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Whether they were out of line or not, the internal investigation will ALWAYS clear them. The police ALWAYS stand with their brothers no matter how vile. (unless a miracle happens). With that in mind, we need to stand with the victims of these killings because, who else will demand justice, the government?
I feel so sad for the family that lost there child; don't know what to say except, "sorry to hear about your loss". I bet the shooters are not having their best day either... very sad.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
It's really sad that so many are making excuses for, or empathizing with, cops who killed a child in cold blood.
Just proves to me that a society such as this is doomed.
The panty-wastes out in Ca. will put out flowers and seek therapy but those murders will not be held accountable.
Last edited by puppetmaster; 10-24-2013 at 05:05 AM.
"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
James Madison
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams
Μολὼν λάβε
Dum Spiro, Pugno
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
I wonder, how often are cops sued personally? Most people can't afford to sue. Lawyers like cases that earn them big profits. Lawyers may push their clients to sue municipalities instead where profit margin is greater. End result, cop doesn't get sued, tax payer does. If only there was a civil rights advocacy group that could sue on the peoples behalf, oh, that's right, the aclu. LOL. The aclu would go after the tax payer too.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
I can't help but notice a theme that the story is the police thought the gun was real. Uh... even if it were a real gun, carrying a gun is NOT a justification for killing a person. It is not like there were reports of him shooting people or anything. The cops just rolled up on a person and shot him because he was holding a gun. So now bearing arms is to be considered justifiable homicide?
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
SMFH. I really have nothing to say at this point that wouldn't cross forum guidelines.
Will Grigg:
A “Fearful” Police Mindset Leads to a Dead Child
“The deputy’s mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot,” said Lt. Paul Henry of the Santa Rosa Police Department by way of explaining how 13-year-old Andy Lopez, who was “armed” with a BB gun, was gunned on October 22.
Lopez was on his way to visit a classmate named Luis Diaz when he was spotted by Sonoma County Sheriff’s Deputies on routine patrol. He was carrying an airsoft “rifle” — a plastic toy that fires plastic BBs — that superficially resembles an AK-47 rifle, but can easily be identified as a toy by casual observers. Diaz told the Santa Rosa Press-Democrat that the last time he saw Lopez use the gun “it fell and the whole front of it broke in half so you could see the wires coming out…. You could tell it’s fake, easily.”
During a press conference held in the wake of the fatal shooting, police displayed the airsoft toy next to an actual AK-47, apparently for the purpose of demonstrating how similar the replica is to the real article. However, “in the light of the Finley Center the model Lopez carried was clearly plastic with a transparent center section. The BB gun also had a shorter barrel.” The fatal encounter between Lopez and the deputies took place at 3:15 in the afternoon, which means that such critical details were not obscured by twilight, and should have been recognized by people who are supposedly trained observers.
After spotting Lopez walking on the sidewalk, the deputies called for backup and pulled up behind him. They drew their guns, took cover behind the vehicle’s open doors, and ordered Lopez to “drop the gun.” The youngster, who was about 20 to 30 feet away from the officers, turned around to face the deputies — and was immediately shot. The entire encounter — from the time the deputies called for backup, to the fatal shooting — to just a few seconds.
According to Lt. Henry, the deputy who opened fire was a “law enforcement veteran” who “has quite a bit of experience with this kind of weapon,” meaning, presumably, an actual AK-47, rather than an obvious toy replica. “He’s aware of the damage these kinds of weapons can do” and that they can fire rounds able to “penetrate body armor, can penetrate the metal of his vehicle, and also the sides of houses and buildings in the area.”
Although that statement was offered by way of extenuation, it underscores the preoccupation with “officer safety” that leads to unnecessary police shootings. A peace officer is paid to assume certain risks, including those necessary to de-escalate a confrontation with someone believed to be a heavily armed suspect in a residential neighborhood. A “veteran” deputy with the mindset of a peace officer would have taken more than a shaved fraction of a split-second to open fire on a small male individual readily identifiable as a junior high school student, who was carrying an object that is easily recognizable as a toy — at least to people who don’t see themselves as an army of occupation, and view the public as an undifferentiated mass of menace.
So, is Lt. Henry a good cop or a bad cop?.... I don't care, because he is part of a system that perpetuates such abuse. A system that needs to be abolished. This in response to that other thread.According to Lt. Henry, the deputy who opened fire was a “law enforcement veteran” who “has quite a bit of experience with this kind of weapon,” meaning, presumably, an actual AK-47, rather than an obvious toy replica. “He’s aware of the damage these kinds of weapons can do” and that they can fire rounds able to “penetrate body armor, can penetrate the metal of his vehicle, and also the sides of houses and buildings in the area.”
Let me put it to you in a way you understand.
