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Thread: Rand Paul op-ed: President Putin, America Is Exceptional

  1. #1

    Rand Paul op-ed: President Putin, America Is Exceptional

    Sen. Rand Paul: President Putin, America Is Exceptional
    It is our exceptionalism—and our separation of powers—that has kept us out of war in Syria.

    By Sen. Rand Paul
    Sept. 13, 2013

    A recent op-ed by Russian President Vladimir Putin has prompted me to respond. While his position that the Syrian conflict can and should be settled through a political and diplomatic solution is correct, virtually everything else in his writing should be taken to task. So I shall.

    I begin with Mr. Putin’s disagreement regarding the exceptionalism of the United States of America. I could not more strongly disagree with him. While he is correct that God created every human being as an equal in His eyes, clearly the results of each of our efforts on this earth, individually and collectively, are not equal.

    America’s exceptionalism is rooted in our founding documents and values. From the rights granted by our creator, but guaranteed by our Constitution. We should not shy away from saying so, especially when our actions are in keeping with this exceptional founding, as they were this week in our debate over going to war in Syria. Our constitutional checks and balances were on full display, largely resulting in the at least temporary halting of a rush to war.

    Mr. Putin’s second mistake is to focus on the speck in the eye of the United States, while ignoring the plank in his own. He accuses the United States of alarming interventions in foreign countries. While I certainly have my bone to pick with our foreign policy over the last 15 years, the Russian President is the least qualified person I can think of to make this argument with a straight face.

    ...
    read more:
    http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/13/sen...s-exceptional/



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  3. #2
    He's being very selective in his examples. What Russia is doing in Syria has been done many times by the US in many other countries.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    He's being very selective in his examples. What Russia is doing in Syria has been done many times by the US in many other countries.
    Sounds like he's playing to his audience..

    Neither the USSA or the USSR are lily white when it comes to social issues or foreign policy...

  5. #4
    That's weird, my mom used to tell me that I am exceptional. When you think about it, most of us are exceptional and when everyone is exceptional, nobody is.

    No, Americans are not exceptional, they are just different.

  6. #5
    Very clever... and effective
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  7. #6

  8. #7
    He is a much better politician than his father.

  9. #8
    rand is just trying to appease the sean hannity types. had to be done i suppose.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ObiRandKenobi View Post
    rand is just trying to appease the sean hannity types. had to be done i suppose.
    It didn't have to, but $#@! like this that has 0 appeal to us is the equivalent of substantive policy discussion for the red meat loving base. It's another smart political maneuver by the master.

  12. #10

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Rubio has a completely different definition of American exceptionalism than Rand. Rubio believes that America is exceptional because of the actions that we've taken overseas. Rand believes that we are exceptional because of the way that our country was founded and our Constitution.

  14. #12
    ..what's controversial here, -again-? he says america is exceptional because of our separation of powers and constitutional rights that russia lacks

    he didn't associate exceptionalism to ability of foreign entanglement.. did some of you even read the article

    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    you just sit at your part time job and dream up new non existent drama all day?
    Last edited by jtstellar; 09-13-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstellar View Post
    ..what's controversial here, -again-? he says america is exceptional because of our separation of powers and constitutional rights that russia lacks

    he didn't associate exceptionalism to ability of foreign entanglement.. did some of you even read the article



    you just sit at your part time job and dream up new non existent drama all day?
    What did he say that was so offensive to you? Seems like you are the one "dreaming up drama" around here these days.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Rubio has a completely different definition of American exceptionalism than Rand. Rubio believes that America is exceptional because of the actions that we've taken overseas. Rand believes that we are exceptional because of the way that our country was founded and our Constitution.
    Which is also basically what Ron has said.

    American exceptionalism is a popular view among Republicans that the United States is like no other country in history. Paul believes that view has been distorted to justify international interventions.

    “There’s a move on in our country to excuse our intervention overseas, and they call it American exceptionalism. They distort this view, of course,” Paul told the crowd of several hundred. “They say that America is exceptional, they know what is right, and they have this moral obligation to force it down the throats of other people, and if they don’t take it, we’re supposed to invade them and make them do exactly as we say.”
    [...]
    “I do believe we are an exceptional nation,” Paul said. “We’ve been exceptional in that we have an exceptional Constitution, we’ve enjoyed the benefits of liberty like no other nation ever did, we’ve had the largest middle class ever and the wealthiest middle class.”

    But none of that is grounds for policing the world, he said. He advocated improving the country as a way to be an example for other nations.
    Ron Paul and American Exceptionalism at the RNC
    http://www.cato.org/multimedia/daily...ptionalism-rnc

    "If you took this down to the level of the individual, if any human being walked around and talked about themselves the way America's leaders talk about the United States, he or she would have no friends whatsoever. Because it's this constant drumbeat of self-congratulation, chest-pounding..."

    It's embarrassing. Especially since the Ruling Class has destroyed most of what really made this country truly exceptional.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  17. #15
    We used to be exceptional. Now we just kinda suck.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand
    we do not all share the same richness of history regarding human rights, freedom and democracy. There has been in the past 200 years a city on the hill that has shone brighter than all others. We will not be ashamed of that.
    America's founding was exceptional...for white, male, protestants. Is he just ignorant of American history or is he hoping the reader is?

