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Thread: In a moronic rant, Bill Maher trashes libertarians, dumb enough to include Paul Ryan

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by misean View Post
    There isn't a specific libertarian foreign policy. Foreign policy is actually very debatable. The main purpose of government is to protect the country. Most libertarians are non-interventionists, but that doesn't mean closing down all foreign military bases.
    Libertarian foreign policy is exactly like every other conflict resolution policy. Do not initiate force against others' property.

    From a constitutional point of view, I don't see where permanent bases on property not under US jurisdiction would be authorized. Nor why that would be wise from practical point of view.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by misean View Post
    There isn't a specific libertarian foreign policy. Foreign policy is actually very debatable. The main purpose of government is to protect the country. Most libertarians are non-interventionists, but that doesn't mean closing down all foreign military bases.
    I've never understood what foreign military bases have to do with "protecting the country."



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I've never understood what foreign military bases have to do with "protecting the country."
    Yeah, neither have I. Because they don't.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by abacabb View Post
    Why can't the guy admit he's not a libertarian, but a hedonistic socialist?

    If anything, libertarianism has been corrupted by conservatism, thanks to Ron Paul. Libertarians would have never been pro-life, pro-compromising on retaining social security for massive budget cuts and stuff of the like. The libertarian of today really is where regular non-Rockefeller conservatives were in the 60s, minus the saber rattling. There's absolutely nothing Randian about it.

    I don't think the teenage version of me would have even liked Ron Paul, because it was me who brought me to conservative understandings of social issues later in life.
    I agree with you 100% And would add Ron Paul brought Liberalism to the Republican party, in the definitive sense. Freedom + self-reliance.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I've never understood what foreign military bases have to do with "protecting the country."
    I would watch an interview or two with George Shultz. He was Reagan's Secretary of State. He comes across as both the smartest and most reasonable person that I have heard talk from someone in politics. He's definitely not a neocon and is basically a libertarian. Given that he was in the Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan administrations, he has some interesting stories that complicate the Lew Rockwell/Rothbard foreign policy view.

  8. #36
    No one should EVER be put into a cage because they SEEN something..Think about it!!!...You seen something so you should be put in a cage? That is insane!!!

    As it is right now someone or government could plant something on your computer and the government can arrest you and put you in a cage...How are you gonna prove you didn't see it?YOU CAN'T!

    Round abouts are far safer then stop lights and need no electric or government to control them.

  9. #37
    This rant is so transparent.

    Rand and "libertarians" are actually talking about issues that matter to the left, such as the drone strikes, decriminalizing marijuana, path to citizenship, etc and that's bad news for Democrats and the false left/right paradigm. Maher's rant is pure damage control when you consider Rand's upward polling lately. Slam the ideology before it picks up too much steam with Maher's own viewer base, Democrats. Can't have those folks viewing Rand positively...
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  10. #38
    Holy cow, as if you needed any more evidence that Bill Maher is an idiotic tool. The only thing that had anything to do with actual libertarianism in that rant was when he said the actual word. Paul fraking Ryan?!?! Really?!?!

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I've argued with some libertarians here who have said that stop lights should be abolished as well as all speed limits.

    These things should happen and we all really care about them, but... we don't really care about them.

    Our government is so massive, so aggressive, and so wasteful, that simply making it more transparent, ending the wars, restoring privacy and cutting out corporate graft would make things exponentially better for the mass of us and alleviate all of the most dire/pressing concerns.

    We don't even need to talk about seat belts, or heroin, or speed limits, or child porn. Compared to wars, debt, and a unitary executive branch, they just don't matter.
    Last edited by KingNothing; 04-06-2013 at 02:34 PM.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    These things should happen and we all really care about them, but... we don't really care about them.

    Our government is so massive, so aggressive, and so wasteful, that simply making it more transparent, ending the wars, restoring privacy and cutting out corporate graft would make things exponentially better for the mass of us and alleviate all of the most dire/pressing concerns.

    We don't even need to talk about seat belts, or heroin, or speed limits, or child porn. Compared to wars, debt, and a unitary executive branch, they just don't matter.
    Indeed. Issues like speed limits, pr0n, etc are just details that we discuss because they have to be dealt with at some point in transitioning from tyranny to liberty. Plus, the questions about these things are always going to come up when persuading statists. Walter Block has done us all a great favor by dealing with things like drunk driving and private roads. Hopefully, the ground he and other libertarians have laid will be the basis for moving the debate towards maximizing liberty and away from whether the D or R flavor of fascism is better.

    ETA: this nuance of debating issues in order to find a route to maximize liberty is very foreign to the modern Left and Right alike, so we're probably going to be dealing with stereotypes about libertarians for at least a generation or 2.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 04-06-2013 at 02:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    These things should happen and we all really care about them, but... we don't really care about them.

