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Thread: Government shutdown: Shutdown fight heads back to House

  1. #1

    Government shutdown: Shutdown fight heads back to House

    Government shutdown: Shutdown fight heads back to House

    The battle over averting an Oct. 1 government shutdown is back where it all started: The House.

    The Senate took a series of votes Friday to alter the Houseís first stab at a government spending bill, agreeing 54-44 to strip out language defunding Obamacare and changing the legislationís expiration date to Nov. 15. The bill cleared the chamber by the same margin on final passage.

    House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and his leadership team must now decide the next move.

    House Republicans will meet Saturday at noon, and will likely vote on a government funding bill after that.

    If the House takes up and passes the Senateís amended bill, a government shutdown will be avoided. If the lower chamber alters the bill to put back controversial Obamacare language, the Senate likely wonít have time to respond given the slow churn of the chamber, elevating prospects of a shutdown significantly.

    ...
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard



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  3. #2
    And after CONgress has funded everything fully, and raised the debt "ceiling," they can move onto another crisis. I'm guessing immigration reform.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  4. #3
    Can someone please explain why, if the house holds the purse, why does it matter what or how the senate votes? I know I don't fully understand how this works,.... I have just heard the saying that "the house holds the purse".
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Annie View Post
    Can someone please explain why, if the house holds the purse, why does it matter what or how the senate votes? I know I don't fully understand how this works,.... I have just heard the saying that "the house holds the purse".
    Only in the sense that any budgetary bill, spending bill, must originate in the house, but still both sides must pass the bill and then signed by the Executive.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by libertyjam View Post
    Only in the sense that any budgetary bill, spending bill, must originate in the house, but still both sides must pass the bill and then signed by the Executive.
    Thank you!
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Annie View Post
    Can someone please explain why, if the house holds the purse, why does it matter what or how the senate votes? I know I don't fully understand how this works,.... I have just heard the saying that "the house holds the purse".

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    And after CONgress has funded everything fully, and raised the debt "ceiling," they can move onto another crisis. I'm guessing immigration reform.
    Nah, they will pass another bill to repeal Obamacare.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Nah, they will pass another bill to repeal Obamacare.
    They should pass a bill to repeal Obamacare every day..



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptLouAlbano View Post
    LOL! I remember that from when I was a kid! Cute! But the reason I asked my stupid question is because over the last couple of years I have learned that there are other procedural rules that come into play that I don't know. For example, it is my understanding that a tax must originate in the house. I still don't get why this doesn't nullify the ACA since Roberts declared it constitutional on the basis of being a tax. If memory serves, the ACA originated in the senate.
    Yes, there are a lot of things that I am ignorant about when it comes to government...... I am not ashamed. I would rather learn than stay stupid!
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Annie View Post
    Can someone please explain why, if the house holds the purse, why does it matter what or how the senate votes? I know I don't fully understand how this works,.... I have just heard the saying that "the house holds the purse".
    House originates it. Senate agrees or makes their own changes but it can't go anywhere (to the president to sign) until both houses agree. Since the Senate made changes the House must aprove of the changes. If the House does not agree with the Senate bill and makes more changes, it goes back to the Senate again.

    As for ending the crisis- the Senate reduced the term of the temporay funding bill to expire in November (House bill would have lasted until December) when it will have to be taken up again- and that is apart from the budget ceiling issue which will hit in about two weeks.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-27-2013 at 02:13 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Noob View Post
    They should pass a bill to repeal Obamacare every day..
    They (the House) have now passed 42 of them this year- that averages about one a week.

  14. #12

  15. #13
    More political theater. The Republicrumbs will pretend to be fiscal conservatives and the Demorats will pretend to care for the weak and they will all posture and rant and ultimately agree to steal vast new sums of money and pour it into the hands of the special interests that run the show. Hohum.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    More political theater. The Republicrumbs will pretend to be fiscal conservatives and the Demorats will pretend to care for the weak and they will all posture and rant and ultimately agree to steal vast new sums of money and pour it into the hands of the special interests that run the show. Hohum.
    "We're all Republicrats now"
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    House originates it. Senate agrees or makes their own changes but it can't go anywhere (to the president to sign) until both houses agree. Since the Senate made changes the House must aprove of the changes. If the House does not agree with the Senate bill and makes more changes, it goes back to the Senate again.

