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Thread: Spain attacks democracy, Dark Rumblings Of A Coup D’État In Spain

  1. #1

    Spain attacks democracy, Dark Rumblings Of A Coup D’État In Spain

    Somehow I doubt the American Empire will insist on and get involved in helping Catalonia in their right to self-determination like it does the terrorists in MENA. If anything, Obama will send in the drones to put an end to their "secessionist offensive."

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/03/s...democracy.html

    Italy and Greece have already flirted with post-democracy, now it is Spain's turn to do the same. It's informative to see how the various governments facing secession movements appear to take them considerably more seriously than those who can't see past the status quo, so seriously that they're even willing to throw democracy and self-determination overboard if need be:

    The Spanish government has launched a legal challenge against Catalonia’s recent “declaration of sovereignty”, in the latest move by Madrid to halt the region’s march towards independence.

    The government said it would ask Spain’s constitutional court to nullify the Catalan parliament’s January declaration, which stated that the “people of Catalonia have, for reasons of democratic legitimacy, the nature of a sovereign political and legal subject”.

    The resolution is intended to pave the way for a regional referendum on independence, and reflects the recent surge in separatist sentiment in Spain’s most important economic region.
    It's a little amusing to see journalists raise the indebted state of the regions seeking secession and sovereignty as if it is an anti-secessionary pressure. The reality is that debt is an excellent reason to secede, as a sovereign can borrow more easily and default at will.
    Dark Rumblings Of A Coup D’État In Spain
    http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...C3%A9tat-spain

    Spain is on edge. Unemployment is nearly 26%, youth unemployment over 55%. The government is mired in a corruption scandal. The economy is grinding to a halt. On January 23, the Catalan assembly declared that the region constituted a “sovereign political and legal entity.” A step closer to secession. And then a general gave a speech.
    [...]
    There was nothing unusual until General Chicharro spoke. From the outset, he made clear that this wasn’t an impromptu speech. According to various attendees, he apologized; he would have declined the invitation to speak, he said, but the current “separatist-secessionist offensive” in Catalonia obligated him to come forward.

    In the armed forces, “there is a general feeling of preoccupation, fear, uncertainty, and confusion” on this topic, he said. He lamented the dismissal of General José Mena in 2006 after he’d publicly suggested that military intervention might be needed to counter Catalonia’s demands for increased autonomy.

    He criticized Catalan separatists for their distorted interpretation of the Constitution with regards to secession and offered his own interpretation of two articles: Article 8.1, which charged the Armed Forces with defending Spain and its territorial integrity; and Article 97, which spelled out the subordination of the military to the civilian government. The first was at the hard core of the Constitution, he said. The second was further removed, with less force.

    And so, while using conditionals and turning statements into questions, he spun a theory on when the military would be justified in overthrowing the government. The problem would occur, he said, “if those responsible for the defense of the Constitution didn’t behave as their role required.”

    He asked his listeners to imagine what would happen if the Popular Party (PP) were to lose its absolute majority in the next general elections, and the Catalan nationalists were to demand, in exchange for their support, a change of the Constitution to undo the doctrine of the “indissoluble unity” of Spain.

    “So what do the Armed Forces do?” he wondered, but gave no answer. “The rules are one thing, practice is another,” he said enigmatically. “If the defense mechanism of the constitutional order doesn’t work, by act or omission, then....” He didn’t complete the sentence. “The country is more important than democracy,” he said. “Patriotism is a feeling, and the Constitution is nothing but a law.”
    [...]
    Perhaps warned by the general, the government is taking the hardest possible line against Catalonia’s ambitions to secede. On Thursday, the State Council issued an opinion indicating that there were sufficient legal grounds to dispute the declaration by the Catalan assembly. On Friday, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy announced that the government would roll out its biggest legal gun. It would take the declaration to the Constitutional Court on the grounds that it violated the Constitution.

    The economic nightmare with too many out-of-work restless young people on the streets, the secession of a region, a constitutional crisis in the wings, and dark rumblings by generals combine into a volatile mix. What had started out as a housing bubble that turned into a debt crisis then a broad economic crisis has morphed beyond the economy. It’s gnawing on democracy.

    And not just in Spain. But the Eurozone. “I’m appalled that two clowns have won,” said the man who'd try to knock German Chancellor Merkel off her perch this year. He was referring to former comedian Beppe Grillo and former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. One of them is “a professional clown who doesn’t mind being called that,” he explained; the other is “a clown with special testosterone boost.” Read.... The Utter Fragility Of The Eurozone: Even Democracy Is A Threat
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  3. #2
    THis is very interesting. Secession movements across Europe gaining prominence.