    Our government is so massive, so aggressive, and so wasteful, that simply making it more transparent, ending the wars, restoring privacy and cutting out corporate graft would make things exponentially better for the mass of us and alleviate all of the most dire/pressing concerns.

    We don't even need to talk about seat belts, or heroin, or speed limits, or child porn. Compared to wars, debt, and a unitary executive branch, they just don't matter.
    This is generally my focus, but other things need to known for when they ask, "But who will build the roads?" and all those dumb questions. Also, I definitely put the drug war as one of this country's huge issues.

  15. #42
    TLDR: Maher is lamenting the fact that libertarianism today doesn't mean what he incorrectly thought it meant 20 years ago.

    Seems to me you've got liberals and conservatives alike who each want libertarianism to become an inconsistent set of unprincipled political positions (like modern-day liberalism and conservatism), as opposed to a single, consistent, pure idea called "liberty."

    Well, they can all go $#@! themselves, because unfortunately for them our ideology actually has its core principle embedded in the name itself, so it's a little harder to distort
    Last edited by economics102; 04-07-2013 at 07:28 AM.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    This rant is so transparent.

    Rand and "libertarians" are actually talking about issues that matter to the left, such as the drone strikes, decriminalizing marijuana, path to citizenship, etc and that's bad news for Democrats and the false left/right paradigm. Maher's rant is pure damage control when you consider Rand's upward polling lately. Slam the ideology before it picks up too much steam with Maher's own viewer base, Democrats. Can't have those folks viewing Rand positively...
    Bingo. We have a winner.
    "Some supporters of the war use their religion to justify the war. Evidently, I’ve been reading from a different Bible." — Ron Paul
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  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yeah, the libertarians who deal with roads and highways like myself propose replacing stoplights with roundabouts and other rational solutions. Stoplights are wasteful and time consuming, like every public works program.
    Damn Stoplights! What a waste of gasoline. Speed up, hit the brakes, idle, repeat, ad nauseum. The fewer the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    This rant is so transparent.

    Rand and "libertarians" are actually talking about issues that matter to the left, such as the drone strikes, decriminalizing marijuana, path to citizenship, etc and that's bad news for Democrats and the false left/right paradigm. Maher's rant is pure damage control when you consider Rand's upward polling lately. Slam the ideology before it picks up too much steam with Maher's own viewer base, Democrats. Can't have those folks viewing Rand positively...
    Thread winner. That's the real agenda.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    It would be interesting to see him invite some libertarian-thinkers like tom woods or even an anarcho-capitalist like Stefan Molyneux onto his show and see how well he fares debating them.
    Nick Gillespie is no Tom Woods or Stefan Molyneux, but he does do a good job here.

    Last edited by mac_hine; 04-06-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  19. #46
    This is a very entertaining and well produced podcast exposing Maher as the intellectually dishonest and unfunny hack he truly is.

    Topic: Today’s show is a personal exercise to help me let go of a long-standing resentment against comedian and political commentator Bill Maher. Cory, Osborne and I analyze several clips from his HBO show, Real Time With Bill Maher, primarily focusing on two fallacies: composition and division. Many tangents result!

    http://schoolsucksproject.com/171-lo...or-bill-maher/

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Danan View Post
    I don't believe there are more Randians today than decades ago. That cult appears to be intellectually bankrupt.

    Ayn Rand hated libertarians. It's not surprising Maher doesn't know anything about all of this, given that he most likely obtains his information from leftwing sources who notoriously have no idea about anything.
    I am not a fan of Ayn or Objectivism. And Maher is just trying to lump everyone who doesn't agree with massive socialism into one group.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingRobbStark View Post
    Wait wait wait. Ryan is a libertarian?
    Ryan, Hannity, Levin and other neo-conservatives occasionally talk about their love of Ayn Rand. That's where ignoramuses like Maher get their generalizations.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    snip

    Bill Maher is a raging ignoramus
    That's really all that needs to be said.
    "The Patriarch"



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Damn Stoplights! What a waste of gasoline. Speed up, hit the brakes, idle, repeat, ad nauseum. The fewer the better.
    True. They're also a big part of the intersection accident stats.

    http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/roundabouts/
    Roundabouts


    Roundabouts are circular intersections. Roundabouts reduce traffic conflicts (for example, left turns) that are frequent causes of crashes at traditional intersections. Unlike a traffic circle or a rotary, a roundabout's incoming traffic yields to the circulating traffic.

