Venezuela VP: Hugo Chavez has died

[gwax23]

Discussing Chavez, his failures and accomplishments, does not equate to anyone saying they would like a similar government.

Since you speak with such authority, perhaps you can tell us about life before Chavez and what occurred that led to Chavez coming to power.

Just because things where bad before does not excuse him in anyway. You can say the same about any dictator, stalin, fidel, hitler, mao what difference does it make if things where worse before them they are still dictators who destroy freedoms wether in the name of the common good, national interests or whatever.

I care more about what happens in the U.S. than in Venezuela. And Chavez helped the people of the U.S. by blocking efforts to create a "European Union" of the Americas. Ask yourself this question. Would you really want to be saddled with Mexico and Venezuela the way Great Britain is saddled with Greece?

So we have to thank this guy for stopping a supposed EU from forming? I stress Supposed cause I dont see any hard evidence it was imminent. The EU doesnt include Switzerland and Norway among other EU countries. This American Union could of formed without him. Lets not give this guy anymore credit.

Butthurt much. Can you not deal with another countries affairs being different from your own? I must admit he has helped his people economically in the short term. I don't think anyone is actually going to defend him. I think in the least we can extend condolences on behalf of his death. I can say myself I'm sorry to see him pass and that may Venzuela pick up and move on. Speaking ill of the dead unless in the face of ton of bodies or corruption I would resent.

People are making all sort of excuses on this forum for this guy. The economic benefits everyone here is attributing to Chavez would of happened with him in or out of office. Nothing to do with him or his policies and more with the oil. If anything more economic growth would of happened had he not been in office and a free market minded individual was.

But yes hes was great a hero lets white wash him and rewrite history, anything to stress the fact we arent neocons even if it goes against everything we stand for.

[Fox McCloud]

Good riddance; he was a dictator and a tyrant, hopefully his passing will allow for a more freedom oriented leader.

[juleswin]

Gotta love people on the site talking trash Chavez. Oh he killed people, oh he took other people's property, oh he is a socialist etc etc. I hope you guys will say the same thing when say a Rand Paul/Amash or Mike Lee becomes president and the killing of people(wars), taking of properties(taxes) and the socialism(medicare and SS) in the country doesn't immediately end.

A wise man once said, if you are going in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. The man greatly improved the country and for the most part he stopped the thieving of the country's national resources by foreign corporations and if that makes him a monster then so be it.

[talkingpointes]

Gotta love people on the site talking trash Chavez. Oh he killed people, oh he took other people's property, oh he is a socialist etc etc. I hope you guys will say the same thing when say a Rand Paul/Amash or Mike Lee becomes president and the killing of people(wars), taking of properties(taxes) and the socialism(medicare and SS) in the country doesn't immediately end.

A wise man once said, if you are going in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. The man greatly improved the country and for the most part he stopped the thieving of the country's national resources by foreign corporations and if that makes him a monster then so be it.

Oh wait, you're trying to tell us you want to what -- suck this mans .... Can you believe the attitudes prevalent sometimes? I guess were just sheeple and he's waking us up to the evil Chavez.

[Fox McCloud]

Gotta love people on the site talking trash Chavez. Oh he killed people, oh he took other people's property, oh he is a socialist etc etc. I hope you guys will say the same thing when say a Rand Paul/Amash or Mike Lee becomes president and the killing of people(wars), taking of properties(taxes) and the socialism(medicare and SS) in the country doesn't immediately end.

A wise man once said, if you are going in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. The man greatly improved the country and for the most part he stopped the thieving of the country's national resources by foreign corporations and if that makes him a monster then so be it.

There's a sharp difference between being unable to end something (but working strongly towards it) and implementing policies or encouraging them, yourself. Nationalizing oil companies, banks, etc is hardly praiseworthy.

Likewise, I don't think anyone here who is criticizing Chavez is someone doing so because they think their own country/leaders/politicians are "good"--they're just pointing out that he's not worthy of an ounce of praise.

