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Thread: Confirmed:Miranda Rights Won't Be Read For Boston Bombing Suspect

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Matthew 23:24
    Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

    I get it you not happy with how they handled the investigation. In the end they did catch the terrorist now you can let all your conspiracy theories die. But knowing most conspiracy theorists this is a call to redouble the effort to spread the "truth".
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Yes drones are murder of civilians. They are immoral on the same level as terrorism. However you don't run the country, the government does. These terrorists are as bad as the government and deserve no sympathy. Just because someone thinks the terrorists should be stopped and prevented does not mean they support the war.

    Lastly there are a lot of people that do think our bombing of civilians is moral and the terrorist acts perpetrated against us are immoral. They are hypocrites but they are still right that terrorist acts are immoral.

    Wow! That hurt my head to read.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Yes drones are murder of civilians. They are immoral on the same level as terrorism. However you don't run the country, the government does. These terrorists are as bad as the government and deserve no sympathy. Just because someone thinks the terrorists should be stopped and prevented does not mean they support the war.

    Lastly there are a lot of people that do think our bombing of civilians is moral and the terrorist acts perpetrated against us are immoral. They are hypocrites but they are still right that terrorist acts are immoral.
    How in the world did you extract this from what I typed?

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I get it you not happy with how they handled the investigation. In the end they did catch the terrorist now you can let all your conspiracy theories die. But knowing most conspiracy theorists this is a call to redouble the effort to spread the "truth".
    You know, beyond a reasonable doubt that the people apprehended are terrorists?

    Wow, we don't need courts and juries--we need people, like you, to protect us from the terrorist. Problem solved. <s>
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Yes, I am out of my mind for not buying the government narrative. Government is never wrong, they care about the people and they would never hurt another human being, intentionally, to garner more control. <s>
    I don't believe the government. I also don't think that every single terrorist attack or mass murder is a government inside job. Right now you are spinning worse then government ever did. I see your crazy and paranoid tendencies as more of a danger to me then official narrative. Official narrative does not change things as they are. But you on other hand polarizing people in a bad way. People that would be receptive to ideas of blowback and immorality of war are to scared to talk to you because of how crazy you sound.

    You are just one big distraction from important conversations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I get it you not happy with how they handled the investigation. In the end they did catch the terrorist now you can let all your conspiracy theories die.
    Wow....if TV sez it, it must be true...no my friend, you don't get it.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    How in the world did you extract this from what I typed?
    You keep talking about what our government is doing overseas. I addressed that. Anything extra are my thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    You know, beyond a reasonable doubt that the people apprehended are terrorists?

    Wow, we don't need courts and juries--we need people, like you, to protect us from the terrorist. Problem solved. <s>
    I don't believe in US justice system. Anyone can come up with their theories. Mine is more likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Wow....if TV sez it, it must be true...no my friend, you don't get it.
    What conspiracy theories saying is not the truth. There is more spin then just government did it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  11. #69
    Here is the problem I have with how they are treating this person.

    1. At this point in time, he is innocent. (he has not been found guilty in a court of law)
    2. Since he is innocent, he deserves all of the rights anyone is supposed to have.

    He has not been found guilty of anything in a court of law and thus they have no reason to deprive him of his Miranda Rights.

    If our government can just willy-nilly go around depriving people of their rights without even having gone through the due process of law, that would mean there is no due process and they can bypass the law anytime they feel the need. This is wrong and everybody no matter what the government may think about them, should have their rights to the due process of law kept intact. There can be no exceptions just because someone is charged with a crime the government claims is special.
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 04-21-2013 at 09:36 AM.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I don't believe the government. I also don't think that every single terrorist attack or mass murder is a government inside job. Right now you are spinning worse then government ever did. I see your crazy and paranoid tendencies as more of a danger to me then official narrative. Official narrative does not change things as they are. But you on other hand polarizing people in a bad way. People that would be receptive to ideas of blowback and immorality of war are to scared to talk to you because of how crazy you sound.

    You are just one big distraction from important conversations.

    Yes I am out of my cotton-picking mind. I want more liberty than security!! I want unabashed, unbridled, unobstructed liberty for all!!!

    How about more legislation on gun powder because the alleged terrorists used gun powder. How about more censorship and control over the internet--since the alleged terrorist used the internet to converse and learn how to make bombs. It's all about control buddy boy, quite fooling yourself.

    How about more encroachment on our liberties--because that is exactly what is going to happen. That is the Cui Bono government has in all of this.
    Last edited by donnay; 04-21-2013 at 09:50 AM.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Here is the problem I have with how they are treating this person.

    1. At this point in time, he is innocent. (he has not been found guilty in a court of law)
    2. Since he is innocent, he deserves all of the rights anyone is supposed to have.