    Roundabouts: A Safer Choice

    http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersect...s/fhwasa08006/
    Compared to other types of intersections, roundabouts have demonstrated safety and other benefits.
    Roundabouts:

    • Improve safety
      • More than 90% reduction in fatalities*
      • 76% reduction in injuries**
      • 35% reduction in all crashes**
      • Slower speeds are generally safer for pedestrians



    • Reduce congestion
      • Efficient during both peak hours and other times
      • Typically less delay

    • Reduce pollution and fuel use
      • Fewer stops and hard accelerations, less time idling

    • Save money
      • Often no signal equipment to install, power, and maintain
      • Smaller roundabouts may require less right-of-way than traditional intersections
      • Often less pavement needed

    • Complement other common community values
      • Quieter operation
      • Functional and aesthetically pleasing

    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    True. They're also a big part of the intersection accident stats.

    http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/roundabouts/
    Roundabouts


    Roundabouts are circular intersections. Roundabouts reduce traffic conflicts (for example, left turns) that are frequent causes of crashes at traditional intersections. Unlike a traffic circle or a rotary, a roundabout's incoming traffic yields to the circulating traffic.

    Roundabouts: A Safer Choice

    http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersect...s/fhwasa08006/
    Compared to other types of intersections, roundabouts have demonstrated safety and other benefits.
    Roundabouts:

    • Improve safety
      • More than 90% reduction in fatalities*
      • 76% reduction in injuries**
      • 35% reduction in all crashes**
      • Slower speeds are generally safer for pedestrians



    • Reduce congestion
      • Efficient during both peak hours and other times
      • Typically less delay

    • Reduce pollution and fuel use
      • Fewer stops and hard accelerations, less time idling

    • Save money
      • Often no signal equipment to install, power, and maintain
      • Smaller roundabouts may require less right-of-way than traditional intersections
      • Often less pavement needed

    • Complement other common community values
      • Quieter operation
      • Functional and aesthetically pleasing



    That's interesting.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    True. They're also a big part of the intersection accident stats.

    http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/roundabouts/
    Roundabouts


    Roundabouts are circular intersections. Roundabouts reduce traffic conflicts (for example, left turns) that are frequent causes of crashes at traditional intersections. Unlike a traffic circle or a rotary, a roundabout's incoming traffic yields to the circulating traffic.

    Roundabouts: A Safer Choice

    http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersect...s/fhwasa08006/
    Compared to other types of intersections, roundabouts have demonstrated safety and other benefits.
    Roundabouts:

    • Improve safety
      • More than 90% reduction in fatalities*
      • 76% reduction in injuries**
      • 35% reduction in all crashes**
      • Slower speeds are generally safer for pedestrians



    • Reduce congestion
      • Efficient during both peak hours and other times
      • Typically less delay

    • Reduce pollution and fuel use
      • Fewer stops and hard accelerations, less time idling

    • Save money
      • Often no signal equipment to install, power, and maintain
      • Smaller roundabouts may require less right-of-way than traditional intersections
      • Often less pavement needed

    • Complement other common community values
      • Quieter operation
      • Functional and aesthetically pleasing

    Yep, that's good for smaller intersections. Cloverleafs and ramps for Expressways.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by mac_hine View Post
    Nick Gillespie is no Tom Woods or Stefan Molyneux, but he does do a good job here.

    Wow he shut them down pretty easily. Makes it all the more interesting to think if it were Stefan or Tom.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by mac_hine View Post
    Nick Gillespie is no Tom Woods or Stefan Molyneux, but he does do a good job here.

    I was only able to make it to the 3:30 mark before I couldn't bear listening to that mealy-mouthed SOB any longer.

    All that effort just to pass off Eric Holder and the Fast & Furious mess as a mere "no big deal" policy failure.

    Anyone care to bet that Maher's take on it would have been rather different if this had happened under a Republican administration?

    Bill Maher has just just joined Bill O'Reilly & Lawrence O'Donnell on the list of people to whom I will in the future not waste so much as a single second of time listening or watching.
    The Bastiat Collection ˇ FREE PDF ˇ FREE EPUB ˇ PAPER
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    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
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    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

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  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by KingRobbStark View Post
    Wait wait wait. Ryan is a libertarian?
    Heck yeah. He runs 10Ks and listens to heavy metal on the latest consumer electronic devices. Definitely libertarian. He even made up his own budget.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    Wow he shut them down pretty easily. Makes it all the more interesting to think if it were Stefan or Tom.
    Good lord Molyneux would have Bill Maher in tears in 5 minutes.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by economics102 View Post
    TLDR: Maher is lamenting the fact that libertarianism today doesn't mean what he incorrectly thought it meant 20 years ago.

    Seems to me you've got liberals and conservatives alike who each want libertarianism to become an inconsistent set of unprincipled political positions (like modern-day liberalism and conservatism), as opposed to a single, consistent, pure idea called "liberty."

    Well, they can all go $#@! themselves, because unfortunately for them our ideology actually has its core principle embedded in the name itself, so it's a little harder to distort
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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