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Thread: If we could buy 1000 acres or more, who would join us?

  1. #1

    Default If we could buy 1000 acres or more, who would join us?

    I wrote a thread the other day asking for your top 10 states in which to live: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-which-to-live

    I did it because Mark and I have pretty much decided we can't live in Cali anymore, so we're going to move as many of our family members as want to leave, to another state. Our efforts here have run their course, Cali is pretty much a police state now.

    We've been invited to live in a 'free zone' of other like-minded Americans, but we really don't like the state, so we're not altogether sure if we want to go.

    I'm throwing this idea out here just to get opinions on people banding together geographically and becoming self-reliant. When I mentioned it in another thread, I got this response:

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Deb,

    The worse case scenario for government is for those 10M people to scatter, stop using a digital signal and change known patterns..

    The best case scenario for government is for these folks to clump up in nice neat little bunches..
    To which I replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    We scatter, we're screwed. But I do agree at some point we need to stop using digital signals and change our patterns. Tod, there are already free zones being set up. I know of one. They can be done 'under the radar'.

    My reasoning is this: When, not if, the economic collapse is in full swing, I contend that the first victims will be those living off the dole, in densely populated areas. The gov't, in all its forms, will be preoccupied dealing with civil unrest, while those of us who have settled in unpopulated areas and are self-sustaining (for the most part), will be the last to be bothered with. We will NOT be in their cross-hairs.

    Are they watching our types? Hell YES they are! I know this first hand. I have 3 extremely reliable contacts, and I know the liberty movement is on the watch list. HOWEVER, they are watching to see if we intend to organize a violent uprising or insurrection - and we're definitely not. We do have activists in our movement who practice civil disobedience to help bring awareness to the cause of liberty, but we are overwhelmingly in favor of NAP.

    I believe their goal is to slowly boil the frog, slowly take over everything and turn us all into employees of the gov't (serfs). Although, they will continue to attempt to present the façade of free enterprise, and individual freedom. I don't think tptb really want an all out war with American citizenry, they'd rather do this incrementally (certain psychopathic police forces notwithstanding). However, they are gearing up for civil unrest on a massive scale because of the inevitable economic collapse.

    So, it is with this analogy, that I believe our kind will have a better chance at survival, if we band together while we still can. Their focus will not be on those who are quietly living out their lives and not requiring help from them. Not for a long while, anyway. If we are scattered, as we are now, and martial law goes into effect your area, you will be alone, and not with your liberty family.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Deborah K; 07-22-2013 at 07:56 PM. Reason: typo
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!



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  3. #2

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    i'd consider it. i've been planning to go back to a type of family 'compound' within the next year or two. though i'm not sure how much land would be available for others to purchase.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  4. #3

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    Their focus will not be on those who are quietly living out their lives and not requiring help from them.
    It seems to me those are the people they are focusing on right now.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    It seems to me those are the people they are focusing on right now.
    Can you site some examples so we can discuss them? I don't think the Branch Davidians qualify as an example of what I'm talking about.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  6. #5

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    Deb,

    I remain hesitant to gather too large of a group in any one area.

    "Communities" of less than 100 families scattered hither and yon will not likely draw unwanted attention.

    I do not trust government the entity and I trust the individuals who comprise the entity even less.

    I can't in good conscience put my child in a situation I don't feel tenable.

    If everything goes south I feel much better deep in the mountains with the 4-legged wildlife. (Hell I feel better here now)

    Good on you guys for making plans!

    And best of luck with those plans!

  7. #6

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    I've thought about this too. I would consider it depending on where and how much it would cost and as long as each person is accountable for himself...ie, no dictators.
    I only say that because there are actually quite a few communes still around where they end up not lasting for one reason or another or they try to have some sort of common goal that everyone is not on board with.
    Last edited by Carlybee; 07-21-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  8. #7

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    1000 acres, how many people do you plan on housing there ?
    It's not enough for any significant number of people, if you want to grow your own food that is. Maybe if you become vegetarian though.. (if you ever need someone to do the math on food production though.)

    Apart from that I like the idea. If something like this was started in Europe around where I currently live I'd be inclined to move there since I'm not really interested in society as it is and for the most part I could care less about luxury, but stay away from my internet !

    So I'll vote neutral on this one.