    He has not been found guilty of anything in a court of law and thus they have no reason to deprive him of his Miranda Rights.

    If our government can just willy-nilly go around depriving people of their rights without even having gone through the due process of law, that would mean there is no due process and they can bypass the law anytime they feel the need. This is wrong and everybody no matter what the government may think about them, should have their rights to the due process of law kept intact. There can be no exceptions just because someone is charged with a crime the government claims is special.
    Read it and weep...

    PATRIOT ACT Broken Down

    The Patriot Act permits:
    •Secret FBI and police searches of your home and office.
    •Secret government wiretaps on your phone, computer and Internet activity.
    •Secret investigations of your bank records, credit cards and other financial records.
    •Secret investigation of your library and book activities.
    •Secret examination of your medical, travel and business records.
    •The freezing of funds and assets without prior notice or appeal.
    •The creation of secret "watch lists" that ban those named from air and other travel.

    Under the Patriot Act your are guilty without any right to prove you are innocent.

    According to George W. Bush: "The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper."

    Original source: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ogID=278547627

    SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration's "enemy combatant" definition to all American citizens who "may" have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new defifnition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is "any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.") Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isn't broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.

    Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person "had inferred from conduct" that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the "enemy combatant" terrorist designation.

    SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.

    SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national database of "suspected terrorists" and radically expand the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as "terrorist." These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government.

    SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board.

    SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and again strip them of all rights under the "enemy combatant" designation.

    SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.

    SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a state of war exists.

    SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.

    SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contemp charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.

    SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us: "this is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever."

    SECTION 111 expands the definition of the "enemy combatant" designation.

    SECTION 122 restates the government's newly announced power of "surveillance without a court order."

    SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads, "thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that directed against more conventional types of crime."

    *Note: Over and over again, in subsection after subsection, the second Patriot Act states that its new Soviet-type powers will be used to fight international terrorism, domestic terrorism and other types of crimes. Of course the government has already announced in Section 802 of the first USA Patriot act that any crime is considered domestic terrorism.

    SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to totally break down any and all walls of privacy.

    The government states that they must look at everything to "determine" if individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

    SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover coroners' and medical examiners' operations whenever they see fit. See how this is like Bill Clinton's special medical examiner he had in Arkansas that ruled that people had committed suicide when their arms and legs had been cut off.

    SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

    SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.

    SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

    SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone investigating Haliburton.

    SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The database will also be used to "stop other unlawful activities." It will share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same purposes.

    SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of information sharing.

    SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all preventative measures – has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network.

    SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments.

    SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.

    SECTION 402 is titled "Providing Material Support to Terrorism." The section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual even had the intent to aid terrorists.

    SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.

    SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or "other criminals" to use encryption in the commission of a crime.

    SECTION 408 creates "lifetime parole" (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

    SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

    SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

    SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

    SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities.



    C-Live, Love Oppose Evil. Novus Ordo Seclorum.


    Source:
    http://libertyforlife.com/law/patrio...roken_down.htm
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Here is the problem I have with how they are treating this person.
    Not reading someone their Rights is not the same as denying someone their Rights.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Not reading someone their Rights is not the same as denying someone their Rights.
    Treating someone differently from everyone else is wrong no matter what anybody says.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Read it and weep...
    ~snip
    I know, and it's just wrong.

    How can they tell if someone is involved in terrorist activities if they don't prove it in a court of law?
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 04-21-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Yes I am out of my cotton-picking mind. I want more liberty than security!! I want unabashed, unbridled, unobstructed liberty for all!!!

    How about more legislation on gun powder because the alleged terrorists used gun powder. How about more censorship and control over the internet--since the alleged terrorist used the internet to converse and learn how to make bombs. It's all about control buddy boy, quite fooling yourself.

    How about more encroachment on our liberties--because that is exactly what is going to happen. That is the Cui Bono government has in all of this.
    What you want is not relevant to your conspiracy theories. I want liberty over security as well. However I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    What you want is not relevant to your conspiracy theories. I want liberty over security as well. However I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories.

    No, you do not subscribe to stepping out of the box and thinking on your own. Thanks for admitting it.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I know, and it's just wrong.

    How can they tell if someone is involved in terrorist activities if they don't prove it in a court of law?

    They don't care, that is the bottom line. Before too long we will all be labeled enemy combatants for simply asking questions.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    No, you do not subscribe to stepping out of the box and thinking on your own. Thanks for admitting it.
    Yeah, those who can't do that wouldn't be able to solve any crimes that involved conspirators. Police investigators are conspiracy theorists.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    That's true, and I'm all in favor of changing our foreign policy and just leaving the rest of the world alone. However, the difference between this bombing and the drone bombings are that this bomber intentionally killed innocent people, whereas in the drone bombings innocent people are killed, but it's unintentional.

