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Thread: What do you think are the benefits of a government shutdown / debt ceiling not being raised?

  1. #1

    What do you think are the benefits of a government shutdown / debt ceiling not being raised?

    From lurking over the past few weeks, I know theres been tidbits and such forth mentioned here and there, though it seems much of the focus is still on Obamacare.

    The mainstream media is all reporting how the government's shutdown will affect your every day life, and what not, and continuously talking about how it can harm you.

    But how do you think it could help you, or at least, the nation?
    Just interested in everyone's perspectives

    Sorry if I missed a thread regarding this



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  3. #2
    There is no benefit. Its a method called Govern by Crisis.

    They get what they want by creating a Problem in order to achieve their goals.

    They create a Problem, to which, only they have a Solution.
    The people have a Reaction to the Problem and demand they impose their Solution.
    The Solution is imposed, even though the burden of the Solution is carrid by those who stand to lose the most, yet is supported by those who can least afford it.

    Its a dog and pony show. If we want a Real Solution, lets think seriously about getting rid of Central Banks, Fractional Reserve Lending, and Fiat Currencies. It is these things that have created the Problem - Reaction - Solution paradigm.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  4. #3
    It's not possible to get rid of Obamacare with getting the presidency and senate. A shutdown on that will get the GOP blamed and do real damage.

    The debt ceiling fight is worth fighting. People have had enough and support is there. I don't a shutdown on that issue will be nearly as damaging to the GOP.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    There is no benefit. Its a method called Govern by Crisis.

    They get what they want by creating a Problem in order to achieve their goals.

    They create a Problem, to which, only they have a Solution.
    The people have a Reaction to the Problem and demand they impose their Solution.
    The Solution is imposed, even though the burden of the Solution is carrid by those who stand to lose the most, yet is supported by those who can least afford it.

    Its a dog and pony show. If we want a Real Solution, lets think seriously about getting rid of Central Banks, Fractional Reserve Lending, and Fiat Currencies. It is these things that have created the Problem - Reaction - Solution paradigm.
    Well, that would be fixing a problem created by the real problem. If we really want to fix the underlying problems in this country, we need to:

    GET A SQUADRON OF B-52's AND CARPET BOMB "K" STREET TILL NOTHING IS LEFT BUT RUBBLE!


    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    It's not possible to get rid of Obamacare with getting the presidency and senate. A shutdown on that will get the GOP blamed and do real damage.

    The debt ceiling fight is worth fighting. People have had enough and support is there. I don't a shutdown on that issue will be nearly as damaging to the GOP.
    It would depend on who's left standing in the game of musical chairs. If the house holds firm and puts back in the defunding, it goes back to Reid. If he refuses to consider the bill, he's "it". The House approved a budget. If it passes the Senate and Obama veto's it, he's the one shutting down the government.

    -t

  6. #5
    If the House passes a bill defunding Obamacare and doesn't cave, a shutdown will be worth it because Obama won't tolerate having the government closed for 2 years, so at some point he will cave, and Obamacare won't get funded.

    If not raising the debt ceiling leads to default, that will be positive because the government would no longer be able to borrow money which it uses to grow the government.

  7. #6
    Libertarians getting blamed and looking like we're butthurt as they would make the temporary shutdown look as bad as possible. Sounds like a winning strategy.

    I'm not even going to read or post in what I'm sure is a train-wreck of a thread regarding Rand being torn on this. Torn is an optimistic view. IMO, it would be tearing off your nose to spit on your face. It's not a victory, it's a way for them to take heat off themselves and transfer it to the small-government advocates, like what they did with the sequesters, but to the extreme.

    You all want REAL change? And you think this is that? This would be nothing but horribly misguided politics to go through with it. Look at the big picture, not just with our "$#@! big government" lenses. You know the statists are looking at the big picture and salivating at them making a move like this..

    You don't have to abandon principle to realize what are good and bad strategies to achieve those means. This would be a bad one.
    Last edited by TheGrinch; 09-28-2013 at 12:11 AM.
    I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than be living as a puppet or a slave - Peter Tosh

    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

  8. #7

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    It would depend on who's left standing in the game of musical chairs. If the house holds firm and puts back in the defunding, it goes back to Reid. If he refuses to consider the bill, he's "it". The House approved a budget. If it passes the Senate and Obama veto's it, he's the one shutting down the government.

    -t
    It won't pass the senate, so Obama will never see it. The GOP will be blamed. I don't think this one is worth it right now.

    Refusing to raise the debt ceiling will get far more public support. Obama's only arguments for raising it so far are "every other president got it raised" and "we have to pay our bills". That just isn't going to fly anymore. The public has had it with borrowing to pay for things.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    It won't pass the senate, so Obama will never see it. The GOP will be blamed. I don't think this one is worth it right now.

    Refusing to raise the debt ceiling will get far more public support. Obama's only arguments for raising it so far are "every other president got it raised" and "we have to pay our bills". That just isn't going to fly anymore. The public has had it with borrowing to pay for things.
    Once O'Care has it's roots spread throughout the system, it will require digging up the all of the leach lines and replacing them to get rid of it. And there are miles and miles of leach lines in this country, and that ain't going to happen until it's all abandoned.

