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Thread: ID-Woman SWAT raided for failing to appear on charge of throwing down a pen.

  1. #1

    Exclamation ID-Woman SWAT raided for failing to appear on charge of throwing down a pen.

    The year to year nightmare, the never ending nightmare, of somebody who has gotten entangled in the system and will probably never get out.

    Free Country...


    The Persecution of Rita Hutchens

    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...-hutchens.html

    Sandpoint, Idaho resident Rita Hutchens is an opinionated 57-year-old quilt artist whose work has earned her international notoriety.
    Given that Hutchens is also an outspoken proponent of constitutionalist views, it’s possible that some people have taken issue with her political opinions.

    Hutchens has never harmed or threatened another human being. Yet local officials, led by Bonner County Deputy Prosecutor Shane Greenbank -- an inventively dishonest official -- are trying to make a criminal out of her. Failing that, they might simply seek to have her imprisoned indefinitely in a psych ward.

    Around midnight on April 16, three Bonner County Sheriff’s Deputies invaded Rita’s home while she was asleep and half-clothed on her living room sofa. The deputies were enforcing a bench warrant issued several weeks earlier after Hutchens had failed to appear for a preliminary hearing on a misdemeanor charge.

    In Idaho, as elsewhere, it is exceptionally rare for police to serve warrants after sundown. In its ruling in the 2011 case Idaho v. Skurlock, the Idaho Supreme Court recognized that at night time people “have a heightened expectation of privacy that should not be disturbed by a knock on the door and the presentation of a search warrant.” In addition, executing a warrant at night “increases the likelihood of violence because nighttime searches cause an abrupt intrusion on sleeping occupants in a home, thus increasing the potential for a violent reaction from the occupants.”

    The bold and valiant deputies who kicked in Rita Hutchens’s door at midnight acted in the serene confidence that they had no reason to expect a violent reaction on the part of their terrified victim.

    The officials responsible for the Stasi-style midnight raid maintain that there was an element of urgency because she is suspected of a violent crime, to wit: battery on a city official at Sandpoint City Hall last August 12. If they are in a particularly creative mood, city authorities might embellish that charge by saying that it involved an impact weapon.

    The implement of mayhem allegedly employed by Hutchens in the supposed assault on Deputy Clerk Melissa Ward was not a club, a set of brass knuckles, or throwing stars. It was a ballpoint pen.

    No, really.

    Furthermore, according to the sober and dutiful public servants who witnessed the attack, Hutchens did not hurl that potentially death-dealing projectile at Ward; instead, she threw it down on a tabletop, and the terrorized agent of the public weal was injured by a ricochet.

    Somehow, Ward stoically fought through her trauma and finished her shift without being treated by paramedics. Significantly, although she did fill out a police report, Ward never swore out a criminal complaint.

    Hutchens filed a subpoena demanding that Ward, the alleged victim, provide a sworn and signed criminal complaint.

    Last November 14, the Idaho First District Court granted a motion by Sandpoint City Attorney Scott Campbell to quash that subpoena, ruling that “requiring Ms. Ward, the victim in this matter, to provide a signed complaint is unreasonable.”

    What this means is that there is no victim of record in the August 12 “battery” incident, and no criminal intent behind Hutchens’s actions – unless, of course, Greenbank wants to pretend that this middle-aged woman deviously set up a bank-shot for the purpose of wounding the clerk. On the basis of his behavior toward Hutchens – another example of which we will examine anon -- I’m convinced that Greenbank and his comrades possess sufficient cynicism to make that claim.

    The patently spurious nature of the charge against Hutchens is brought into focus once it’s understood why she had visited City Hall: She was there to review public records related to an incident in 2011 in which she was assaulted and illegally arrested by Sandpoint police officer Theresa Heberer.

