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  1. #1

    In a moronic rant, Bill Maher trashes libertarians, dumb enough to include Paul Ryan

    http://ww w.me dia ite.com/tv/bill-maher-tears-into-libertarians-movement-went-nuts-intellectually-stuck-in-their-teen-years/



    Bill Maher ended his show tonight by railing against a political movement he has aligned himself with in the past: libertarianism. He slammed the current wave of libertarians, among them Paul Ryan and Rand Paul, for having a “creepy obsession” with free markets, Ayn Rand, and government staying out of the way. He made it clear that he has not abandoned the libertarianism altogether, saying, “I didn’t go nuts, this movement did.”

    Maher complained that the current crop of libertarians are “ruining libertarianism,” saying there’s a difference between holding that political philosophy and being a “selfish prick.” Maher admitted that he has expressed support in the past for a lot of what libertarians have to say, but along the way he noticed it evolved into a “creepy obsession with free market capitalism.”

    Maher specifically brought up libertarian worship of Ayn Rand, whom he argued only sounds good when you’re a teenager but actually lacks any real substance. He declared that libertarians like Ryan and Paul who subscribe to this line of thinking are “intellectually stuck in their teenage years.”

    Maher admitted that he still agrees with a lot of what libertarians have to say, but considers the movement to have basically gone “nuts,” always complaining about the nanny state and free market as if the government has no role in setting basic societal restrictions, even in the case of helping out with natural disasters.

    He concluded that libertarians may hate Medicare and Social Security, but “it beats stepping over lepers and watching human skeletons $#@! in the river and I also like not seeing those things. I’m selfish that way!”



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  3. #2
    I saw this tonight. It's funny how he said that he was a libertarian and now feels the libertarian movement has gotten too hardcore. Apparently, he doesn't remember Harry Browne or Ron Paul back when Ron Paul was the Libertarian nominee in '88.

    It's also ridiculous that he doesn't get that economic freedom and personal freedom make you a libertarian. Someone how stealing money by force and redistributing it is very noble.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by misean View Post
    Apparently, he doesn't remember Harry Browne or Ron Paul back when Ron Paul was the Libertarian nominee in '88.
    I very seriously doubt Maher has any clue who Harry Browne is.

    And if he thinks Rand Paul (let alone Paul Ryan) is a scion of Ayn Rand, then he has a badly-warped to non-existent understanding of any of those people.

    He's just spewing the same spittle that every smug, hateful and self-righteous $#@! spouts when he encounters people who have the temerity to reject his self-congratulatory & holier-than-thou pronouncements

    Bill Maher is a raging ignoramus who just made himself look like a demented, babbling fool to anyone who has the even the slightest clue about libertarianism.

    Haters gonna hate ...
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I very seriously doubt Maher has any clue who Harry Browne is.

    And if he thinks Rand Paul (let alone Paul Ryan) is a scion of Ayn Rand, then he has a badly-warped to non-existent understanding of any of those people.

    He's just spewing the same spittle that every smug, hateful and self-righteous $#@! spouts when he encounters people who have the temerity to reject his self-congratulatory & holier-than-thou pronouncements

    Bill Maher is a raging ignoramus who just made himself look like a demented, babbling fool to anyone who has the even the slightest clue about libertarianism.

    Haters gonna hate ...
    I don't think it can be summed up any better than this. Brilliant.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    snip

    Bill Maher is a raging ignoramus
    That's really all that needs to be said.
    "The Patriarch"

  7. #6
    This guy is a complete moron.

  8. #7
    Maher is basically the poseur socialist version of O'Reily. He's done one or two good monologues, but otherwise I don't care for him. His idea of humor (most of the time) is just stringing together a bunch of expletives and insults delivered in a snide, snarky manner. :P

    I don't know how he got so far. His old standup routines are incredibly unfunny and frankly boring.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 04-05-2013 at 11:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #8
    It would be interesting to see him invite some libertarian-thinkers like tom woods or even an anarcho-capitalist like Stefan Molyneux onto his show and see how well he fares debating them.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    It would be interesting to see him invite some libertarian-thinkers like tom woods or even an anarcho-capitalist like Stefan Molyneux onto his show and see how well he fares debating them.
    They would intellectually destroy him.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    It would be interesting to see him invite some libertarian-thinkers like tom woods or even an anarcho-capitalist like Stefan Molyneux onto his show and see how well he fares debating them.
    Nick Gillespie is no Tom Woods or Stefan Molyneux, but he does do a good job here.

