Do we have any Muslims here?

[Miss Annie]

I've seen ads for a TV show called "Amish Mafia," though I never watched it. And I have no doubt that there have been murders/rapes/horrors wrought upon others by Christians in the name of Christianity.

My point was: there are problems in ALL religions where the religion is used as an excuse--Muslims are no different. Hell, even Gandhi was racist towards blacks and Mother Teresa was not always the nicest person around. And dispensationalism is one of the biggest offenders in the dept of warmongering these days, even if you aren't one.

The things that I stated in the original post that you commented on are the norm in places where Sharia law rules. I am not saying that other religions don't have their "questionables", and yes... people have done and do horrible things in the name of every religion. The difference with Islam is that Sharia IS Islam.

[pcosmar]

I remember at least one. I think his name was Muwahid or something like that.

There have been a few here in the past,, and yes,, they were run off by rude..

a net loss.

[heavenlyboy34]

The things that I stated in the original post that you commented on are the norm in places where Sharia law rules. I am not saying that other religions don't have their "questionables", and yes... people have done and do horrible things in the name of every religion. The difference with Islam is that Sharia IS Islam.

Could it not be argued that Mosaic law IS Judaism? (and I use the term to include dietary laws and such as well as laws WRT civic conduct)

[ClydeCoulter]

Could it not be argued that Mosaic law IS Judaism? (and I use the term to include dietary laws and such as well as laws WRT civic conduct)

You mean stoning of rebellious children, adulterers, and the like?

[green73]

You mean stoning of rebellious children, adulterers, and the like?

They probably take little heed from from citizens of the world's largest murder and incarcerater.

[eduardo89]

They probably take little heed from from citizens of the world's largest murder and incarcerater.

The state?

[green73]

The state?

The citizens of thus. Who are they to criticize when "their" government is laying waste to peaceful peoples across the planet?

[Miss Annie]

Well I tell ya..... If the brutality that we are seeing every day out of the Middle East isn't waking people up, sort of reminds me of the rest of the general population seeing our rights being decimated before their eyes and just not giving a crap.....
Again, yes..... ALL religions have their atrocities..... But how many others are beheading Christians at an alarming rate right now? Is this just slipping through the cracks of everyone's minds?
Doesn't that at least make ya make ya scratch your head and go "hmmm..... maybe I should look into this"?

[green73]

Well I tell ya..... If the brutality that we are seeing every day out of the Middle East isn't waking people up, sort of reminds me of the rest of the general population seeing our rights being decimated before their eyes and just not giving a crap.....
Again, yes..... ALL religions have their atrocities..... But how many others are beheading Christians at an alarming rate right now? Is this just slipping through the cracks of everyone's minds?
Doesn't that at least make ya make ya scratch your head and go "hmmm..... maybe I should look into this"?

Yeah, your government is behind it.

[heavenlyboy34]

You mean stoning of rebellious children, adulterers, and the like?

Not necessarily. There are different types of Judaism. They had varying opinions on stuff like that. In the first century, the primary types were the Pharaisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and "The Fourth Philosophy"(it doesn't have another name, AFAIK). Even today jews disagree about all sorts of things. There aren't "sects"-just a bunch of divisions.

[Miss Annie]

Yeah, your government is behind it.

Duh, ya think? And don't think for a minute that its not planned for it to be coming to a city near you. The borders have been wide open. The arms have been free flowing, not to mention the efforts to disarm us. But .... oh it will be so much easier for it to be accomplished here because everyone will be "sheltered in place" for it.

[PierzStyx]

On this one, I am actually in total agreement with Sola. Islam has its own political, legal, and financial system. It is not just a religion,.... it is far beyond that. There are some Muslims though who do see the danger in political Islam though, Assad just happens to be one of those, go figure. He has said some very interesting things on political Islam.

So does Christianity. It always has and always will. That we don't recognize it now isn't because it isn't there, its because the West has secularized it away.

[PierzStyx]

Well I tell ya..... If the brutality that we are seeing every day out of the Middle East isn't waking people up, sort of reminds me of the rest of the general population seeing our rights being decimated before their eyes and just not giving a crap.....
Again, yes..... ALL religions have their atrocities..... But how many others are beheading Christians at an alarming rate right now? Is this just slipping through the cracks of everyone's minds?
Doesn't that at least make ya make ya scratch your head and go "hmmm..... maybe I should look into this"?