  4. #3
    There is a lot of crazy stuff going on in Europe that seems to be a bit underreported.

    This guy Beppe Grillo, who I keep being told is a practicing comedian turned politician, won 24% of the vote in Italy. I saw this picture of him on Farcebook.



    Now maybe he's in costume for something or mocking something (I don't read/writes/speak Italian), but I was a bit...."uhhhh'd" at that picture.

    Then I read the link below over at The American Thinker.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...cist_bomb.html

    n the terrible economic crisis of 1922 Benito Mussolini got 25% of the vote in Italy. Two years later he had more than a majority.
    You know the rest.
    In the economic crisis of 2013, Beppe Grillo received 24% of the vote (see last week's analysis of Grillo's political beliefs). This week he blocked a government from forming. Grillo now controls the Senate, but he is going for a majority in both houses in the upcoming vote in June.
    That's in Italy, but in Greece the Golden Dawn party is following the same path. So is the new Hungarian fascist resurgence. In Germany it's called the "Pirate Party."
    Europe's political class is shocked and panicked. They are pretending Grillo is just a "populist" and a "reformer" -- but he also wants to "process" all the Jews in the world, who are responsible for all the evil. Grillo wants to nationalize the banks and abolish interest rates, "just like the Islamic Development Bank."


    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2MVEnOoxJ
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
    Now, I do not pretend to know a lick about Italian politics, and obviously this guy is knocking over Apple carts of the European Union people, but if that article is to be believed, it's pretty disturbing.

    There was a famous line in the modern adaptation of the series Battlestar Galactica repeated several times through the series. "All this has happened before. All this will happen again."
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  5. #4
    History Repeats itself. When will those europeans ever learn.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    History Repeats itself. When will those europeans ever learn.
    Off topic.

    You're an Israeli, right? Will you go out in public and burn a US flag, so Rand Paul can call for an end of foreign aid to Israel? Do it for liberty?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Off topic.

    You're an Israeli, right? Will you go out in public and burn a US flag, so Rand Paul can call for an end of foreign aid to Israel? Do it for liberty?
    HAH. First im not Israeli but nice try. Second while Im in favor of ending all Foreign aid despite the fact that you seem solely focused on Israel, the way to achieve that is not through further demonizing Israel as you seem to advocate tirelessly on these forums.

    Also just to put this out there Israel stopped receiving Economic Assistance from the US in 2007 and since 2004 it has not even been the largest recipient of US Foreign Aid. 74% of the assistance through U.S. Foreign Military Financing (FMF) must be spent on the acquisition of US defense equipment, services, and training. Thus, United States military aid to Israel is seen as a subsidy for U.S. industries. The Remained of Aid comes in the form of Guaranteed Loans that israel has never used but people like to pretend that the guaranteed loans is money coming into Israel on a yearly basis when in actuality its the same money thats been set aside should Israel ever need it, for the past 10 years or so. Israel also only started receiving foreign aid from the US in 1970 and it only started to instead following the yom kippur war as part of the US backed treaty where Israel had to return the Sinai and its oil to Egypt.

  8. #7
    That's bull$#@!. I'm an equal opportunity foreign aid hater. But Israel is the largest recipient of aid for a country the US isn't bombing. And don't give me this $#@! that since a large portion of it has to be spent on the MIC that taxpayers in the US are any better off. Israel still gets armed to the teeth at US tax slave expense.

    If I post more about Israel than I do on Arab countries it's because I'm opposed to the empire--which has been taking out secular gov'ts one after another and installing religious extremists. Why? To keep those countries divided, the easier to dominate them. This has been disaster not only for Christians and other minority groups but for humanity in general. So forgive me if I don't focus on them as much. Meanwhile, Israel, an apartheid state actively working to cleanse its lands of Arabs, the maintainer of the largest concentration camp the world has ever seen, gets a free pass from the media, is lied about in public schools, and controls US foreign policy. Why would any liberty lover not want to focus on them?
    Last edited by green73; 03-04-2013 at 05:21 PM.

  9. #8
    Spain -> Italy -> European union - > Israel.


    what?
    "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else"

    - Claude Frédéric Bastiat



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by enter`name`here View Post
    Spain -> Italy -> European union - > Israel.


    what?
    lololol, you know where it's headed....
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    There is a lot of crazy stuff going on in Europe that seems to be a bit underreported.

    This guy Beppe Grillo, who I keep being told is a practicing comedian turned politician, won 24% of the vote in Italy. I saw this picture of him on Farcebook.



    Now maybe he's in costume for something or mocking something (I don't read/writes/speak Italian), but I was a bit...."uhhhh'd" at that picture.