    Last edited by mac_hine; 04-06-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mac_hine View Post
    Nick Gillespie is no Tom Woods or Stefan Molyneux, but he does do a good job here.

    Wow he shut them down pretty easily. Makes it all the more interesting to think if it were Stefan or Tom.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    Wow he shut them down pretty easily. Makes it all the more interesting to think if it were Stefan or Tom.
    Good lord Molyneux would have Bill Maher in tears in 5 minutes.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mac_hine View Post
    Nick Gillespie is no Tom Woods or Stefan Molyneux, but he does do a good job here.

    I was only able to make it to the 3:30 mark before I couldn't bear listening to that mealy-mouthed SOB any longer.

    All that effort just to pass off Eric Holder and the Fast & Furious mess as a mere "no big deal" policy failure.

    Anyone care to bet that Maher's take on it would have been rather different if this had happened under a Republican administration?

    Bill Maher has just just joined Bill O'Reilly & Lawrence O'Donnell on the list of people to whom I will in the future not waste so much as a single second of time listening or watching.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  16. #14
    I never realized libertarians have been fierce advocates for abolishing stoplights, Bill Maher sure is insightful.
    Last edited by T.hill; 04-06-2013 at 12:15 AM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    I never realized libertarians have been fierce advocates for abolishing stoplights, Bill Maher sure is insightful.
    Yeah, the libertarians who deal with roads and highways like myself propose replacing stoplights with roundabouts and other rational solutions. Stoplights are wasteful and time consuming, like every public works program.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yeah, the libertarians who deal with roads and highways like myself propose replacing stoplights with roundabouts and other rational solutions. Stoplights are wasteful and time consuming, like every public works program.
    Well, if there are practical reasons for replacing them with some alternative, then so be it. Yet, I'm not vehemently opposed to local municipalities and state governments being involved in that.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    I never realized libertarians have been fierce advocates for abolishing stoplights, Bill Maher sure is insightful.
    I've argued with some libertarians here who have said that stop lights should be abolished as well as all speed limits.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I've argued with some libertarians here who have said that stop lights should be abolished as well as all speed limits.
    Well, I support privatization of roads but I expect the free market to end up with rules like this on its own. I don't take the position that just because the state illegitimately owns the roads that they necessarily should have no rules reggarding their use. That said, I think speed limits are mostly bullcrap anyway, especially considering how they arbitrarily don't enforce them unless its 10 or more over. And what speed is safe to drive depends on other factors such as how good a driver you are, how the traffic is flowing, exc. At the very least I don't think they should exist on highways. Germany's autobahn does this and has a low accident rate. I can see a place for them on local roads, but I can't imagine them surviving on highways in the free market.

    Traffic lights, on the other hand, are at least actually a concrete rule. As I said, the roads should be privatized, but traffic lights are probably a good idea. And at least actually enforcible, there's no gray area there, either you crossed it or you didn't.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I've argued with some libertarians here who have said that stop lights should be abolished as well as all speed limits.

    These things should happen and we all really care about them, but... we don't really care about them.

    Our government is so massive, so aggressive, and so wasteful, that simply making it more transparent, ending the wars, restoring privacy and cutting out corporate graft would make things exponentially better for the mass of us and alleviate all of the most dire/pressing concerns.

    We don't even need to talk about seat belts, or heroin, or speed limits, or child porn. Compared to wars, debt, and a unitary executive branch, they just don't matter.
    Last edited by KingNothing; 04-06-2013 at 02:34 PM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    These things should happen and we all really care about them, but... we don't really care about them.

    Our government is so massive, so aggressive, and so wasteful, that simply making it more transparent, ending the wars, restoring privacy and cutting out corporate graft would make things exponentially better for the mass of us and alleviate all of the most dire/pressing concerns.

    We don't even need to talk about seat belts, or heroin, or speed limits, or child porn. Compared to wars, debt, and a unitary executive branch, they just don't matter.
    Indeed. Issues like speed limits, pr0n, etc are just details that we discuss because they have to be dealt with at some point in transitioning from tyranny to liberty. Plus, the questions about these things are always going to come up when persuading statists. Walter Block has done us all a great favor by dealing with things like drunk driving and private roads. Hopefully, the ground he and other libertarians have laid will be the basis for moving the debate towards maximizing liberty and away from whether the D or R flavor of fascism is better.