[qh4dotcom]

[HOLLYWOOD]

You know it doesn't matter whether it's a Democracy, Parliamentary, Communistic, Fascist, whatever... evidence is there, that pretty much all governments are corrupt & evil... it's only the relative degree of intensity/severity that differs them. Man the corruption of the local government down the street is ramped, imagine when you get to the Billion & Trillion dollar levels.

Hugo is just another imperial victim, like the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko in London by Russian agents. Chavez was assassinated in slow motion, most likely by the CIA, since their track record is there throughout history/world, plus they had missed their "mark" twice before in Venezuela.

It doesn't take much for the US agents to bribe conscripts/mercenaries with US taxpayer monies to do their dirty work, since most all is done by proxy these days. Many here have already posted about Hugo was a US target, especially when there's oil/minerals/natural resources involved.

Most know, US embassies & US consulates are just espionage and covert operations centers for the DEA, FBI, CIA, DIA, DOD, etc...

Watch carefully down the road... if there are 'loose strings' tied to Chavez's assassination, they'll most likely be found dead floating in a river, burned in a car, shot in their home, or hanging in the tool shed out back... loose strings are almost the first thing to go after the objective has been met.

PS: I'm still searching for those innocent civilians Chavez killed in; Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Somalia, Djibouti, Sudan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Mali, Palestine, Nigeria... how many countries did Hugo bomb... on and on.

[qh4dotcom]

https://www.facebook.com/wayne.a.root

"Hugo Chavez is dead. Amassed $2 BB fortune. Just like Obama, all marxists are frauds and hypocrites. They hate the wealthy and hate money- except for themselves:"
- Wayne Allyn Root

[misean]

Gotta love people on the site talking trash Chavez. Oh he killed people, oh he took other people's property, oh he is a socialist etc etc. I hope you guys will say the same thing when say a Rand Paul/Amash or Mike Lee becomes president and the killing of people(wars), taking of properties(taxes) and the socialism(medicare and SS) in the country doesn't immediately end.

A wise man once said, if you are going in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. The man greatly improved the country and for the most part he stopped the thieving of the country's national resources by foreign corporations and if that makes him a monster then so be it.

Good point. The comparison to Rand Paul is very accurate. Taxes are very much the same as communism. In fact, don't kid yourself. Chavez might be better than Rand Paul. I believe Chavez used to carry around a dog eared copy of Road to Serfdom.

[kcchiefs6465]

You know it doesn't matter whether it's a Democracy, Parliamentary, Communistic, Fascist, whatever... evidence is there, that pretty much all governments are corrupt & evil... it's only the relative degree of intensity/severity that differs them. Man the corruption of the local government down the street is ramped, imagine when you get to the Billion & Trillion dollar levels.

Hugo is just another imperial victim, like the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko in London by Russian agents. Chavez was assassinated in slow motion, most likely by the CIA, since their track record is there throughout history/world, plus they had missed their "mark" twice before in Venezuela.

It doesn't take much for the US agents to bribe conscripts/mercenaries with US taxpayer monies to do their dirty work, since most all is done by proxy these days. Many here have already posted about Hugo was a US target, especially when there's oil/minerals/natural resources involved.

Most know, US embassies & US consulates are just espionage and covert operations centers for the DEA, FBI, CIA, DIA, DOD, etc...

Watch carefully down the road... if there are 'loose strings' tied to Chavez's assassination, they'll most likely be found dead floating in a river, burned in a car, shot in their home, or hanging in the tool shed out back... loose strings are almost the first thing to go after the objective has been met.

PS: I'm still searching for those innocent civilians Chavez killed in; Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Somalia, Djibouti, Sudan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Mali, Palestine, Nigeria... on and on.

QFT. Plus rep. I've read a little about the CIA backed attempted coups of Venezuela and Chavez's kidnapping but not much. If you have any sources or aspects that you think are especially needed to understand the situation, I'd greatly appreciate them. That might just be what my night is. [refreshing my mind] Great post. Your foreign policy expertise is very hard to be matched.

[Danan]

A wise man once said, if you are going in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. The man greatly improved the country and for the most part he stopped the thieving of the country's national resources by foreign corporations and if that makes him a monster then so be it.

A country shouldn't own resources. People should own resources. He took away resources from people and gave it to the government. He was a socialist and like all socialists he was bad. There is no way the world is worse off without him.