    At the time of her encounter with Officer Heberer, Hutchens was in the middle of evicting a deadbeat tenant (who, as it happened, had been arrested the previous day on outstanding warrants). She visited her property to determine if the power and water had been shut off. When Hutchens drove by the property – making two passes when she saw the renter talking with Officer Heberer – the tenant claimed that Hutchens had been “stalking” or “harassing” her. On the basis of that complaint from a manifestly unreliable source, Heberer got into her patrol vehicle and followed Hutchens to her home.

    Heberer demanded that Hutchens submit to an interrogation. Hutchens, who didn’t want to be bothered by a police officer – what decent and rational person would? – replied that she had nothing to say, invoked the Fifth Amendment, and turned to enter her home. Heberer responded by committing criminal trespass, then compounded that crime by seizing Hutchens and violently throwing her to the ground.

    When her supervisor arrived on the scene, Heberer claimed that the encounter began with a traffic stop dealing with an expired registration. This was a lie, of course. Seeking to find some charge to justify the criminal violence inflicted on Hutchens, Heberer and her supervisor pored over the statute book and eventually decided to charge the victim with “resisting and obstructing” a police officer.

    That charge was entirely without merit – a fact recognized by Magistrate Judge Barbara Buchanan when she threw it out of court.

    “There was no reason to touch her,” Judge Buchanan observed. “She did not have to answer [Officer Heberer’s] questions. She has a Fifth Amendment right not to do that…. You can’t be charged with resisting and obstructing for exercising your Fifth Amendment right, and she did have every right to say, `I don’t want to answer your questions, I want to go in my house.’ There is no basis for an arrest, there is no reason for a search warrant.”

    Unlike Melissa Ward, Hutchens was physically harmed by Heberer’s assault, in addition to suffering the indelible injury of being handcuffed and unlawfully detained. She filed a $250,000 damage claim with the City of Sandpoint, which was rejected by Idaho Counties Risk Management Program. So she filed a notice of tort claim announcing her intention to sue the city for violating her civil rights.

    It was in preparation for that lawsuit that Hutchens was researching public records at City Hall on August. As she did so, she was followed by a city official who carried a digital recorder and may well have been trying to bait her into some kind of actionable misconduct.

    As Sgt. Riffel noted in his official report of the incident, “Rita Hutchens… has a fairly tense relationship with the City, and has pending lawsuits against them.”

    Had he possessed a particle of moral discernment and a rudimentary sense of honor, Riffel would have recognized that the battery complaint was an act of petty retaliation against a citizen regarded as an irritant. His reaction should have been to shake his head in disgust, put away his notebook, and tell the “victim” and her cronies to behave like adults. But this would have meant defending the rights of a Mundane, which would be impermissible.

    Accordingly, Riffel – acting in the interests of Tax Feeder solidarity – filed his report and swore out the probable cause affidavit.

    The criminal complaint against Hutchens, which was composed by Greenbank, is a masterpiece of bureaucratic hyperbole. It claims that Hutchens “did willfully and unlawfully use force or violence upon the person of Melissa Ward by striking Ward with a pen, or, in the alternative, did actually, intentionally, and unlawfully touch or strike the person of Melissa Ward against her will by striking Ward with a pen.” This, sniffs Greenbank with the practiced pomposity of a pampered parasite, was a grave offense “against the peace and dignity of the State of Idaho.”

    Ward suffered no injury. There is no evidence that Hutchens intended to do her any harm. By way of contrast, judicial notice has been taken of the incontrovertible fact that Officer Theresa Heberer did “willfully and unlawfully use force or violence” upon the person of Rita Hutchens in an assault that did injure the victim.

    It is precisely because Hutchens is seeking redress for the criminal violence she suffered at the hands of Heberer and her comrades that Greenbank – acting on behalf of the local political class – is seeking to imprison her.

    As his florid description of Hutchens’s purported offense demonstrates, Greenbank is a bit of a drama queen. This got him into trouble in his last gig, during which he afflicted the residents of neighboring Kootenai County. During opening arguments in a September 2008 domestic violence trial, Greenbank – who at the time was Deputy Prosecutor for Kootenai County – broke down in tears and theatrically asked for a tissue as he recounted the alleged crimes of the defendant.