    ETA: this nuance of debating issues in order to find a route to maximize liberty is very foreign to the modern Left and Right alike, so we're probably going to be dealing with stereotypes about libertarians for at least a generation or 2.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 04-06-2013 at 02:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yeah, the libertarians who deal with roads and highways like myself propose replacing stoplights with roundabouts and other rational solutions. Stoplights are wasteful and time consuming, like every public works program.
    Damn Stoplights! What a waste of gasoline. Speed up, hit the brakes, idle, repeat, ad nauseum. The fewer the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    This rant is so transparent.

    Rand and "libertarians" are actually talking about issues that matter to the left, such as the drone strikes, decriminalizing marijuana, path to citizenship, etc and that's bad news for Democrats and the false left/right paradigm. Maher's rant is pure damage control when you consider Rand's upward polling lately. Slam the ideology before it picks up too much steam with Maher's own viewer base, Democrats. Can't have those folks viewing Rand positively...
    Thread winner. That's the real agenda.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    These things should happen and we all really care about them, but... we don't really care about them.

    Our government is so massive, so aggressive, and so wasteful, that simply making it more transparent, ending the wars, restoring privacy and cutting out corporate graft would make things exponentially better for the mass of us and alleviate all of the most dire/pressing concerns.

    We don't even need to talk about seat belts, or heroin, or speed limits, or child porn. Compared to wars, debt, and a unitary executive branch, they just don't matter.
    This is generally my focus, but other things need to known for when they ask, "But who will build the roads?" and all those dumb questions. Also, I definitely put the drug war as one of this country's huge issues.

  26. #23
    Wait wait wait. Ryan is a libertarian?
    "Corruptisima republica plurimae leges."

    ---- Tacitus

    I love von Mises and Emma Watson

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KingRobbStark View Post
    Wait wait wait. Ryan is a libertarian?
    I don't even view Ayn Rand's philosophy consistent with liberty.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    I don't even view Ayn Rand's philosophy consistent with liberty.
    Yeah, it's a shame libertarian's are stereotyped as followers of Randian objectivism. Libertarian's might agree with some of her theories and admire her as a philosopher, but i'd say many are not objectivists themselves. At least I'm not anyway.
    Last edited by T.hill; 04-06-2013 at 12:31 AM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    Yeah, it's a shame libertarian's are stereotyped as followers of Randian objectivism. Libertarian's might agree with some of her theories and admire her as a philosopher, but i'd say many are not objectivists themselves. At least I'm not anyway.
    Ron critiqued both Ayn Rand and Rothbard in The Revolution. Also, according to Ron Paul, being pro-life is necessary to defend liberty:

    Being Pro Life Is Necessary To Defend Liberty
    "Pro-life libertarians have a vital task to perform: to persuade the many abortion-supporting libertarians of the contradiction between abortion and individual liberty; and, to sever the mistaken connection in many minds between individual freedom and the "right" to extinguish individual life.

    Libertarians have a moral vision of a society that is just, because individuals are free. This vision is the only reason for libertarianism to exist. It offers an alternative to the forms of political thought that uphold the power of the State, or of persons within a society, to violate the freedom of others. If it loses that vision, then libertarianism becomes merely another ideology whose policies are oppressive, rather than liberating.

    We expect most people to be inconsistent, because their beliefs are founded on false principles or on principles that are not clearly stated and understood. They cannot apply their beliefs consistently without contradictions becoming glaringly apparent. Thus, there are both liberals and conservatives who support conscription of young people, the redistribution of wealth, and the power of the majority to impose its will on the individual.

    A libertarian's support for abortion is not merely a minor misapplication of principle, as if one held an incorrect belief about the Austrian theory of the business cycle. The issue of abortion is fundamental, and therefore an incorrect view of the issue strikes at the very foundations of all beliefs.

    Libertarians believe, along with the Founding Fathers, that every individual has inalienable rights, among which are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Neither the State, nor any other person, can violate those rights without committing an injustice. But, just as important as the power claimed by the State to decide what rights we have, is the power to decide which of us has rights.

