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Thread: "Mental Health" problems can be ordinary, under new standards, gun buy triggers overbroad

  1. #1

    "Mental Health" problems can be ordinary, under new standards, gun buy triggers overbroad

    They shouldn't do it anyhow, having DRs able to list patients so they can't buy guns without the patient knowing, unless there has been some judicial determination of incompetence. But regardless, this psychology article underlines how the new standards will make just having a personality be a 'personality disorder' and having grief, say over death or job loss, can be 'diagnosible mental illness'.

    http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/grie...-dsm-v-0204134
    Last edited by jct74; 04-19-2013 at 01:33 PM.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

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  3. #2
    They've even taken Prozac now and repackaged it under the name "Serafem" and are marketing it to women for their PMS. (Technically they call it PMDD.)

    They won't stop until every person is on some psychotropic drug. (Right now according to the Wall Street Journal it's 1 in 5 adults in America already on psyche meds.)

    Coincidentally, now they are wanting to take guns away from... drumroll please.... anyone with a mental disorder. All of this is so perfect it almost seems hard to believe that it was by design. (And yet I am leaning toward thinking that it probably was.)
    "Some supporters of the war use their religion to justify the war. Evidently, I’ve been reading from a different Bible." — Ron Paul
    “I'm supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want.” ― Ron Paul

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  4. #3
    This is horrible:

    Currently, however, there is an exemption for bereavement in the diagnostic criteria that allows for such symptoms to persist for up to two months after the death of a loved one. Only after two months of persistent and pervasive depressive symptoms can a diagnosis of MDD be made in the context of bereavement. This exemption acknowledges that while grieving can look and feel virtually identical to depression, it is, quite simply, not depression. Unfortunately, the new version of the DSM will remove the bereavement exemption from the diagnostic criteria, and come May, the very appropriate reaction to the death of a loved one described above will be pathologized and diagnosed as MDD.
    Even before the change, what if I need more than two months to grieve? $#@!, I've been married 17 years, and I think I'd be pretty devastated for longer than a couple months if God forbid anything happened to my wife. I think I grieved longer than two months after both of the last two cats I had to put to sleep when their days were done!! Shesh. It's really insidious, this DSM.
    "Some supporters of the war use their religion to justify the war. Evidently, I’ve been reading from a different Bible." — Ron Paul
    “I'm supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want.” ― Ron Paul

    My crazy whistling YouTube channel
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlinDave View Post
    ... now they are wanting to take guns away from... drumroll please.... anyone with a mental disorder. ...
    Alcohol Intoxication (being temporarily drunk) and Nicotine Withdrawal are already official mental disorders, per DSM-IV-TR.

  6. #5
    This gun control thing is being pushed from any angle they can think of.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  7. #6
    And pushing back is a "mental disorder" in and of itself...

  8. #7
    Virtually every emotion experienced by a human being — sadness, grief, anxiety, frustration, impatience, excitement — is now being classified as a “mental disorder” demanding chemical treatment (with prescription medications, of course).
    Problem.Reaction.Solution.

    http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/12/...ntal-disorder/

  9. #8
    Whoa this is weird. I "liked" the article to post it on Facebook and I noticed it had a little pad lock symbol on the bottom corner of the picture while on Facebook. Then I noticed it automatically categorized it as "only me" that can see it. I was able to switch it to "friends", but damn I've never seen that happen before in all these years.

    Was Facebook trying to censor that or was it a glitch?
    Founder and leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army.



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  11. #9
    I say treat doctors like cops; recognize that they can legally ruin your life on a misguided whim and avoid them unless you absolutely can't help it. When you can't help it, don't tell them anything you don't have to. Anything you say can (and will) be used against you...