    So, it depends. Do you want to save what's left and repair it, or just start over?
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 09-28-2013 at 08:28 AM.

  12. #10
    Bear with me.

    Four years ago the DC area got buried under three feet of snow. Readers in Michigan or Utah are thinking "so what?" but believe me, that is a big freaking deal in DC. I've been around here since 1986 and I can count on one hand the number of times there's been more than a foot. One foot paralyzes the area. Two feet, and people start repenting their sins. Three feet meant absolutely nothing was going on in DC. Nobody went to work. (Well, except for us private sector go-getters.)

    I remember reading an editorial shortly afterward that pointed out that for three days, as DC dug itself out, the Earth continued lazily spinning on its axis.

    Both sides learned something over those three days.
    The statists learned that they absolutely cannot allow the government to shut down. If they do, then people will figure out that the overwhelming majority of us will go on with life just fine without anyone telling them what to do.
    So all this shutdown talk is just that. Talk.
    If shut down, their game is all done. It's over.
    So they're never going to let that happen. They'll drive the car straight into the river, lock the doors, and watch us all drown first.

    On the other side, those who were paying attention learned the fatal flaw with conservative rhetoric.
    It's not spending that's the biggest problem - it's that they're doing something with that money.
    We've been living with giant deficits since the 1960's. We've been paying for socialized medicine for just as long.
    Deficits don't shut down your daughter's lemonade stand.
    Deficits don't throw you in jail for possession of plants.
    Socialized medicine doesn't break in your door and shoot your husband.

    It's not the money that's the problem - it's what they're doing. And the solution is obvious: pay them to go away.
    If we simply offered to everyone working in the Department of Education that they could stay home all day, or get other jobs, and still get paid, then there would be no Department in a week.
    Eventually they all die.

    But if a shutdown was allowed to happen, then people might start listening to me.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Once O'Care has it's roots spread throughout the system, it will require digging up the all of the leach lines and replacing them to get rid of it. And there are miles and miles of leach lines in this country, and that ain't going to happen until it's all abandoned.

    So, it depends. Do you want to save what's left and repair it, or just start over?
    Obamacare may fail on it's own, I don't discount the possibility. If not the country won't end in 3 years. If the GOP can take the senate and white house, which is possible, then they can end it. It's just rhetoric and talk now.

    The debt ceiling is winnable and the public will be more sympathetic IMO.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Obamacare may fail on it's own, I don't discount the possibility. If not the country won't end in 3 years. If the GOP can take the senate and white house, which is possible, then they can end it. It's just rhetoric and talk now.

    The debt ceiling is winnable and the public will be more sympathetic IMO.
    The GOP will end O'Care about the same time they end SSI and Medicare, bring the troops home and close foreign bases, stop toppling and interfering with other governments, etc. All of which destroy wealth and interfere with nature/mutual-rights.
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 09-28-2013 at 09:03 AM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RPforPrez. View Post
    From lurking over the past few weeks, I know theres been tidbits and such forth mentioned here and there, though it seems much of the focus is still on Obamacare.

    The mainstream media is all reporting how the government's shutdown will affect your every day life, and what not, and continuously talking about how it can harm you.

    But how do you think it could help you, or at least, the nation?
    Just interested in everyone's perspectives

    Sorry if I missed a thread regarding this

    I haven't read any of the other post yet. I'm thinking we need to look at this on a more personal level.

    Imagine this is just about you and your household. You've messed up your finances to the point the others in the household can no longer survive with helping you out. At some point you may have to file bankruptcy. It's brutal but it could be what's needed for you and the others.

    If you look at this in a national scale all of the money for those that hate has over taxed us to the point normal time honored businesses can no longer keep up with the fake money presses.

    Cutting them off could give the honest hard earned dollar a voice in the way things are done again and the nation can get back to work.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    The GOP will end O'Care about the same time they end SSI and Medicare, bring the troops home and close foreign bases, stop toppling and interfering with other governments, etc. All of which destroy wealth and interfere with nature/mutual-rights.
    Very possible but the GOP is undergoing big changes now. I'm cautiously optimistic.

  17. #15
    Thing is, even if they "shut it down", the vast majority of it will stay open for business. Sadly.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Thing is, even if they "shut it down", the vast majority of it will stay open for business. Sadly.
    Oh no it won't, the tube will tell us it's doom and gloom, end of the world fire and brimstone without big brother to save and guide us.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Very possible but the GOP is undergoing big changes now. I'm cautiously optimistic.
    Cautious is good.

    Let's say that we get more people in the senate like Ted Cruz or Rand, but they're not exactly like him or Rand. So, what they want to do in any particular instance is not completely understood or thought of as the "proper" or more "politically beneficial" way.

    How will that help? We just had an example of how even "somewhat liberty" politicians can have resistance or "lack of support" from other "somewhat liberty" politicians. "It's not politically expedient for 2016 to do this at this time" and other so called "excuses" to not take action then becomes "inaction".
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 09-28-2013 at 09:11 AM.

  21. #18
    roads?

    ROADS!
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?



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