    Today, we are seeing a piecemeal destruction of individual freedom. And in abortion, the statists have found a most effective method of obliterating freedom: obliterating the individual. Abortion on demand is the ultimate State tyranny; the State simply declares that certain classes of human beings are not persons, and therefore not entitled to the protection of the law. The State protects the "right" of some people to kill others, just as the courts protected the "property rights" of slave masters in their slaves. Moreover, by this method the State achieves a goal common to all totalitarian regimes: it sets us against each other, so that our energies are spent in the struggle between State-created classes, rather than in freeing all individuals from the State. Unlike Nazi Germany, which forcibly sent millions to the gas chambers (as well as forcing abortion and sterilization upon many more), the new regime has enlisted the assistance of millions of people to act as its agents in carrying out a program of mass murder.

    The more one strives for the consistent application of an incorrect principle, the more horrendous the results. Thus, a wrong-headed libertarian is potentially very dangerous. Libertarians who act on a wrong premise seem to be too often willing to accept the inhuman conclusions of an argument, rather than question their premises.

    A case in point is a young libertarian leader I have heard about. He supports the "right" of a woman to remove an unwanted child from her body (i.e., her property) by killing and then expelling him or her. Therefore, he has consistently concluded, any property owner has the right to kill anyone on his property, for any reason.

    Such conclusions should make libertarians question the premises from which they are drawn.

    We must promote a consistent vision of liberty because freedom is whole and cannot be alienated, although it can be abridged by the unjust action of the State or those who are powerful enough to obtain their own demands. Our lives, also, are a whole from the beginning at fertilization until death. To deny any part of liberty, or to deny liberty to any particular class of individuals, diminishes the freedom of all. For libertarians to support such an abridgement of the right to live free is unconscionable.

    I encourage all pro-life libertarians to become involved in debating the issues and educating the public; whether or not freedom is defended across the board, or is allowed to be further eroded without consistent defenders, may depend on them."

    ================================================== ============================ http://www.l4l.org/library/bepro-rp.html

  31. #27
    Why can't the guy admit he's not a libertarian, but a hedonistic socialist?

    If anything, libertarianism has been corrupted by conservatism, thanks to Ron Paul. Libertarians would have never been pro-life, pro-compromising on retaining social security for massive budget cuts and stuff of the like. The libertarian of today really is where regular non-Rockefeller conservatives were in the 60s, minus the saber rattling. There's absolutely nothing Randian about it.

    I don't think the teenage version of me would have even liked Ron Paul, because it was him who brought me to conservative understandings of social issues later in life.
    Last edited by abacabb; 04-06-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by abacabb View Post
    Why can't the guy admit he's not a libertarian, but a hedonistic socialist?

    If anything, libertarianism has been corrupted by conservatism, thanks to Ron Paul. Libertarians would have never been pro-life, pro-compromising on retaining social security for massive budget cuts and stuff of the like. The libertarian of today really is where regular non-Rockefeller conservatives were in the 60s, minus the saber rattling. There's absolutely nothing Randian about it.

    I don't think the teenage version of me would have even liked Ron Paul, because it was me who brought me to conservative understandings of social issues later in life.
    I agree with you 100% And would add Ron Paul brought Liberalism to the Republican party, in the definitive sense. Freedom + self-reliance.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    Yeah, it's a shame libertarian's are stereotyped as followers of Randian objectivism. Libertarian's might agree with some of her theories and admire her as a philosopher, but i'd say many are not objectivists themselves. At least I'm not anyway.
    I don't believe there are more Randians today than decades ago. That cult appears to be intellectually bankrupt.

    Ayn Rand hated libertarians. It's not surprising Maher doesn't know anything about all of this, given that he most likely obtains his information from leftwing sources who notoriously have no idea about anything.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Danan View Post
    I don't believe there are more Randians today than decades ago. That cult appears to be intellectually bankrupt.

    Ayn Rand hated libertarians. It's not surprising Maher doesn't know anything about all of this, given that he most likely obtains his information from leftwing sources who notoriously have no idea about anything.
    I am not a fan of Ayn or Objectivism. And Maher is just trying to lump everyone who doesn't agree with massive socialism into one group.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingRobbStark View Post
    Wait wait wait. Ryan is a libertarian?
    Ryan, Hannity, Levin and other neo-conservatives occasionally talk about their love of Ayn Rand. That's where ignoramuses like Maher get their generalizations.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

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