    Then I read the link below over at The American Thinker.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...cist_bomb.html



    Now, I do not pretend to know a lick about Italian politics, and obviously this guy is knocking over Apple carts of the European Union people, but if that article is to be believed, it's pretty disturbing.

    There was a famous line in the modern adaptation of the series Battlestar Galactica repeated several times through the series. "All this has happened before. All this will happen again."
    Grillo is far from a fascist. He's made some offensive comments, but then so has Berlusconi. Italian attitudes towards Mussolini and race are rather different to those in the US. Grillo's certainly an far left winger, but he has a couple of good ideas. The German Pirate Party aren't fascists either, they are a mix of progressives and left-anarchists.

    Here are some of Grillo's policies:

    Abolition of electoral refunds
    Amalgamation of municipalities under 5,000 residents
    Compulsory teaching of and examinations on the Constitution for all public representatives
    Two term limit for each public representatives
    Abolition of privileges for public representatives (for example: pension after only two years)
    Prohibit parliamentarians from working in other professions during their terms
    Salary of parliamentarians aligned to the average salary
    Prevention of overlapping of offices for MPs (for example, one could not be both a mayor and an MP)
    Ineligibility of convicted criminals for public office
    Direct participation in any public meeting by citizens via the web
    Last edited by compromise; 03-04-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by enter`name`here View Post
    Spain -> Italy -> European union - > Israel.


    what?
    SOP for RPFs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Then I read the link below over at The American Thinker.

    n the terrible economic crisis of 1922 Benito Mussolini got 25% of the vote in Italy. Two years later he had more than a majority.
    You know the rest.
    In the economic crisis of 2013, Beppe Grillo received 24% of the vote (see last week's analysis of Grillo's political beliefs). This week he blocked a government from forming. Grillo now controls the Senate, but he is going for a majority in both houses in the upcoming vote in June.
    That's in Italy, but in Greece the Golden Dawn party is following the same path. So is the new Hungarian fascist resurgence. In Germany it's called the "Pirate Party."
    Europe's political class is shocked and panicked. They are pretending Grillo is just a "populist" and a "reformer" -- but he also wants to "process" all the Jews in the world, who are responsible for all the evil. Grillo wants to nationalize the banks and abolish interest rates, "just like the Islamic Development Bank."
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...cist_bomb.html


    This article is extremely misinformed. The Pirate Party is Germany is nowhere near being anything remotely fascist. They're about individual privacy, particularly with regards to electronic data, as well as government transparency and direct democracy via e-referendum.

  15. #13
    The Greek party Golden Dawn is for now the only political party that is truly insane and if they were to get to power they would certainly start a regional war.The only hope being that the left is so strong in Greece that they would most likely start a civil war before either side could take control.

    The EU made their own bed,they thought they could buy social peace forever but now it is time to harvest what they have sown.If one region in the EU successfully separates from its current country than there would be storm of secessions from Baskia,Transilvania,Catalonia,Scotland to Northern Italy and Belgium falling apart.
    Last edited by Demigod; 03-04-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  16. #14
    Hey! I qualified it with "off topic". Settle down.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Then I read the link below over at The American Thinker.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...cist_bomb.html

    That piece at American Thinker is pure garbage. The tip-off is that they named the Pirate Party as a fascist party - it is of course an anti-fascist anti-copyright tyranny movement, not a fascist party at all. The people who wrote that piece clearly pulled the whole thing out of their ass.

    Grillo, likewise, is protesting fascism, not endorsing it.

  18. #16
    I'm glad to see that Catalonia is trying to secede, I just hope they learned from their past mistakes and choose a more capitalist approach than communist.

    (Doubt it)
    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% [the same on issues]." Ron Paul



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    That's bull$#@!. I'm an equal opportunity foreign aid hater. But Israel is the largest recipient of aid for a country the US isn't bombing. And don't give me this $#@! that since a large portion of it has to be spent on the MIC that taxpayers in the US are any better off. Israel still gets armed to the teeth at US tax slave expense.

    If I post more about Israel than I do on Arab countries it's because I'm opposed to the empire--which has been taking out secular gov'ts one after another and installing religious extremists. Why? To keep those countries divided, the easier to dominate them. This has been disaster not only for Christians and other minority groups but for humanity in general. So forgive me if I don't focus on them as much. Meanwhile, Israel, an apartheid state actively working to cleanse its lands of Arabs, the maintainer of the largest concentration camp the world has ever seen, gets a free pass from the media, is lied about in public schools, and controls US foreign policy. Why would any liberty lover not want to focus on them?
    Did I say taxpayers are any better off? I posted simple facts that are commonly overlooked by the people who are obsessed with Israel.