    As for ending the crisis- the Senate reduced the term of the temporay funding bill to expire in November (House bill would have lasted until December) when it will have to be taken up again- and that is apart from the budget ceiling issue which will hit in about two weeks.
    Thank you for the explanation! What is your take on the ACA being deemed a tax and it not having originated in the house? I have heard this thrown around here and there..... but it has never had legs to go anywhere. But I guess as we can see with the vote for cloture, there are not that many legs interested in nullifying or getting rid of the law anyway, at least in the Senate.
    The one thing that I find bizarre,...... is that the dems are usually so united on all fronts. But yet, the republicans have very little unity. That is truly sad.... and certainly doesn't help. I am guessing that it just comes down to there being too many progressives in republican clothing?
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  18. #16
    The Democrats have claimed that the ACA was a modification of an existing piece of legislation and not "new spending". I don't remember the details of what they were "updating" but that was how they got it through by starting in the Senate. They claimed the Senate amended an already existing House bill (which still had to be re-voted on to pass both the House and Senate which they barely did).



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  20. #17
    i thought Harry Reid said he will table any bill out of the house. End of game.

  21. #18
    Govern by Crisis.

    If they tried getting away with this $#@! in the late 1700's, there would have been a Revolution that very night. Oh wait...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Nah, they will pass another bill to repeal Obamacare.
    I meant the O Duce admin. If Barry were smart, he would repeal that abortion.

    I guessed right.

    White House preps fall immigration push
    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ush-97490.html
    The White House is getting ready to launch a major fall blitz for immigration reform — this time, one that appears to be more about partisanship than partnership with Republicans.

    While Washington may be consumed in the latest continuing resolution crisis and debt ceiling drama, it’s also just days away from massive new push on an issue many had written off months ago.

    The political imperatives driving the latest immigration effort are clear: Obama can’t just abandon an issue that he promised to deliver on during his last campaign without suffering a major backlash from activists who helped elect him, and congressional Democrats are anxious to make sure Latino voters are motivated to punish Republicans at the polls in the 2014 mid-term election if there’s no law on the books by then.

    Still, the effort remains a delicate balancing act for the White House.

    Obama needs to keep frustrated activists angry at Republicans, not the White House and its Democratic allies in Congress.
    Yay. More drama and demagoguing.
    Last edited by Lucille; 09-28-2013 at 10:56 AM.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  23. #20
    Looking at my inbox, I see 5 messages from 5 liberal organizations telling me that the GOP is being unreasonable and is going to shutdown the government. Not one from the right pointing out that it's the Democrats who want to shut everything down over one single issue.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Looking at my inbox, I see 5 messages from 5 liberal organizations telling me that the GOP is being unreasonable and is going to shutdown the government. Not one from the right pointing out that it's the Democrats who want to shut everything down over one single issue.
    I got one from the RNC:

    Today, Harry Reid and his Democrat allies are opposing that legislation and placing us one step closer to a government shutdown. Harry Reid believes that ObamaCare has been so “wonderful for America” that he is willing to shut down the government to protect it.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The Democrats have claimed that the ACA was a modification of an existing piece of legislation and not "new spending". I don't remember the details of what they were "updating" but that was how they got it through by starting in the Senate. They claimed the Senate amended an already existing House bill (which still had to be re-voted on to pass both the House and Senate which they barely did).
    I don't remember the details either, but they stripped the text out of a totally unrelated bill that had already passed the Senate because they couldn't get their bill through the Senate after Brown took office.


    Democrats lost their 60th senate vote in early 2010 after Scott Brown took Edward Kennedy's seat. To bypass a Senate GOP filibuster and enact portions of ObamaCare, they used a special legislative procedure called reconciliation.


    Reconciliation allows a bill to pass the Senate in a limited time period, with limited amendments, and with only 51 votes; filibusters are not permitted. In 2010, Democrats split their health-policy changes into two bills, one of which they enacted through this fast-track process. In 2013, a Republican majority could use the same reconciliation process to repeal those changes.
    If the GOP could get 51 votes in the Senate, they could reverse it in exactly the same manner.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I don't remember the details either, but they stripped the text out of a totally unrelated bill that had already passed the Senate because they couldn't get their bill through the Senate after Brown took office.




    If the GOP could get 51 votes in the Senate, they could reverse it in exactly the same manner.
    As long as they could get some democrats to side with them for Cloture (60 votes) like the democrats just got some GOP to vote with them on Cloture for the CR bill with the Defunding of O'Care removed.



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