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Thread: Christian florist faces fines for refusing to provide flowers for gay wedding

  1. #1

    Default Christian florist faces fines for refusing to provide flowers for gay wedding

    Some conservatives think libertarians are hypocritically silent on laws like these. Are they right? Is the law just?

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/eld...ng-to-provide/

    A Christian florist in Washington state could be slapped with hefty fines because she refused to provide a floral arrangement for a gay “wedding.”

    Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson filed charges today in Benton County Superior Court.


    On March 1 Barronelle Stutzman, owner of Arlene’s Flowers and Gifts in Richland, refused to sell flowers to Robert Ingersoll for his “marriage” to Curt Freed.

    “He said he decided to get married, and before he got through I grabbed his hand and said, ‘I am sorry. I can't do your wedding because of my relationship with Jesus Christ,’" Stutzman said. She said it was the only wedding she had declined in 37 years.

    But Ferguson said that stance violates the law.

    “Under the Consumer Protection Act, it is unlawful to discriminate against customers on the basis of sexual orientation,” Ferguson said. “If a business provides a product or service to opposite-sex couples for their weddings, then it must provide same-sex couples the same product or service.”



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  3. #2

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    The law shouldn't have anything to do with it imho.

    The reason the segregation thing was hard was the law MADE people act a certain way and there was no free market.

    Why don't they just use another florist and tell everyone what this one did? I'd think there would be substantial private impact from loss of business.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  4. #3

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    I mean, seriously, would you want someone who thought they'd be damned for it doing flowers for your wedding? Don't you think it would kind of ruin the tone?
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  5. #4

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    How long till a Church is sued for refusing to marry a gay "couple"?

  6. #5

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    I thought we had a right to refuse to serve anybody we decided not to serve.

  7. #6

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    There's another thread on this. It's not about "gay marriage" it is about "property rights."
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  8. #7

    Default

    I'd tell the florist: "Look, you're not invited, give us the flowers and we'll give you money. Have a blessed day"

    The couple buying the flowers are probably Christian.
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    “If while on your way you meet no one your equal or better, steadily continue on your way alone. There is no fellowship with fools.”
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    "Asking why there are no Libertarian countries is akin to asking why there are no Atheist Theocracies." - #AncapJackal

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart3 View Post
    I'd tell the florist: "Look, you're not invited, give us the flowers and we'll give you money. Have a blessed day"
    And that would do what? The florist probably won't even listen or pay attention to it.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart3 View Post
    I'd tell the florist: "Look, you're not invited, give us the flowers and we'll give you money. Have a blessed day"

    The couple buying the flowers are probably Christian.
    ummmm.... yeaaahhhhhh....
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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    ummmm.... yeaaahhhhhh....
    What's so fantastical? The addressing of the florist or the fact that there are same sex couples that are "Christian?"
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  12. #11

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    This is bull $#@!: no way about it.

    Christians are the easiest group to push around these days.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  13. #12

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    I've heard hearsay more than once, about some lesbian bar or another, refusing to provide service to men, in one of the instances on a "gay gal" night, even demanding them to leave or allowing a blind eye to fights due to such, yet I've never really heard anyone complain about it though. (seems the story is usually men not feminine enough or plainly, who seem too straight)

    I've heard hearsay of instances where beatnik black clubs, as best I can describe the scene, aren't particularly friendly to white customers as well. No real complaints, however.

    I've personally seen country/biker bars where gay people don't really come around, because it's not really best considering the crowd. Which tend to have a fight every other evening anyway. Those I've visited myself.

    I also know that there are private restaurants in this country, in which you have to know someone, in order to be accepted as a member allowed to frequent.
    Not to mention golfing clubs and other instances.

    There are all-men organizations in this country.
    The nation manages to survive.


    Yet for all that, bring up a Christian florist, who won't sell product to a gay wedding, and suddenly lawsuits have to take place.
    Last edited by Victor Grey; 04-11-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    What's so fantastical? The addressing of the florist or the fact that there are same sex couples that are "Christian?"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_and_Bacchus
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    List of Liberty-minded candidates for Congress in 2014
    Party: Libertarian (since registration) / Religion: none (Ignostic)

    “If while on your way you meet no one your equal or better, steadily continue on your way alone. There is no fellowship with fools.”
    ― Dhammapada, v. 61

    "Asking why there are no Libertarian countries is akin to asking why there are no Atheist Theocracies." - #AncapJackal

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    What's so fantastical? The addressing of the florist or the fact that there are same sex couples that are "Christian?"
    Both.
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  16. #15

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    She owns the flowers. She can sell to whoever the hell she wants.

    The gay couple can shop elsewhere.

    End of story.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Both.
    It's a good thing whatever god they believe in, if there is a god or gods, will be their ultimate judge, not you or anybody who claims to speak for a god.
    Last edited by Antischism; 04-12-2013 at 06:13 AM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antischism View Post
    It's a good thing whatever god they believe in, if there is a god or gods, will be their ultimate judge, not you or anybody who claims to speak for a god.
    Did I ever even mention God in this thread? Much less claim to speak for Him?
    I'm an adventurer, writer and bitcoin market analyst.

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  19. #18

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    Business owner refuses service........


    Nothing in that sentence to argue about is there?






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