Fire in JPMs gold vault reported!!

[devil21]

I haven't searched around but there was a vault fire in a gold vault a couple years ago too, iirc. Rings a bell.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/breakin...force-majeure/

[mad cow]

What is the melting point of Tungsten?

[eduardo89]

A typical building fire doesn't reach near gold's melting point of 1064°C.

What is the melting point of Tungsten?

Much higher than gold's, 3422°C.

[Seraphim]

What gold?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...h-all-time-low

By the way, my spiddy senses are tiggling big time.

Something is up.

Someone is getting shafted HARDCORE either now or very soon.

[whippoorwill]

bump.

[andrer]

What is the melting point of Tungsten?

Haha, good one.

[ctiger2]

We're getting closer...

[osan]

What is the melting point of Tungsten?

Close to 6000*

[osan]

I haven't searched around but there was a vault fire in a gold vault a couple years ago too, iirc. Rings a bell.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/breakin...force-majeure/

Nothing to see here... move along... NOW...

Oh, but wait... there's this:

[Dr.3D]

I don't get it. Are they going to say all of their gold burned up?

[Brian4Liberty]

Obviously gold is not going to burn.

So what is burning? Records (bonds, mortgages, inventory, ownership, paper currency, etc)? Fine art? Other valuables?

[McChronagle]

Could there be a vault in the Downtown residential building, and could the FDNY have been responding to a fire in such a "commercial vault"? Of course: as anyone who has ventured into the skyscraper forest of New York's Financial District knows, there is an underground vault in virtually every building.

However, was this the JPMorgan gold vault? Certainly not.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...ans-gold-vault

[osan]

Obviously gold is not going to burn.

Perhaps they will claim it all melted and went down a drain into the sewers and the determination will be made that it is unrecoverable.

=8^o

So what is burning? Records (bonds, mortgages, inventory, ownership, paper currency, etc)? Fine art? Other valuables?

But to what end? Are there no SEC record-keeping requirements? Whatever paper they hold regarding their obligations must have their counterparts in the hands of those to whom the debts are owed... or will they simply call all such instruments "fraudulent"?

But consider the more basic problem here: vault construction. Any serious vault will have walls at least 8" thick - most likely FAR thicker. In addition, the concrete will be heavily laced with rebar to slow down thieves. Add to this the fact that the interiors of every vault in which I have personally stood has had an interior of NOTHING other than concrete and steel. No fancy anything of wood or other combustible.

Now add to all that the fact that when closed, vaults hold a very limited oxidizer mass. This fire is characterized as having been "massive". How doe a massive fire erupt in a presumably well designed and built vault? Answer: it doesn't... at least not without a whole lot of help. So, either this fire has been grossly mis-characterized or someone has been up to very serious hanky-panky.

Finally, consider how many sphincters must be twitching away at about 20kHz at the uncertain prospect that they will ever see their credit obligations fulfilled.

This fire, as reported thus far, seems as organic as WTC 7's collapse into a neat hole in the ground.

Now, my question is this: assuming this event has been fabricated, to what end is it so? Is this JPM simply trying to excuse itself from the nearly half-million ozt shortfall in its physical stocks vis-a-vis its contract obligations, or is this some diversion?

[devil21]

Could there be a vault in the Downtown residential building, and could the FDNY have been responding to a fire in such a "commercial vault"? Of course: as anyone who has ventured into the skyscraper forest of New York's Financial District knows, there is an underground vault in virtually every building.

However, was this the JPMorgan gold vault? Certainly not.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...ans-gold-vault

Glad to see it wasn't actually at the bank's location, however Im curious where all their gold 'paperwork' is stored.

[Brian4Liberty]

But to what end? Are there no SEC record-keeping requirements? Whatever paper they hold regarding their obligations must have their counterparts in the hands of those to whom the debts are owed... or will they simply call all such instruments "fraudulent"?

Most people do not keep copies of their stock ownership documents (stock certificates). IIRC, some people have highly recommended that people have their own copies, just in case something goes "wrong" with the paperwork.

[oyarde]

Most people do not keep copies of their stock ownership documents (stock certificates). IIRC, some people have highly recommended that people have their own copies, just in case something goes "wrong" with the paperwork.

Well , I always have , because when I wanted to sell something 20 years down the road, my broker wanted a certificate , you could get them reissued but it took a long time.No idea now .

[Carson]

Nothing to see here... move along... NOW...

Oh, but wait... there's this:

And what about all of the other things held in the public trust. Do we still own our National Forest?

[osan]

And what about all of the other things held in the public trust. Do we still own our National Forest?

Not even remotely.

[devil21]

This probably deserves its own thread but the timing is interesting!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...odity-business

After weeks of emptying of their Gold vaults and making headlines in recent days over their oligolopolization of commodity warehousing, it seems the threat of a probe has excited Blythe and her colleagues to dump while the dumping is good:

JP. MORGAN TO EXPLORE STRATEGIC ALTERNATIVES FOR ITS PHYSICAL COMMODITIES BUSINESS

Options include sale, spin-off, or strategic partnership as they re-confirm that they are "fully committed to traditional banking activities," as they look to drop the holdings of commodities assets and the physical trading business.