[juleswin]

Good point. The comparison to Rand Paul is very accurate. Taxes are very much the same as communism. In fact, don't kid yourself. Chavez might be better than Rand Paul. I believe Chavez used to carry around a dog eared copy of Road to Serfdom.

You're funny but seriously. It is a matter of degree and intentions matters. I believe Chavez really wanted to improve the lives of Venezuelans but was greatly misinformed on how to do that, so in some ways he is similar to Rand.

[Danan]

There's a sharp difference between being unable to end something (but working strongly towards it) and implementing policies or encouraging them, yourself. Nationalizing oil companies, banks, etc is hardly praiseworthy.

Likewise, I don't think anyone here who is criticizing Chavez is someone doing so because they think their own country/leaders/politicians are "good"--they're just pointing out that he's not worthy of an ounce of praise.

^^ this.

[angelatc]

What forum am I on? $#@!ing statists.

He didnt help them he took away there freedoms and forced collectivization on them for "the common good"

get off these forums if your going to spew the propaganda of a dead dictator.

I guess it's ok to seize private property if you're doing it to help people?

[Danan]

You're funny but seriously. It is a matter of degree and intentions matters. I believe Chavez really wanted to improve the lives of Venezuelans but was greatly misinformed on how to do that

So did Hitler and Stalin. They truly and honestly believed they were making things better. Both were evil assclowns with terrible political philosophies though.

I'm not saying Chavez was as bad as Stalin, but at least domestically he was worse than any US president ever was. Get a little perspective people, that guy was a damn full-out socialist who took away private property on a massive scale. If people on this forum don't see that as inherently evil than there is really no hope.

[juleswin]

A country shouldn't own resources. People should own resources. He took away resources from people and gave it to the government. He was a socialist and like all socialists he was bad. There is no way the world is worse off without him.

And people shouldn't be paying taxes but under the best scenario we are still going to be paying taxes and govt will continue to own lands(national parks). So yes, Chavez did not renew the lease to the oil companies and if that is what you consider to be "taking" resources then he took resources.

There is no way the world is worse off without him.

I will disagree, you know what is worse than a socialist? a corporatism and that is what we have in Obama

[Feeding the Abscess]

And people shouldn't be paying taxes but under the best scenario we are still going to be paying taxes and govt will continue to own lands(national parks). So yes, Chavez did not renew the lease to the oil companies and if that is what you consider to be "taking" resources then he took resources.



I will disagree, you know what is worse than a socialist? a corporatism and that is what we have in Obama

Obama's not worse than Chavez. And it's not even close.

[Danan]

I will disagree, you know what is worse than a socialist? a corporatism and that is what we have in Obama

So people in the US are worse off than people in Venezuela? You know why corporatism is so "successful"? Because what's left of capitalism is so strong and powerful to keep people in relative prosperity, so that they don't question the government sucking away their wealth. Socialism is inherently doomed to fail and does that every time it's tried.

[juleswin]

So did Hitler and Stalin. They truly and honestly believed they were making things better. Both were evil assclowns with terrible political philosophies though.

I'm not saying Chavez was as bad as Stalin, but at least domestically he was worse than any US president ever was. Get a little perspective people, that guy was a damn full-out socialist who took away private property on a massive scale. If people on this forum don't see that as inherently evil than there is really no hope.

I dunno man, I see Chavez as a Kucinich type, someone who will propose lowering the retirement age to reduce unemployment because he doesnt know any better. This type of politician wouldn't purposely hurt someone or invade a country to achieve that goal unlike Stalin. That is the difference between Obama/Bush types and Kucinich/Chavez types.

Obama is really an evil person, I dont for a second think he actually believes that selling out the american people to the insurance companies or using depleted uranium on Iraqis or say funding the Syrian terrorist or paying of his fake industry or the dozens of other evil policies he supports is good for anyone. In that case, intentions are not everything but is factored when judging their actions

[ninepointfive]

i bet obama would be worse should he be allowed free reign

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Cuba: best healthcare in the world according to Michael Moore.