    I'm not justifying it, just explaining the difference.
    So what? This is an utterly trivial difference - that is, it is a difference that makes no difference at all.

    The terror bombers and the drone bombers both know that innocents will die as a direct consequence of their actions - and they both go ahead and do it anyway.

    Terror bombers (like the Boston bomber) kill people indiscriminantly and do not have a particular reason for wanting any specific one of their victims to die.

    Drone bombers also kill people they do not have any particular reason for wanting dead (exactly like the terror bomber does) - and they do so in addition to trying to kill some specific person(s) they DO want to die.

    That is why they are both vile & despicable murderers. The fact that the drone bombers are deliberately trying to kill some particular person(s) is no more relevant to this than the color of the clothes they wear. And if the difference actually is important, it would make the drone bombers even worse than the terror bombers - since the drone bombers are knowingly doing exactly the same thing as the terror bombers (i.e., killing innocent people) while also doing something else of extremely dubious morality (namely: assassination).
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I know, and it's just wrong.

    How can they tell if someone is involved in terrorist activities if they don't prove it in a court of law?
    That's the point, mere accusations are enough to trigger the effects of this fine piece of legislation..

    Don't worry though "Our-Government" would never abuse this type of power....



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  25. #81
    TACITLY THIS IS CORRECT
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Read it and weep...

    PATRIOT ACT Broken Down

    The Patriot Act permits:
    •Secret FBI and police searches of your home and office.
    •Secret government wiretaps on your phone, computer and Internet activity.
    •Secret investigations of your bank records, credit cards and other financial records.
    •Secret investigation of your library and book activities.
    •Secret examination of your medical, travel and business records.
    •The freezing of funds and assets without prior notice or appeal.
    •The creation of secret "watch lists" that ban those named from air and other travel.

    Under the Patriot Act your are guilty without any right to prove you are innocent.

    According to George W. Bush: "The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper."

    Original source: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ogID=278547627

    SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration's "enemy combatant" definition to all American citizens who "may" have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new defifnition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is "any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.") Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isn't broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.

    Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person "had inferred from conduct" that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the "enemy combatant" terrorist designation.

    SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.

    SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national database of "suspected terrorists" and radically expand the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as "terrorist." These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government.

    SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board.

    SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and again strip them of all rights under the "enemy combatant" designation.

    SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.

    SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a state of war exists.

    SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.

    SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contemp charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.

    SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us: "this is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever."

    SECTION 111 expands the definition of the "enemy combatant" designation.

    SECTION 122 restates the government's newly announced power of "surveillance without a court order."

    SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads, "thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that directed against more conventional types of crime."

    *Note: Over and over again, in subsection after subsection, the second Patriot Act states that its new Soviet-type powers will be used to fight international terrorism, domestic terrorism and other types of crimes. Of course the government has already announced in Section 802 of the first USA Patriot act that any crime is considered domestic terrorism.

    SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to totally break down any and all walls of privacy.

    The government states that they must look at everything to "determine" if individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

    SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover coroners' and medical examiners' operations whenever they see fit. See how this is like Bill Clinton's special medical examiner he had in Arkansas that ruled that people had committed suicide when their arms and legs had been cut off.

    SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

    SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.

    SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

    SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone investigating Haliburton.

    SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The database will also be used to "stop other unlawful activities." It will share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same purposes.

    SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of information sharing.

    SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all preventative measures – has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network.

    SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments.

    SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.

    SECTION 402 is titled "Providing Material Support to Terrorism." The section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual even had the intent to aid terrorists.

    SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.

    SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or "other criminals" to use encryption in the commission of a crime.

    SECTION 408 creates "lifetime parole" (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

    SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

    SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

    SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

    SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities.



    C-Live, Love Oppose Evil. Novus Ordo Seclorum.


    Source:
    http://libertyforlife.com/law/patrio...roken_down.htm

  26. #82
    most curiously we all have more inalienable rights that we can manifest in public than
    either the UNION or the CONFEDERACY during the height of our great CIVIL WAR and
    we clearly are freer than many who lived through Stalin's USSR or Hitler's 3rd Reich.
    Last edited by Aratus; 04-21-2013 at 12:27 PM. Reason: our Bill of Rights has been herringgutted by our national security people

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Here is the problem I have with how they are treating this person.

    1. At this point in time, he is innocent. (he has not been found guilty in a court of law)
    2. Since he is innocent, he deserves all of the rights anyone is supposed to have.