    This display left First District Judge Fred Gilber thoroughly unimpressed. Chastising Greenbank for trying to manipulate the jury, Gilber declared a mistrial. Predictably, Greenbank’s initial reaction was to lie, insisting that he hadn’t been crying and certainly had “no intent to appeal to the passions of the jury.” However, the trial transcript documents that he admitted, “I did have tears running down my face, I did have snot running down my face.”

    Nor was this the first time that Greenback or his colleagues had sought to manipulate a jury. As he declared a mistrial, Judge Gilber pointed out: “In [a] recent case the Court of Appeals has singled out the Kootenai County Prosecutor’s Office for appealing to the passions or prejudice of the jury.”

    For the last six months, Hutchens has been acting as her own attorney.

    Greenbank, who has no appropriate credentials, claims that she has exhibited “unusually behaviors and affects – both in court and in her filings. It is evident that her mood is changeable, and her thoughts are disorganized.” He filed, and was granted, a motion ordering Hutchens to undergo a mandatory psychological evaluation.

    Judge Buchanan is on the left; Judge Heise is on the right.

    Embedded in that May 2 order is a remarkable claim that was introduced by Magistrate Judge Debra Heise without a particle of supporting evidence. Listed among the examples of Hutchens’s “unusual behaviors and affects” was the act of “battering the assigned prosecuting attorney [Greenbank] outside of court when he served papers to her in the clerk’s office….”

    That description would lead the untutored reader to assume that Rita Hutchens, a 57-year-old woman who stands about 5’1” and weighs all of 110 pounds, boldly attacked the intrepid paladin of the public weal in full view of witnesses, and somehow managed to avoid being dragged away in chains.

    What actually happened was that Greenbank shoved a sheaf of legal papers in Hutchens’s face – and she replied in kind by shoving them right back at him. In other words, just as she had “battered” Melissa Ward by accidentally striking her in the arm with a ballpoint pen, she “battered” Shane Greenbank by pushing papers at him. Although this would hardly be enough to injure a child, it should be acknowledged that on Greenbank’s previous performance, trivial contact of this kind would be quite enough to make him cry.

    It should also be noted that Greenbank’s sense of moral outrage over crimes of violence is oddly adaptable. While he is treating Rita Hutchens as if she were a public menace, last August he agreed to a plea bargain by a man accused of hog-tying one handicapped 12-year-old child, and choking another one. The assailant in that case agreed to misdemeanor charges that led to a total of two weeks in jail.

    The May 2 order for Hutchens to undergo a mental evaluation specifies that Dr. Carl Haugan, a “designated licensed psychiatrist,” will file a report on Hutchens’s mental condition by May 23. If she refuses to cooperate, the order explains, “the report shall so state and shall include, if possible, an opinion as to whether such unwillingness of the defendant was the result of mental disease or defect.”

    Judge Heise – whose trough is filled with a $107,043 annual salary plundered from more honest people in the private sector -- clearly sought to prejudice the evaluation by imputing to Hutchens, as a matter of record, “unusual behaviors and affects” as well as a tendency toward “violence” – as supposedly demonstrated in the two instances of “battery.” If, on the other hand, Hutchens refused to submit to an evaluation foreordained to find her incompetent, her refusal is to be taken as proof of her mental incapacity.

    Not surprisingly, Hutchens has refused to play her scripted role in this cynical charade – in defiance of threats to have her arrested and jailed for defying the court order. If Hutchens were taken into state custody, it’s entirely possible that Greenbank would seek to have her involuntarily committed for psychiatric treatment. While thus detained, she would be unable to pursue her lawsuit against the City of Sandpoint – which is almost certainly the point of this entire campaign of official persecution.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  3. #2
    Furthermore, according to the sober and dutiful public servants who witnessed the attack, Hutchens did not hurl that potentially death-dealing projectile at Ward; instead, she threw it down on a tabletop, and the terrorized agent of the public weal was injured by a ricochet.
    Medal. Disability pension. Oh, the horrors these servants of the public must endure.