[juleswin]

So people in the US are worse off than people in Venezuela? You know why corporatism is so "successful"? Because what's left of capitalism is so strong and powerful to keep people in relative prosperity, so that they don't question the government sucking away their wealth. Socialism is inherently doomed to fail and does that every time it's tried.

I bet you a $1m on this but give Venezuela the world reserve currency and then take it away from the US, keep everything else the same and I promise you, Venezuelans will be enjoying a higher standard of living than Americans in 10 yrs. I also wonder if the American welfare infrastructure(read socialist) is bigger than Venezuelans

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Gotta love people on the site talking trash Chavez. Oh he killed people, oh he took other people's property, oh he is a socialist etc etc. I hope you guys will say the same thing when say a Rand Paul/Amash or Mike Lee becomes president and the killing of people(wars), taking of properties(taxes) and the socialism(medicare and SS) in the country doesn't immediately end.

A wise man once said, if you are going in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. The man greatly improved the country and for the most part he stopped the thieving of the country's national resources by foreign corporations and if that makes him a monster then so be it.

In your praising of this man, allow me to complement you as I now have a new found appreciation for Castro, who said the blessed end justifies any cruel means to achieve it, Adolph Hitler, who killed Jews, and Joseph Stalin, who tried to kill just about everyone. I do appreciate your open mindedness, but now isn't the time for such progressive thinking. Understand that we just feel that you are being ill mannered in your zeal as you are violating normal etiquette that sets ten years as the proper passing of time before any undoing should be taken regarding the unjustifiable demonizing of a monster . . . ahem.

[juleswin]

Cuba: best healthcare in the world according to Michael Moore.

I like that because we all know its is an indictment on a medical system if they cannot sure someone from cancer, yes I know they couldn't beat a simple cancer. Pss, Edward Kennedy also died from cancer in our wonderful medical system.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

i bet obama would be worse should he be allowed free reign

How dare you diss His golden voice! Why, just a few precious drops of his spittle can cause a field of corn to grow hundreds of feet high! Praise our rock star president! Praise all those weirdos standing behind him as the foundation of his Feeblelosity. Look, I'm starting to dance! Why, I am Hillary Boy! Hillary for 2016!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Pss, Edward Kennedy also died from cancer in our wonderful medical system.

Kennedy was also 20 years older.

[juleswin]

Obama's not worse than Chavez. And it's not even close.

I think he is worse than Chavez on all fronts but we wouldn't know that because one has the world reserve currency to work with and a military to twist a lot of country's arms.

For the record, I am not saying Chavez is an angel but I don't think he is a devil either. He is Dennis Kucinich as president, a man who I wouldn't wanna see become president but a man I will take over Obama or Romney any day. Also, I dont support socialism but I think there are worse political systems before anyone start to think I worship Chavez.

[juleswin]

Kennedy was also 20 years older.

So? you mean they would have definitely cured him if he was 20 yrs younger? The point is that he had fricken cancer and cancer is no cake walk even for the best medical system in the world (US not Cuba).

[Danan]

I bet you a $1m on this but give Venezuela the world reserve currency and then take it away from the US, keep everything else the same and I promise you, Venezuelans will be enjoying a higher standard of living than Americans in 10 yrs. I also wonder if the American welfare infrastructure(read socialist) is bigger than Venezuelans

It is bigger because what is left of the free market is able to fund government in the US. Also I believe you are wrong on the reserve currency. Austria or Switzerland or New Zealand do not have a world reserve currency and are better off than all the self-proclaimed socialist countries on the planet. US citizens are richer than Venezuela's because they are way more productive.

[juleswin]

It is bigger because what is left of the free market is able to fund government in the US. Also I believe you are wrong on the reserve currency. Austria or Switzerland or New Zealand do not have a world reserve currency and are better off than all the self-proclaimed socialist countries on the planet. US citizens are richer than Venezuela's because they are way more productive.

But having the world reserve currency sure makes it easier to produce a higher standard of living than without it. Also culture matter, work ethics, language and lost of other things matter. Also the countries you mentioned all have significant amount of socialist policies. Australia has I think a $15 minimum wage and a very robust welfare system but they are prosperous in spite of it