    PS: I'd personally settle for 10 acres, but I'd have a lot of excess food to share with my neighbors, I'm not a socialist though so I'll trade. Guess that makes me the village farmer...
    Last edited by luctor-et-emergo; 07-21-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    Can you site some examples so we can discuss them? I don't think the Branch Davidians qualify as an example of what I'm talking about.
    Possibly not, but how hard would it be to paint such a community as "extremists" and "anti- government cultists"? My point is the government at all levels seems to be (is) doing everything in it's power to make as many people as possible dependent on them. From the feds advertising food stamps to Bloomberg's denying charities giving bagels to the homeless, self-reliance doesn't seem too popular with the ruling class. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

    That being said, I would join such a venture if I am at all able to.
    Last edited by Origanalist; 07-21-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Deb,

    I remain hesitant to gather too large of a group in any one area.

    "Communities" of less than 100 families scattered hither and yon will not likely draw unwanted attention.

    I do not trust government the entity and I trust the individuals who comprise the entity even less.

    I can't in good conscience put my child in a situation I don't feel tenable.

    If everything goes south I feel much better deep in the mountains with the 4-legged wildlife. (Hell I feel better here now)

    Good on you guys for making plans!

    And best of luck with those plans!
    I completely respect your stance. Moving somewhere remote with just our families and close friends remains an option.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    1000 acres, how many people do you plan on housing there ?
    It's not enough for any significant number of people, if you want to grow your own food that is. Maybe if you become vegetarian though.. (if you ever need someone to do the math on food production though.)

    Apart from that I like the idea. If something like this was started in Europe around where I currently live I'd be inclined to move there since I'm not really interested in society as it is and for the most part I could care less about luxury, but stay away from my internet !

    So I'll vote neutral on this one.

    PS: I'd personally settle for 10 acres, but I'd have a lot of excess food to share with my neighbors, I'm not a socialist though so I'll trade. Guess that makes me the village farmer...
    It's the idea, the concept that we're trying to work out, at this point. I'm trying to get people I care about to start thinking about their options.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  12. #11

    Default

    (1) Centralization is not required.

    Yes, the transition to a free society needs local groups that are creating functional agoras, but this isn't the only requirement. The movement also needs a wide dispersal of believers who are integrated with their local society. So don't feel bad if you can't pull off the whole "liberty compound" idea. Just live as best as you can, and stay supportive of movements that you like.

    (2) If you're into the whole "move with like minded people" thing, why start with something new?

    The Free State Project in NH already has people moving and making a difference. Join them. Or the Blue Ridge Liberty Project. Or Galt's Gulch Chile. Or the Peaceful Streets Project in Austin, TX. Starting another project just dilutes the draw of these, and your competing for adherents against people that already had other options.

    (3) Digital ties are stronger than ever.

    I'd say it's more efficient to just move to any old area that is attractive to you and make your ties to other Liberty Lovers via Facebook, email, and meetup groups.

    (4) Don't limit yourself to the US.
    "You cannot solve these problems with war." - Ron Paul

  13. #12

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    I would be willing to make plans. But the husband's job is here, and I'm not willing to uproot my son again. So we are staying here for at least 4 years.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  14. #13

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    I'd rather be dead than live in a compound
    Waiting for the day the classical liberals drive the hateful alt-right out of the republican party, and the libertarians can rise again.

  15. #14

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    I'll put in my $.02.

    I agree w/ Tod's premise that if we congregate in one area, *and the government is aggressively clamping down*, it will be more difficult to go guerrilla.

    If your premise were to restart America v2.0 (and defend it) then consolidating is the only way.

    However, it sounds like you simply want to get away from this dump. If you and some other folks populate something out of the way, you likely won't get bothered until the revolution occurs.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  16. #15

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    You are only as free as your neighbors allow you to be. So if you surround yourself with freedom loving neighbors, and stay under radar, You can nullify just about ... anything.

    I would also agree do not limit yourself to the US
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    I'd rather be dead than live in a compound
    I like my quaint little compound in the woods, easily defensible

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlybee View Post
    I've thought about this too. I would consider it depending on where and how much it would cost and as long as each person is accountable for himself...ie, no dictators.
    I only say that because there are actually quite a few communes still around where they end up not lasting for one reason or another or they try to have some sort of common goal that everyone is not on board with.
    I have convinced my family that I am the most Benevolant Dictator, so its all good here

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    You are only as free as your neighbors allow you to be. So if you surround yourself with freedom loving neighbors, and stay under radar, You can nullify just about ... anything.
    This was always our plan. No longer doable.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  20. #19

    Default

    I can't move but I can tell you there is a HUGE network of preppers/liberty minded people living in the rural Carolina's.

    This guy would help you out if you wanted to locate there:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/southernprepper1/videos
    southernprepper1@yahoo.com

    These guys live there too:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sootch00/videos
    http://www.youtube.com/user/engineer775/videos

    EDIT-There are some good politicians in the Carolinas as well. Sanford, Davis, Bright, Jones, Bradley...