  4. #3
    Maybe the "dutiful public servant" was doing something to completely piss the woman off in a manner which was both abusive and illegal? Naw, couldnt be that, Govt and all its employees are ALWAYS in the right.
    1776 > 1984

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    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  5. #4
    It might have helped if she had requested for the psyche eval to be tape-recorded. Without that, the government-controlled psychiatrist will surely misrepresent her conduct during the evaluation.

    But she already had the evaluation. If they try to commit her, she could hire her own psychiatrist to give an expert opinion to the court. Forensic psychiatrists are whores, they'll say whatever you pay them to say.

  6. #5
    Poor girl, sounds like she's screwed unless she's got lots of money.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Poor girl, sounds like she's screwed unless she's got lots of money.
    There's a federal law that federal court has to pay for it, if you're poor and want to hire a psychiatrist to oppose the government's psychiatrist. My public defender denied there was such a law, until I shoved it in his face. I have no idea if her state offers something similar. The results were so-so, since the whore we hired was working to service the public defender, and the public defender, another whore, was working to service the prosecutor and judge. But it was better than nothing.

    On second thought, she shouldn't have requested a tape-recording; she should have secretly tape-recorded the evaluation herself, since it was a walk-in.

  8. #7
    Assault pens, people. Ban them. Don't you mundanes know better? Didn't you all see the scene in Terminator 2 in which Sarah Connor stabbed the psychiatrist in the neck with a pen? Turr'ists can kill ya with one'a them things.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 05-12-2013 at 06:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #8
    Mundane must always humbly bow and keep ones gaze at the ground when in the presence of thy government lords. To show contempt can not be tolerated.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

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    Peace.



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  11. #9
    Good lord in heaven, that's the area I'm thinking about moving to. I know the city itself is a bit $#@!ty, judging by the "come to Sandpoint on vacation, leave on probation" signs I saw in the windows of businesses in town.

    I guess I will have to stay out of town most of the time, huh, just like I do here.
    "The Patriarch"

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I guess I will have to stay out of town most of the time, huh, just like I do here.
    You're better off...I'm tellin' ya, people have lost their collective minds out there and have gone full retard, for the most part.

    Best to avoid them altogether.

    Was at the local smoke shop the other day, picking up a carton of Indian smokes for the wife.

    Went to use the ATM and handed my daughter the carton to hold while I finagled the cash machine.

    From the broad's reaction behind the counter, you'd think I just gave her a stick of plutonium to hold.

    "You can't do that!!! She can't touch them!!! That's against the law!!!"

    Me - "Yeah...against the law. Tell me lady, what isn't against the law these days? You gonna report me now?"

    Counter broad - "Well, no, but if a cop walked in here, we could have all gone to jail."

    Me - "Lady, you better wake up to a harsh reality. We are ALL going to go to jail before much longer, here in the 'Land of the Free'. Tell me, I see that big sign behind you, 'Support The Troops', really, why? Because they are 'protecting our freedom'? Really? Think about that..."
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-12-2013 at 07:15 PM.

  13. #11
    If shes declared mentally unfit she will be completely powerless against these predators for the rest of her days.

    I hope she gets better representation than herself as it seems her only shot is to get lucky with a good attorney (not likely) or hire an attorney who is as connected and corrupt as the criminals who have ensnared her.

    If it were me I'd go with the latter as its more effective at this stage

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You're better off...I'm tellin' ya, people have lost their collective minds out there and have gone full retard, for the most part.

    Best to avoid them altogether.

    Was at the local smoke shop the other day, picking up a carton of Indian smokes for the wife.

    Went to use the ATM and handed my daughter the carton to hold while I finagled the cash machine.

