought it was the dying embers from a spent candle. He promptly picks up the recorder and throws it on the ground. When he hears the metallic crack, he picks it up and takes it to the light. He stopped the service to profusely apologize to the pastor. The other guys are doing everything they can to keep from cracking up.

    He said he learned his lesson, always give the priest a head's up when you're going to be recording.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    My guess is 30-40 voices in the choir. They are in the back behind everyone and elevated a full story above, so it's hard to see them clearly (and during liturgy the light is rather dim which makes it harder yet). The voices fill the room in a most wonderful way, as you can only begin to imagine from the recording. I think even a high quality 24-50 track recording couldn't do justice to the sound.
    Man, I'm jealous! Our choir is, to put it nicely, not very good. Granted, they are getting better since restarting after a several year hiatus. Actually thinking of joining, though I am a modest singer. But our parish is very small and the pool of gifted singers is in the single digits. But thank God, we are growing every day. God is good and the love in the community is growing stronger and stronger. Now with our new priest, I have faith we will grow together as friends until the end of our days.

    HB, the choir in your church are superb, outstanding. What a wonderful blessing! When I go to Arizona, I will visit.

    Between the angelic voices of the choir and the praying of the people, this is a magnificently beautiful liturgy. You are very blessed HB to have such beauty so close to you. All these years you lived just miles from it and never knew it. Brings to mind this Norman Rockwell painting:



    You are very blessed my friend and may He continue to bless you in your journey.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Man, I'm jealous! Our choir is, to put it nicely, not very good. Granted, they are getting better since restarting after a several year hiatus. Actually thinking of joining, though I am a modest singer. But our parish is very small and the pool of gifted singers is in the single digits. But thank God, we are growing every day. God is good and the love in the community is growing stronger and stronger. Now with our new priest, I have faith we will grow together as friends until the end of our days.

    HB, the choir in your church are superb, outstanding. What a wonderful blessing! When I go to Arizona, I will visit.

    Between the angelic voices of the choir and the praying of the people, this is a magnificently beautiful liturgy. You are very blessed HB to have such beauty so close to you. All these years you lived just miles from it and never knew it. Brings to mind this Norman Rockwell painting:

    You are very blessed my friend and may He continue to bless you in your journey.
    Thank you, my friend! Really, I owe you and eduardo a great debt for helping me find my way to Orthodoxy and to St George Parish in particular. ~hugs~ I greatly look forward to you visiting my church one day, my friend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  35. #90
    There is a beautiful monastery in Arizona that I plan on visiting as well. So many places, so little time!! And these bones are getting heavier!!
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

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