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VanBummel View Post
    I say treat doctors like cops; recognize that they can legally ruin your life on a misguided whim and avoid them unless you absolutely can't help it. When you can't help it, don't tell them anything you don't have to. Anything you say can (and will) be used against you...
    This is the most sound advice I can think of.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by VanBummel View Post
    I say treat doctors like cops; recognize that they can legally ruin your life on a misguided whim and avoid them unless you absolutely can't help it. When you can't help it, don't tell them anything you don't have to. Anything you say can (and will) be used against you...
    The problem is, with psychiatrists, it is perilous to invoke your right to remain silent. The Fifth Amendment Right Against Self-Incrimination applies only in "criminal" cases, not in civil proceedings like civil-commitment. Miranda v Arizona does not apply either. If you remain silent with a psychiatrist, you will be accused of exhibiting a dangerous lack of "insight" into your alleged "condition". You will be accused of exhibiting a lack of "insight" into your alleged "need for treatment".

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by VanBummel View Post
    I say treat doctors like cops; recognize that they can legally ruin your life on a misguided whim and avoid them unless you absolutely can't help it. When you can't help it, don't tell them anything you don't have to. Anything you say can (and will) be used against you...
    Absolutely correct. I don't trust them at all.
    "The Patriarch"

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by better-dead-than-fed View Post
    The problem is, with psychiatrists, it is perilous to invoke your right to remain silent. The Fifth Amendment Right Against Self-Incrimination applies only in "criminal" cases, not in civil proceedings like civil-commitment. Miranda v Arizona does not apply either. If you remain silent with a psychiatrist, you will be accused of exhibiting a dangerous lack of "insight" into your alleged "condition". You will be accused of exhibiting a lack of "insight" into your alleged "need for treatment".
    So lie through your teeth.
    "The Patriarch"

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by VanBummel View Post
    I say treat doctors like cops; recognize that they can legally ruin your life on a misguided whim and avoid them unless you absolutely can't help it. When you can't help it, don't tell them anything you don't have to. Anything you say can (and will) be used against you...
    It's a sad day. Reminds me of that movie "Changeling." (no matter what you say or do not say, your words and actions can be manipulated to make you seem insane)

    I was piss tested when I was around 16 year old at the hospital and tested positive for marijuana. (at the hospital) For years when I'd go in the doctors would not prescribe me with any narcotic pain killers. They'd never have an explanation. (I was in some serious pain, too. Middle ear infection, for example.) They would only prescribe me the non-narcotic pain killers like motrin or ultram. When I was talking with the triage nurse years later, she brought up my record and asked if I still smoked marijuana. Shocked that that was even in my file after all those years and that she'd ask me, I answered, 'No, I haven't smoked in years.' She erased that I was a drug addict from my file and low and behold after that when I was in pain I wasn't restricted to non-narcotics.

    It's out of hand when a child is determined able to ingest a drug without parental consent (Plan B) but I, a fully grown adult, cannot medicate myself as I see fit. A goddamn extortion racket really. Don't pay for your permission slip and you can't get it. And on that same note, you can't even medicate yourself alternatively without the State wanting in on the action. (prison terms) It annoys me to no end.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    So lie through your teeth.
    Pathological liar with borderline sociopathic tendencies. Displayed blatant disregard for authority.

    Hell, you better edit that post. It might go in your record someday. It's a brave new world, afterall. You take a $#@!, and .gov is going to want to know the details.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  18. #16
    And THIS is why I don't support the background checks bills. People don't understand how easily this can be abused and what this would really do. This really would be taking away peoples guns, yet they laugh it off and say that isn't the case and we are just paranoid. Bull$#@!.



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  20. #17
    The govt stresses us out, and then uses it as an excuse to disarm us.

    The Silent Epidemic In A Broken, Deranged System: Stress
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...-system-stress

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBummel View Post
    I say treat doctors like cops; recognize that they can legally ruin your life on a misguided whim and avoid them unless you absolutely can't help it. When you can't help it, don't tell them anything you don't have to. Anything you say can (and will) be used against you...
    It's very sad that it has come to this. Hopefully though, they'll be less people on psychotropics, preferring natural treatments that won't make them go on shooting sprees.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  21. #18
    The mental health industry is suffering from a severe case of OCD (obsessive classification disorder)

  22. #19
    Medical authority once said being gay was a mental illness. They'd use any excuse to take away a gun.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

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  23. #20
    Here's transcription of a U.S. Attorney examining a government-paid psychiatrist. The government paid the psychiatrist to determine whether I was mentally capable of communicating with my attorney. Given the supposed purpose of his assignment, he sure was curious about some alleged guns.