    From the broad's reaction behind the counter, you'd think I just gave her a stick of plutonium to hold.

    "You can't do that!!! She can't touch them!!! That's against the law!!!"

    Me - "Yeah...against the law. Tell me lady, what isn't against the law these days? You gonna report me now?"

    Counter broad - "Well, no, but if a cop walked in here, we could have all gone to jail."

    Me - "Lady, you better wake up to a harsh reality. We are ALL going to go to jail before much longer, here in the 'Land of the Free'. Tell me, I see that big sign behind you, 'Support The Troops', really, why? Because they are 'protecting our freedom'? Really? Think about that..."
    Do you think a synapse fired?
    "The Patriarch"

  15. #13
    Here's what I want to know... What the ever living $#@! is wrong with Idaho?
    I mean, I know Grigg lives there, so is he just getting the straight scoop on local abuses?
    Is Idaho just seriously broken, or does this mean that places that are actually someplace - like Texas or Georgia or, jeez, even Indiana is someplace compared to Idaho - are actually orders of magnitude worse?
    I don't hear about $#@! like this happening in Virginia.... is that just because we don't have a Will Grigg living here?
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Here's what I want to know... What the ever living $#@! is wrong with Idaho?
    I mean, I know Grigg lives there, so is he just getting the straight scoop on local abuses?
    Is Idaho just seriously broken, or does this mean that places that are actually someplace - like Texas or Georgia or, jeez, even Indiana is someplace compared to Idaho - are actually orders of magnitude worse?
    I don't hear about $#@! like this happening in Virginia.... is that just because we don't have a Will Grigg living here?

    key words. Police Abuse. Virginia.

  17. #15
    Stupid, but did you know that you could press charges of battery for someone poking you? Yes, spitting (also a charge of battery by bodily fluids), touching, or any unwanted contact....
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Do you think a synapse fired?
    God, I hope so...



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    God, I hope so...
    Me too. I'd plus rep for the eloquent effort but I'm out of pressure cooker colored projectiles.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Here's what I want to know... What the ever living $#@! is wrong with Idaho?
    I mean, I know Grigg lives there, so is he just getting the straight scoop on local abuses?
    Is Idaho just seriously broken, or does this mean that places that are actually someplace - like Texas or Georgia or, jeez, even Indiana is someplace compared to Idaho - are actually orders of magnitude worse?
    I don't hear about $#@! like this happening in Virginia.... is that just because we don't have a Will Grigg living here?
    Actually, I thought Idaho had a good idea with this one... though apparently they don't follow their own mandates.

    In Idaho, as elsewhere, it is exceptionally rare for police to serve warrants after sundown. In its ruling in the 2011 case Idaho v. Skurlock, the Idaho Supreme Court recognized that at night time people “have a heightened expectation of privacy that should not be disturbed by a knock on the door and the presentation of a search warrant.” In addition, executing a warrant at night “increases the likelihood of violence because nighttime searches cause an abrupt intrusion on sleeping occupants in a home, thus increasing the potential for a violent reaction from the occupants.”
    Seems like something they all should abide by. Would save a few lives considering no knock raiding someone's house in the wee hours of the morning most certainly is a cause for the homeowner to arm themselves. It is definitely not in the interest of safety as they claim it is.

    Maybe AF could help me on this one; wasn't there a law abiding man who shot a cop during a no knock raid? This was about a year or two ago and I haven't heard anything else about it. IIRC, they raided his home for drugs, it being early in the morning, he armed himself and shot one of the first people through the door. They didn't kill him and he didn't kill the cop but they were trying to give him something like 45 years. They might have found a personal bag worth of drugs. (no more than a few grams of weed)

    Some of the details may be off but I believe that is generally how it happened.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

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    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    key words. Police Abuse. Virginia.
    I'm aware that police abuse exists here - I try to remember names when applicable, like Patricia Cook and Delma Tower.
    But that's not what I'm talking about. It seems like Idaho has a wealth of stories of the entire system working against an individual.