Every day Christians are murdering innocent men, women, and children. Christians set them on fire alive. Christians blow the limbs form their bodies. Christians rape their lands of their resources. In Iraq alone Christians killed over a million civilians in order for the Christians to force their rule on that country. Every day Christians are, right damn now committing atrocities in the name of God and Country. And they sing all hail to Jesus' name while doing it. Christians are just as bad as Muslims if not worse. A Muslim beheads a person. A Christian leader orders Christians to blow up entire countries of people.

[Sola_Fide]

So does Christianity. It always has and always will. That we don't recognize it now isn't because it isn't there, its because the West has secularized it away.

Really? What is the political system of Christianity? (What is "Christianity" to you? Polytheism?)

[Sola_Fide]

Every day Christians are murdering innocent men, women, and children. Christians set them on fire alive. Christians blow the limbs form their bodies. Christians rape their lands of their resources. In Iraq alone Christians killed over a million civilians in order for the Christians to force their rule on that country. Every day Christians are, right damn now committing atrocities in the name of God and Country. And they sing all hail to Jesus' name while doing it. Christians are just as bad as Muslims if not worse. A Muslim beheads a person. A Christian leader orders Christians to blow up entire countries of people.

So in your view, Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian crusades?

[PierzStyx]

Doesn't sound much different from some sects of the Latter Day Saints, the Amish and some other Christian sects combined with a bit of the mafia.

I think its technically "sects of Mormonism" as the Latter-day Saints are specifically members of The Church of Jesus Christ fo Latter-day Saints. And they do not do that.

[otherone]

So does Christianity. It always has and always will. That we don't recognize it now isn't because it isn't there, its because the West has secularized it away.

Man is a tribal animal.
People love to vilify all of Islam based on the actions of a few; but when Christians do horrific things the apologists bleat that those Christians aren't "real" Christians.

[Snew]

I remember at least one. I think his name was Muwahid or something like that.

yeah, good poster too!

[shane77m]

What's up with all of the new religion threads?

[Sola_Fide]

What's up with all of the new religion threads?

Keep em coming. What's more important than these ultimate questions? Politics? I don't think so.

[Christian Liberty]

So in your view, Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian crusades?

No, they weren't, but the fact remains that the majority of "Christians" do support this nonsense.

"God and Country" is a good name for the false religion of statolatry.

[PierzStyx]

So in your view, Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian crusades?

It is overwhelmingly true that when America attacks another nation it is Christians doing it. Christians flying the planes. Christians piloting the drones. Christians invading other countries. Christians putting to the torch men, women, and children, destroying their homes, ravaging their countries. Looking from the outside in it is easy to see how others might think it is Christianity that if not explicitly tells Americans to do these things, then at least justifies it. And many American Christian even use the Bible to justify it. So many Evangelicals want to bomb the Middle East into dust in order to protect Israel because they believe God commands them to it sickens me.

[PierzStyx]

Really? What is the political system of Christianity? (What is "Christianity" to you? Polytheism?)

You don't know? Well, I'll be. I thought you knew everything about the Bible, God's plan, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Sola_Fide]

It is overwhelmingly true that when America attacks another nation it is Christians doing it. Christians flying the planes. Christians piloting the drones. Christians invading other countries. Christians putting to the torch men, women, and children, destroying their homes, ravaging their countries.

Oh, that's overwhelmingly true, huh? What if a Christian could not engage in that murder or support a regime of murder?

Looking from the outside in it is easy to see how others might think it is Christianity that if not explicitly tells Americans to do these things, then at least justifies it. And many American Christian even use the Bible to justify it. So many Evangelicals want to bomb the Middle East into dust in order to protect Israel because they believe God commands them to it sickens me.

If people just say "I'm a Christian", then it's true? What if none of those murder supporters were Christians?

[Sola_Fide]

You don't know? Well, I'll be. I thought you knew everything about the Bible, God's plan, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You said that Christianity has a political system like Islam does. What is it?

[1stAmendguy]

First, you are not distinguishing between Biblical Christianity, which is anti-state, and Roman Catholicism, which is collectivistic and promotes world government.

Secondly, what kind of drugs do you have to be doing to not see that NONE of the most brutal dictatorships in history ever "put their hand on a Bible". Mao, Stalin, etc. All atheistic regimes to the core. That's YOUR legacy, you own it.