    Q. ... you ... asked him about the amount, the large amount of ammunition that he also had in his apartment at the time; correct?

    A. Yes.

    ...

    Q. Now, when you asked him specific questions about the guns and specifically the huge amount of ammunition that he had... when you were asking him some of these questions about his weapons, ... he said, "I need a lawyer here, really, to go into that"; correct?

    A. Yes.

    Q. And ... when you were asking him about the 10,000-plus rounds of ammunition, he just stated, "This conversation is over," .... Is that correct?

    A. Yes.

    Q. When you continued to ask him about the weapons and the ammunition, ... he asked you if you were trying to push his buttons when you were asking about the guns and ammo; is that correct?

    A. Correct.

    Q. And ... he pointed out to you that he felt that your questioning was remarkably similar to the prosecuting attorney's line of thought; correct?

    A. Yes.

    ...

    Q. How did you feel or what did you feel that this pertained to in terms of his ability to communicate with his attorney?

    A. Well, part of it was also to, you know, to get a -- to develop an understanding of how well he could communicate at all about what he had, what he owned. And so he was able to talk about it so, you know, there was not an issue. I mean, he had a reasonable memory of what he had, so that was not so much an issue, so he -- it did seem, based on what he said, that he could communicate with his attorney about what he owned and say something about what he did with the weapons.
    -- transcript, pages 20 - 24

    So a defendant has to tell a government-paid psychiatrist what weapons he owns and what he does with them, and this is just done to see if the defendant is capable of communicating with his attorney, and this is all done for the defendant's benefit and welfare, so we shouldn't complain about it.
    Last edited by better-dead-than-fed; 04-25-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sailingaway View Post
    They shouldn't do it anyhow, having DRs able to list patients so they can't buy guns without the patient knowing, unless there has been some judicial determination of incompetence. But regardless, this psychology article underlines how the new standards will make just having a personality be a 'personality disorder' and having grief, say over death or job loss, can be 'diagnosible mental illness'.

    http://t.co/b90YUwcknj
    Those already are mental illnesses according to doctors. If you have a peronality, they will make some $#@! up like borderline personality disorder even though they can't define it. As for buying guns, psychiatrists already have too much power and can have you hospitalized if they feel you are a harm to yourself or others, even if it is not rational.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by better-dead-than-fed View Post
    The problem is, with psychiatrists, it is perilous to invoke your right to remain silent. The Fifth Amendment Right Against Self-Incrimination applies only in "criminal" cases, not in civil proceedings like civil-commitment. Miranda v Arizona does not apply either. If you remain silent with a psychiatrist, you will be accused of exhibiting a dangerous lack of "insight" into your alleged "condition". You will be accused of exhibiting a lack of "insight" into your alleged "need for treatment".
    Sounds like you met a psychiatrist. Anything that is not pure excitement to take their meds is considered a lack of insight. They don't even consider it rational to weigh the pros and cons of meds.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Great article... Couldn't agree more. I also loved the "Disease Mongering Engine" at the end... Very funny (if the whole thing wasn't so damn sad).
    "Some supporters of the war use their religion to justify the war. Evidently, I’ve been reading from a different Bible." — Ron Paul
    “I'm supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want.” ― Ron Paul

    My crazy whistling YouTube channel
    My crazy whistling music on iTunes

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlinDave View Post
    This is horrible:



    Even before the change, what if I need more than two months to grieve? $#@!, I've been married 17 years, and I think I'd be pretty devastated for longer than a couple months if God forbid anything happened to my wife. I think I grieved longer than two months after both of the last two cats I had to put to sleep when their days were done!! Shesh. It's really insidious, this DSM.
    Grieving the death of a loved one: Mental disorder.
    Not grieving the death of a loved one: Mental disorder.

    So outliving your grandparents is now a mental disorder?
    WTF?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Flugel89 View Post
    Grieving the death of a loved one: Mental disorder.
    Not grieving the death of a loved one: Mental disorder.

    So outliving your grandparents is now a mental disorder?
    WTF?
    Actually not grieving someones deathh is perfectly fine. Doctors think you are normal when you are happy and psychotic when angry.

  30. #26
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