First the good cops in the law enforcement industry don't get attacked by anyone in these forms. The scumbag that did this is not a good cop, he like other cops are paid well, and in NO WAY SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN THE AUTHORITY THEY ARE GIVEN to act impulsively like an idiot soccer mom and tears morgan in a possible gun scenario. Especially when firing a weapon at what could be a $#@!ing kid (i'm angry at the cops here not you btw) before even GIVING HIM A CHANCE to drop his "weapon".
Understand? They receive THOUSANDS of dollars, TRAIN, not to act like rabid dog with a gun. So what does he do? He acts like Rosie o'$#@!ing Donald, when he hears of a person with a weapon, and starts popping rounds like the very lunatic he is paid to defend the society from. Remember that you are getting upset, that citizens here on "our internetz" are ridiculing A LUNATIC WITH A GUN. Your reason?! Simply because he has a badge! As a gun owner, I am appalled.
Cops even deal with the court of law and should have more than the average awareness for the laws of our land. Now, do you understand?
The way this idiot acted had NOTHING to do with fearing for his life. What he did was ROUTINE procedure and is only shocking because the truth of the incident finally dawned on the cops because the media got a hold of it. This is a clear indication of corrupt cultural and unconstitutional behavior in their department. That you call for back up if you receive a call of a possible weapon, SHOOT first, then ask your questions later, because the courts and department will get you off later eventually.
If police department really had a better standard they wouldn't even BOTHER trying to make excuses for what happened. It would be no comment, unpaid leave for dumbass, and try to work with the community to help them cope.
They as a organization have NO concern to INVESTIGATE, deescalate a situation, stay calm in the line of duty, no professionalism with caution, and certainly no regard for the life that may be taken. Remember this next time you see a cop attack story. The good cops don't GET criticized by us. In a nation with millions in the police force, posters are showing you what the bottom scum of the barrel have done. Good cops don't NEED to worry about you defending them or their organizations. Hell criticism will help them clear their trade of the scum if anything.
Last edited by Athan; 10-24-2013 at 01:10 PM.
For the Republic! For the Cause!
The Truth About Central Banking and Business Cycles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxIPPMR3fI#t=186
Murderer!
I hope dad gets justice.
"IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!"let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482"For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik LehnsherrThere's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho
What do I win?After spotting Lopez walking on the sidewalk, the deputies called for backup and pulled up behind him. They drew their guns, took cover behind the vehicle’s open doors, and ordered Lopez to “drop the gun.” The youngster, who was about 20 to 30 feet away from the officers, turned around to face the deputies — and was immediately shot. The entire encounter — from the time the deputies called for backup, to the fatal shooting — to just a few seconds.
A “veteran” deputy with the mindset of a peace officer would have taken more than a shaved fraction of a split-second to open fire on a small male individual readily identifiable as a junior high school student, who was carrying an object that is easily recognizable as a toy — at least to people who don’t see themselves as an army of occupation, and view the public as an undifferentiated mass of menace.
Harry: Ken, if I had killed a little kid, accidentally or otherwise, I wouldn't have thought twice. I'd killed myself on the $#@!ing spot. On the $#@!ing spot. I would've stuck the gun in me mouth. On the $#@!ing spot!
"IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!"let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482"For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik LehnsherrThere's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho
"IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!"let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482"For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik LehnsherrThere's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho
Officer who Shot Toy Rifle-Holding Teen Had Pulled Gun During Traffic Stop a Few Months Ago
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/04/of...e-holding-teen
Sometimes reckless officer behavior that doesn't kill someone can be a sign, as reported in the UK Daily Mail:
A driver has come forward saying the deputy who shot dead a 13-year-old California boy after mistaking his fake AK-47 as real pulled a gun on him also, after he failed to signal a lane change during a carpool.
Jeff Westbrook, 57, of Santa Rosa said he was mistreated by Deputy Erick Gelhaus after being pulled over Aug. 21 in Cotati, so much so that at one point he asked Gelhaus: 'Sir, is there something wrong with you?'
'I felt like I was watching somebody I needed to help,' Mr Westbrook, a program manager at an information technology company, told CBS of Gelhaus.
'This was not right. He did not manage this correctly.'
Gelhaus shot Andy Lopez seven times at a Santa Rosa parking after recieving reports of a suspicious and believing his toy machine gun was real.
Mr Westbrook was pulled over by Gelhaus for not using his indicator.
He said he pulled into a shoulder, but offered to move the car forward because there was not much room next to the driver door for Gelhaus.
When the car started moving, Gelhaus is alleged to have drawn his gun.
'It was about a foot from by face,' Westbrook said.
'I've never had a gun pointed at me before.'
Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
--Albert J. Nock
The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)· tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
I never heard of a Hell's Angel gunning down a kid. And they are considered the outlaws?
You know what I am getting tired of? I'm getting tired of these cases where the facts are fully known, often displayed in unmistakable raw footage. The facts are right there, but these dirty pieces of filth still get away with it.
That's what I'm getting tired of.
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