I don't know where to start with your assessment. First of all, you love to point out how your version of Christianity is "distinguished" from roman Catholicism, and you mention in other posts protestantism etc and your beliefs bare no burden for the bad things done under Jesus' name, but you have no problem lumping all atheists beliefs into a legacy left by dictators. You can't have it both ways. Either you backtrack on saying all atheists beliefs are wrapped up in a legacy left by them or I get to say you have to answer for all the bad things done in Christianity regardless of denomination. Of course, I'm not saying yours fits with the latter but this fetish people like you get in saying that Stalin Mao "atheist regimes!" is wrongheaded to begin with. Furthermore, you are still stubbornly not acknowledging that atheism is not a worldview, so any application to it being the infamous dictators root source for their evil is stupid.

[ibaghdadi]

It would be great to hear from you.

There used to be, before this place became inhospitable to us.

No offense, but certain discussions made me feel like Jewish person attending a neo-Nazi rally.

When I left, several years ago, I left a farewell note.

I've since built quite an online following on Twitter (and Facebook), where I can get far more interactions and can at least block the crazier ones.

The reason I'm browsing RPF now is because I'm "officially" offline. Since the death of a close friend in Egypt, I've been keeping a low profile for my & my family's safety.

In the meanwhile I'm concentrating on my writing project, "The Arab Spring Manifesto", which is an Islamic Libertarian manifesto. I've also been working on a popular satirical project, "The Arab Tyrant's Manual".

Meanwhile, I still get messages pleading with me to explain to this-or-that "hater" that Muslims can be good people. This is how I normally respond.

[TER]

Meanwhile, I still get messages pleading with me to explain to this-or-that "hater" that Muslims can be good people.

It is nice to see you igbagdadi. Unfortunately it seems you haven't changed much in your sophomoric attempts at adding unnecessary drama to the forum. Have you been called as backup to defend the accusations of Christians? Then defend the accusations being made rather then going for the trademark drama which you posted above. Muwahid and I are having a good discussion on the merits of Muhammad's claims. Would you like to comment on them, or ignore the issue?

No one said Muslims cannot be good people. Some of the most lovely and caring people I know are Muslims. These are people who I welcome in my house and have been the closest of friends with for over 20 years. A man who was my deceased father-in-law's closest friend and has been like a second father to my wife is a devout Muslim. There are few people I have met who I respect more in my life, such a good soul this man is. No one in the past few weeks in this forum and running debate has said such a statement to say that Muslims are in general not good people, so please spare us the drama. They are still children of the same God, loved by Him and cared by Him, even in spite of the fact that they follow a prophet who was deceived.

I am sorry if my belief that Muhammad was inspired by a jinn hurts you, but it is the logical explanation from a Christian perspective. This is not a charge against the individual Muslim who has been indoctrinated by the lie that he was some awaited prophet when he simply wasn't. Everyone will give their own defense on the reasons why they did not believe Christ to be the Savior, and I leave God to be as judge. In other words, no one is condemning Muslims to hell in this running debate. I trust Christ is a much better judge than anyone of else.

But it is this same Christ Who has already warned us about people such as Muhammad who would come to lead the people astray from Him. It is neither a crime nor an offense to warn people about Muhammad's lie. It is the rather the Christian duty to defend the truth and the children of God from a possessed philandering war-mongering pedophile who spoke untruths against Christ and had deceived so many people. Luckily I live in a country where I can do this without threat of torture and death (at least for now), though I wonder in your 'libertarian' opinion if you believe I should have that right. If so, then I welcome you to contribute to our debate with facts rather then accusatory emotional posts like above. It would be interesting to see how you can defend the claim being put forward that Muhammad was prophesied by the Christians and Jews and that the original apostolic Christian belief was that Jesus was not put on the cross when the weight of the history of the world says otherwise.

[pcosmar]

There used to be,

Nice to see you again.

I am not on FB all that much.. But still have you as a friend.

[pcosmar]

It is nice to see you igbagdadi. Unfortunately it seems you haven't changed much in your sophomoric attempts at adding unnecessary drama to the forum.

Woah,, i remember when he left.. and it was due to a lot of anti-Muslim attacks.

There were a couple of others,, activists during Ron's first run. and they were made less than welcome here.

It is not "drama".. it is a fact.