    He has not been found guilty of anything in a court of law and thus they have no reason to deprive him of his Miranda Rights.

    If our government can just willy-nilly go around depriving people of their rights without even having gone through the due process of law, that would mean there is no due process and they can bypass the law anytime they feel the need. This is wrong and everybody no matter what the government may think about them, should have their rights to the due process of law kept intact. There can be no exceptions just because someone is charged with a crime the government claims is special.
    They can bypass the law anytime they feel the need. They can imprison a person without probable cause. The law (Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 32.1(b)(1)) requires them to hold a "preliminary hearing" to determine whether there's probable cause, but they can deny him that hearing and simply create a record falsely stating that he "waived" the hearing (even when transcripts show he did nothing of the sort). They can do it in broad daylight, and it can be reported on this forum, and no one will mind. When they see that, and they are watching, they know they can get away with it again.
    Last edited by better-dead-than-fed; 04-21-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    most curiously we have more inalienable rights that we can manifest in public than
    either the UNION or the COFEDERACY during the height of our great CIVIL WAR and
    we clearly are freer than many who lived through Stalin's USSR or Hitler's 3rd Reich.
    Some folks are more free than some of them were, try explaining how "free" he is to some poor inmate serving a 40+ year beef for weed...

    The modern day Jews are those who consume "drugs" and our gulags are chock full...In fact I'm willing to bet our fine country has given those WW-2 villains a run for their money as far as number of citizens persecuted/prosecuted..

    The saddest part is even here on RPF it's really easy to find folks to argue differently.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Not reading someone their Rights is not the same as denying someone their Rights.
    Admitting unwarned statements at trial is the same as denying someone their Rights.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    we clearly are freer than many who lived through Stalin's USSR or Hitler's 3rd Reich.
    If you believe that, it's only because your number hasn't come up yet.

  31. #87
    Curiously enough, I feel more Americans were freer between 1865 and 1875 than
    between 1845 and 1865, and I feel that in the last 50 years we were more free in
    the 1990s as a decade than either earlier or since then. We have only ten years for
    the fragile time between the Cold War and the War on Terror. We are almost a total
    police state but like the time~frame between the end of Reconstruction up until the
    start of the Civil Rights movement, we have our moments of happiness and freedom.
    Last edited by Aratus; 04-21-2013 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Was our great and four year long Civil War about freedom & free will?

  32. #88
    The whole world is the battlefield in the GWOT.

    So, therefore...


    “If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it.” - Congressman Peter King R-NY



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  34. #89
    (up above... I misspelled Confederacy)


    the 1960s Warren court Miranda decision tends
    to restrain the police from a situational fervor...
    Last edited by Aratus; 04-21-2013 at 12:30 PM.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    At some point in time, there was a presumption of innocence in this country. The burden of proof is on the state. None of the conjecture we've been fed is material to what actually occurred. The trial should be public, but it won't be, under the aegis of "national security". The kid will be black-bagged.
    Conspiracy theories grow like mushrooms...only when they feed us $#@! and keep us in the dark.
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    The state's primary concern in handling terrorism is to keep it's own dealings shrouded in secrecy. Conspiracy theories aside, the Central Intelligence Agency is involved politically all over the world. 'Tis a fact, jack. There is no way they will allow a magnifying glass to scrutinize any of their activity in Chechnya. Whether this kid is innocent or guilty, alive or dead, whether the people of Boston get justice, whether foreign combatants or peaceful citizens have their Rights suspended due to "public safety", and even whether or not the CIA is actually behind the scenes in Chechnya... all of this is not important to the state. The kid will disappear, and the sheep will all baaaa in unison that the gubment knows so much more than us stupid common sheep, so's it's ok.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to otherone again.

    Glad to see that somebody gets it! Folks, forget for a minute about whether one particular "conspiracy angle" or another in this story is true. There is enough admitted to be true to cause serious concern!

    1) The older brother was already on a terror watchlist and had been interviewed by the FBI.
    2) The older brother should have been deported after he was convicted of a domestic assualt. He wasn't.
    3) Post that conviction, and post being on the watchlist, he went back and forth to Russia several times for months at a time. Immigrants in his situation, having a legal cloud over their head that could cause them to be deported, often don't go home even to go to important events like weddings and funerals because they are afraid that they won't be let back in. Yet he didn't have that fear. Why?
    4) The "catch and release" of the Saudi national. Glenn Beck, no friend of conspiracy theorists (except his own convoluted theories) is looking into that.
    5) The younger brother worked as a lifeguard for a former marine who had interrogated prisoners at Gitmo.

    Something stinks about the story. And it could very well be "clandestine ops gone bad." But if so, that needs to be exposed!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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