    EDITX2-Somebody earlier brought up this: http://www.blueridgelibertyproject.com/
    Last edited by TaftFan; 07-21-2013 at 12:54 PM.

  21. #20

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    You should check out Joel Skousen's Strategic Relocation. Great information in there.

    Putting all our eggs in one basket makes for easy targets, IMHO. I would prefer networking like a lot of people did back in the 90's, before internet and cell phones.

    We need to push for more Sovereign States Status using the 10th amendment against federal encroachment.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I would be willing to make plans. But the husband's job is here, and I'm not willing to uproot my son again. So we are staying here for at least 4 years.
    I'll put you on the list, Angie.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    Can you site some examples so we can discuss them? I don't think the Branch Davidians qualify as an example of what I'm talking about.
    What particular group of people would pose the biggest threat to "orderly government"?

    When towns and possibly whole counties start bucking the fed, neighbors will turn on each other, newcomers will be targets..

    If ya'll have family in the country that's really the best way to avoid the newcomer/untrustworthy status.

    But who knows everything could turn around and come up roses too....

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    You should check out Joel Skousen's Strategic Relocation. Great information in there.

    Putting all our eggs in one basket makes for easy targets, IMHO. I would prefer networking like a lot of people did back in the 90's, before internet and cell phones.

    We need to push for more Sovereign States Status using the 10th amendment against federal encroachment.
    Agreed. I've always thought there should be 'free zones' EVERYWHERE and ALL OVER. They don't have to be compounds per se. And I reiterate that I don't believe we'd be targets as long as we're not planning for insurrection.

    And rest assured, an option like this is only one prong in a multi-pronged effort to restore freedom. It's an option as a way to survive upcoming unrest on a massive scale.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mczerone View Post
    (3) Digital ties are stronger than ever.
    If/when this exercise crumbles there will be no "digital ties" among those contra to fed-gov.

  26. #25

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    Personally, the idea of a single compound housing a group of people is very unappealing to me. I currently am a co-owner with my siblings of the family farm and it has been very trying. Every SINGLE thing we attempt to do turns into a big disagreement, from what to spend money on to how to make money to what to maintain and what changes should be made....nothing but a big fight every step of the way. Even what area to mow for the lawn. It is ridiculous. There are five of us and one ALWAYS has to be contrary, another has few preferences but always sides with the contrary one, and then the remaining three of us. We can't even agree on how to make decisions.
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."

  27. #26

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    I think Tod has a point. Let's say that in your compound, vehicles don't need tags or insurance to run on your roads. The state will just pass a law saying that they have the right to impound cars that aren't tagged even if they never touch public property. The people in the compound who drive off will be secretly happy, and people who live off the compound will be smug.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  28. #27

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    Probably better than buying a private reserve to live on would be to establish a new town/city somewhere. FSP-style, but smaller scale, village-sized. If the land can be worked and the state chosen isn't too intrusive, it accomplishes the goals intended by the original proposal and then some, as we'd have local political control as well.

    Alternatively we could find an existing town that could suit the purpose, as long as it had an existing population amenable to the change and of the tradition of neighborliness that minds its own business.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Czolgosz View Post
    I'll put in my $.02.

    I agree w/ Tod's premise that if we congregate in one area, *and the government is aggressively clamping down*, it will be more difficult to go guerrilla.

    If your premise were to restart America v2.0 (and defend it) then consolidating is the only way.

    However, it sounds like you simply want to get away from this dump. If you and some other folks populate something out of the way, you likely won't get bothered until the revolution occurs.
    I thought immediately nesting/conquering upon reading your post..

    +rep

  30. #29

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    Although I cannot move, I am very experienced in tree orcharding and sustainable farming if you ever need assistance with such a thing.. And if you are planning on growing your own food, planting trees ASAP is a huge factor.. Fruit trees yield an insane amount of food..
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    What particular group of people would pose the biggest threat to "orderly government"?
    Those living off the dole whose entitlements are cut off due to a full scale economic collapse. First targeted would be those living in densely populated areas who resort to civil unrest (as I stated in my OP).

    When towns and possibly whole counties start bucking the fed, neighbors will turn on each other, newcomers will be targets..
    And which those of us who move to remote areas will be under the radar. Look at banding together as a way to help each other in the event of collapse and martial law. Some of us have the wherewithal to do it, some of us need the help to do it.
    Last edited by Deborah K; 09-10-2014 at 11:43 AM. Reason: noticed a typo
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

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