    Patricia Cook's murderer is in prison, and is likely going to be there until he dies.
    If it happened in Idaho, I get the impression that Patricia Cook's family would have filed a complaint about her murder, and then would have noticed that all of a sudden police cars were following them everywhere, pulling them over, and night-sticking their tail lights on the way to the cab.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Maybe AF could help me on this one; wasn't there a law abiding man who shot a cop during a no knock raid? This was about a year or two ago and I haven't heard anything else about it. IIRC, they raided his home for drugs, it being early in the morning, he armed himself and shot one of the first people through the door. They didn't kill him and he didn't kill the cop but they were trying to give him something like 45 years. They might have found a personal bag worth of drugs. (no more than a few grams of weed)

    Some of the details may be off but I believe that is generally how it happened.
    Yes, I recall this case as well, but am drawing a blank on the particulars...

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Me too. I'd plus rep for the eloquent effort but I'm out of pressure cooker colored projectiles.
    Got it. I just happen to have a few pressure cooker colored projectiles.
    Last edited by Origanalist; 05-12-2013 at 08:28 PM.
    "The Patriarch"

  25. #22
    LOL my doppleganger got this one as well.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You're better off...I'm tellin' ya, people have lost their collective minds out there and have gone full retard, for the most part.

    Best to avoid them altogether.

    Was at the local smoke shop the other day, picking up a carton of Indian smokes for the wife.

    Went to use the ATM and handed my daughter the carton to hold while I finagled the cash machine.

    From the broad's reaction behind the counter, you'd think I just gave her a stick of plutonium to hold.

    "You can't do that!!! She can't touch them!!! That's against the law!!!"

    Me - "Yeah...against the law. Tell me lady, what isn't against the law these days? You gonna report me now?"

    Counter broad - "Well, no, but if a cop walked in here, we could have all gone to jail."

    Me - "Lady, you better wake up to a harsh reality. We are ALL going to go to jail before much longer, here in the 'Land of the Free'. Tell me, I see that big sign behind you, 'Support The Troops', really, why? Because they are 'protecting our freedom'? Really? Think about that..."

    You've handled that situation very poorly. It is not her fault that the government sucks. I dealt with these types of situations as a cashier in NJ. You are not helping anyone. Do not take anything out on the private sector. It would only push them towards seeking public protection from you.

  27. #24
    This, sniffs Greenbank with the practiced pomposity of a pampered parasite, was a grave offense “against the peace and dignity of the State of Idaho.”
    But smashing into a private residence with automatic weapons sure ain't.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul




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  29. #25
    Heaven help us. Is the answer not obvious?
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarn Solen View Post
    You've handled that situation very poorly. It is not her fault that the government sucks. I dealt with these types of situations as a cashier in NJ. You are not helping anyone. Do not take anything out on the private sector. It would only push them towards seeking public protection from you.
    It's not?

    Then who's fault is it?

    OK, I get it, so you are/were a cashier and don't like getting barked at by customers.

    So, maybe, don't start by barking at your customers.

    What, should I have just wilted, kept my mouth shut and moved along, like people do at the gate rape lines, doing the Compliance Shuffle?

    It would only push them towards seeking public protection from you
    See Something, Say Something.

    I sorta thought that was my point...
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-13-2013 at 11:48 AM.

  31. #27
    I like a lot of your posts, but I never have any problem saying something, when I see something over the top.

    If someone hands cigs to a kid, even to hold, then cashier can become liable. No one wants a fine well into the thousands and a loss of job to go with it. You aren't that important to her. It really does not matter what her personal stance is.

    I am not the type to bark at a customer. If she came out barking (rather than trying to explain), that would be the thing she did do wrong. I would say something along the lines of us both unfairly getting in trouble, because that would be a distinct possibility. That is the reality, because we live in a police state. It is not going away just like that.



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