    Of course my opinion doesn't count for squat, but even former me would be annoyed by Rand's op-ed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Putin
    It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation.
    Indeed, Hitler did this very well.



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  20. #17
    Rand Paul deliberately misreads (like may others) Putin's "exceptional" remark, which explicitly referred to the usage in the end of the Obama speech:

    America is not the world’s policeman. Terrible things happen across the globe, and it is beyond our means to right every wrong. But when, with modest effort and risk, we can stop children from being gassed to death, and thereby make our own children safer over the long run, I believe we should act. That’s what makes America different. That’s what makes us exceptional. With humility, but with resolve, let us never lose sight of that essential truth.
    Which essentially says, "We are not world policemen, we can't fix everything, but if we can do it cheaply, we should act and that is why we are exceptional".

    You can also find similar sentiment in Rubio's speech on foreign policy.

    Putin is spot on. Rand is pandering
    Last edited by Harald; 09-13-2013 at 01:04 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew5 View Post
    America's founding was exceptional...for white, male, protestants. Is he just ignorant of American history or is he hoping the reader is?
    Wow, so you reject the principles that our country was founded upon? Why are you here?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Harald View Post
    Rand is pandering
    Expect it to escalate in 2014/15.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Wow, so you reject the principles that our country was founded upon? Why are you here?
    I don't pretend that America was some lily white bastion of freedom that Rand gushes about. History says otherwise.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew5 View Post
    I don't pretend that America was some lily white bastion of freedom that Rand gushes about. History says otherwise.
    We were with the exception of slavery. That was certainly a black mark on our history. But, our Constitution was unique in that it placed limits on the power of government, which is what Rand was referring to.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Harald View Post
    Rand Paul deliberately misreads (like may others) Putin's "exceptional" remark, which explicitly referred to the usage in the end of the Obama speech:



    Which essentially says, "We are not world policemen, we can't fix everything, but if we can do it cheaply, we should act and that is why we are exceptional".

    You can also find similar sentiment in Rubio's speech on foreign policy.

    Putin is spot on. Rand is pandering
    grow up.. this isn't your parents talking to you

    there's no need to respond to them word by word and read them exactly at their words. i seriously think this is turning into an age gap/mental maturity kind of thing.. it's like we're raising kids whose brains aren't fully developed yet until they're in their mid-20s with this movement. in all due respect i don't think it will make a difference whether you are here or not.. maybe you'r used to your dad pandering to you, but he isn't your dad. and the assumption that failure of such implies danger is true only in the instance where your zeal to campaign and do grassroots outmatches those of the mainstream republicans that have now converted to rand paul by hordes, which in all honesty i don't think you will
    Last edited by jtstellar; 09-13-2013 at 01:17 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    We were with the exception of slavery. That was certainly a black mark on our history. But, our Constitution was unique in that it placed limits on the power of government, which is what Rand was referring to.
    And women...who were not represented in the republic for over 140 years.

    And Native Americans...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

    And Catholics...http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Early-America

    He wasn't just referring to limits on government. Here it is again:

    ...we do not all share the same richness of history regarding human rights, freedom and democracy. There has been in the past 200 years a city on the hill that has shone brighter than all others. We will not be ashamed of that.
    America was a "city on a hill" when over half its population was suppressed for 140 years? Explain that one to me.
    Last edited by Matthew5; 09-13-2013 at 01:19 PM.

  27. #24
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  29. #25

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew5 View Post
    And women...who were not represented in the republic for over 140 years.

    And catholics...http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Early-America

    He wasn't just referring to limits on government. Here it is again:



    America was a "city on a hill" when over half its population was suppressed for 140 years? Explain that one to me.
    He's pandering to what people want to hear. That's plain. He knows what a central bank is, how our army has been used to enforce its rule, and those of our corporations, etc... But, he's trying to look presidential, stand up for 'Merica in the face of ridicule from foreign powers. He's a POWER RANGER!

    Yes, it was hard for me to read also, but expected, I guess.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  31. #27
    anyone who doesn't make you happy in any means, shapes, or forms is "pandering"..

    lol.. mental juveniles

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstellar View Post
    anyone who doesn't make you happy in any means, shapes, or forms is "pandering"..

    lol.. mental juveniles
    When you go to the point of ignoring facts...yeah, I'd say he's indulging some people. lol

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    He's pandering to what people want to hear. That's plain. He knows what a central bank is, how our army has been used to enforce its rule, and those of our corporations, etc... But, he's trying to look presidential, stand up for 'Merica in the face of ridicule from foreign powers. He's a POWER RANGER!

    Yes, it was hard for me to read also, but expected, I guess.
    you want to try living overseas for once like i did to see what it's really like without any concept/culture of natural rights?

    i love how people bicker about how there's apparently a complete void of merit to say america does stand for constitutional and human rights ideals in complete vacuums by people who rarely go 100 miles away from their homes

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Rubio has a completely different definition of American exceptionalism than Rand. Rubio believes that America is exceptional because of the actions that we've taken overseas. Rand believes that we are exceptional because of the way that our country was founded and our Constitution.
    Well said! Team Rand should definitely have a line like this ready for the 2015/16 debates.

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