[Cap]

This probably deserves its own thread but the timing is interesting!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...odity-business

Yes, I agree that this should probably have it's own thread. In response to your post, I smell a rat. I don't think they will ever get out of the market.

[devil21]

And more interesting timing. Something's definitely up. VERY long article.

http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/...d-11b30bcfb5e0

JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM:US), Morgan Stanley (MS:US) and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS:US) are among lenders whose commodity-trading is in jeopardy as the Federal Reserve reconsiders letting banks ship oil and store metal.

The central bank, ahead of a Senate subcommittee hearing on the issue tomorrow, says it’s reviewing a decade-old ruling to let deposit-taking banks trade physical commodities. A reversal would be the Fed’s biggest exclusion of banks from a market since Congress lifted the Depression-era law against them joining with securities firms in 1999.

“Like any regulator, the Fed doesn’t like reversing a long line of decisions,” said Saule T. Omarova, a law professor with the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, who’s scheduled to testify at tomorrow’s hearing. “If they get enough pressure from the outside they might be forced to do so.”
The 10 largest Wall Street banks generated about $6 billion in revenue from commodities in 2012, including dealings in physical materials as well as related financial products, according to a Feb. 15 report from analytics company Coalition. Goldman Sachs ranked No. 1, followed by New York-based JPMorgan.
Goldman Sachs held $7.7 billion of commodities at fair value as of March 31 and New York-based Morgan Stanley had $6.7 billion, according to regulatory filings. None of the banks disclose how much revenue or profit comes from commodity trading or break out the contribution from physical assets.
Reviewing 2003

[Carson]

And more interesting timing. Something's definitely up. VERY long article.

http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/...d-11b30bcfb5e0

Long indeed.

More shells in the shell game?

More patsy's to take the fall?


Bundling more bull to stiff the pawns with?

[devil21]

I hope no records of gold ownership were lost.



Oh lord jesus it's a fire!

[FindLiberty]

Diamonds will burn up in a fire, just like Social Security IOUs, without a trace.

Paper leaves useless ashes.

Physical Gold just disappears!

[acptulsa]

“Like any regulator, the Fed..."

Hold the phone.

The Fed wasn't set up as a 'regulator', but as a central bank. The Fed is owned and run by big banks. If the Fed is regulating other banks, including small banks, how is that not a major conflict of interest? And since when does the United States of America allow 'regulators' who are not even allegedly and nominally answerable to any elected official?

[Ronin Truth]

Is Germany's gold still OK?

[Zippyjuan]

Old story but even ZeroHedge said the fire was nowhere near their gold vault. In fact, they didn't even have any offices in that building anymore.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...ans-gold-vault

So did a sweeping fire "take place" (in broad daylight and in front of video camera armed streetwalkers) providing the fire brigade a pretext to abscond with JPM's gold on orders from above, or merely give JPM an alibi to say it's gold is "gone... all gone" or rather "burned... all burned" (leaving aside the propensity of a fire to propagate in the confined oxygen constraints to be found on top of the Manhattan bedrock and far below street level)? No. For the simple reason that 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza is over two blocks away from where the fire did take place as can be seen on the map below:



In other words, if there was a "fire" in JPM's vault, the response would have been not at 15 Broad Street, but over half a mile away at the perfectly fire-accessible Liberty Street (between the NY Fed and 1 CMP), across from the real JPM vault fire doors

For modern generations, 23 Wall Street may be better known as the (incorrect) facade of the NYSE as represented in The Dark Knight Rises.

Of course, JPM has long since moved on from its landmark location just across from the NYSE, and now can be located at its Park Avenue headquarters (with its Bear Stearns annex), and of course, at 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza.

So what is now housed in the 15 Broad/23 Wall Street block to where the FDNY was responding, if not any JPM? 23 Wall and 15 Broad Street were sold in 2003 for $100 million to Africa Israel & Boymelgreen (there is likely a far more interesting story surrounding Africa Israel and Boymelgreen here than there is about the "fire in JPM's vault"). The two buildings have become a condominium development, Downtown by Philippe Starck, named for French designer Philippe Starck, one of a growing number of residential buildings in the Financial District. Starck made the roof of 23 Wall into a garden and pool, accessible to the residents of the development.

Could there be a vault in the Downtown residential building, and could the FDNY have been responding to a fire in such a "commercial vault"? Of course: as anyone who has ventured into the skyscraper forest of New York's Financial District knows, there is an underground vault in virtually every building.

However, was this the JPMorgan gold vault? Certainly not.

[Acala]

And what about all of the other things held in the public trust. Do we still own our National Forest?

"We" don't own anything. You own what you have under your control. I own what I have under my control. The government owns what it has under its control.