    The second half of your post you show your bias that you claim you dont have. Arabic is a co official language, arabs serve on the supreme court, knesset (Parliament), have there own political parties, serve in the cabinet as ministers, in the army as generals. Arabs in Israel have more rights, freedoms, and opportunities than in any other Arab country or even majority Muslim country. Freedom of religion, press, speech, freedom to own property, equal rights for women, and gays. Free access to all holy sites, the list goes on. Poll after poll after poll shows the vast majority of Israeli arabs would prefer to remain in Israeli jurisdiction than Palestinian or another arab states jurisdiction. I suggest you go and look up what Apartheid in South Africa looked like before you throw the word around.

    Now Genocidal Concentration camps? Please your claims grow more ridiculous with each post. Any facts or figures where these camps are? Numbers that have died? Im very interested in your sources on this if you have any.

    Finally your claim that the media is bias to Israel? Only Fox news in the US could fall into that category. If youve ever traveled abroad, every single countries media from Europe to Latin America is extremely biased towards Israel. Im sick of hearing the media is bias to Israel because unless all you watch is Fox than yes maybe its Bias but every other major international news outlet is bias against Israel.

    Your biased plain and simple. Ive seen you in thread after thread (Many of them you started) single out and attack Israel. You can claim you also are against foreign aid to other countries but so far youve done a terrible job as showing it.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    Did I say taxpayers are any better off? I posted simple facts that are commonly overlooked by the people who are obsessed with Israel.

    The second half of your post you show your bias that you claim you dont have. Arabic is a co official language, arabs serve on the supreme court, knesset (Parliament), have there own political parties, serve in the cabinet as ministers, in the army as generals. Arabs in Israel have more rights, freedoms, and opportunities than in any other Arab country or even majority Muslim country. Freedom of religion, press, speech, freedom to own property, equal rights for women, and gays. Free access to all holy sites, the list goes on. Poll after poll after poll shows the vast majority of Israeli arabs would prefer to remain in Israeli jurisdiction than Palestinian or another arab states jurisdiction. I suggest you go and look up what Apartheid in South Africa looked like before you throw the word around.

    Now Genocidal Concentration camps? Please your claims grow more ridiculous with each post. Any facts or figures where these camps are? Numbers that have died? Im very interested in your sources on this if you have any.

    Finally your claim that the media is bias to Israel? Only Fox news in the US could fall into that category. If youve ever traveled abroad, every single countries media from Europe to Latin America is extremely biased towards Israel. Im sick of hearing the media is bias to Israel because unless all you watch is Fox than yes maybe its Bias but every other major international news outlet is bias against Israel.

    Your biased plain and simple. Ive seen you in thread after thread (Many of them you started) single out and attack Israel. You can claim you also are against foreign aid to other countries but so far youve done a terrible job as showing it.
    You call me obsessed with Israel, but really I am just antiwar, and you can't talk about foreign policy and not the elephant in the room that is Israel. As for me not ever posting on other countries that receive foreign aid that is simply not true. Why only today I posted on the thread about aid to Egypt, highlighting that the US already gives them $2B/year.

    Did I say genocidal concentration camps? No. I speak of course of Gaza, were people can stand on their rooftops and stare at the sea but aren't allowed to go set foot in it. It's funny how you try to make like they have all this freedom. A more honest person, a libertarian, would concede the evil that is done to them. You never do that.

    You call me ridiculous, and then you say that only Fox News is bias for Israel. You obviously know little about US media and the corporations who own them. As for Europe, you're wrong. In the UK alone the media are hugely bias for Israel. I see the same out of the continent. See John Pilger's documentary: The War You Don't See. I believe you about Latin America. The thing is public option there doesn't matter, doesn't get reported to most of the rest of the world.

    Why don't you, when you have some time, watch this video. He is the son of a famous Israeli General. He cuts through the bull$#@! and provides a history of the problem that most Israelis don't even know.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
    Last edited by green73; 03-04-2013 at 07:12 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    You call me obsessed with Israel, but really I am just antiwar, and you can't talk about foreign policy and not the elephant in the room that is Israel. As for me not ever posting on other countries that receive foreign aid that is simply not true. Why only today I posted on the thread about aid to Egypt, highlighting that the US already gives them $2B/year.

    Did I say genocidal concentration camps? No. I speak of course of Gaza, were people can stand on their rooftops and stare at the sea but aren't allowed to go set foot in it. It's funny how you try to make like they have all this freedom. A more honest person, a libertarian, would concede the evil that is done to them. You never do that.

    You call me ridiculous, and then you say that only Fox News is bias for Israel. You obviously know little about US media and the corporations who own them. As for Europe, you're wrong. In the UK alone the media are hugely bias for Israel. I see the same out of the continent. See John Pilger's documentary: The War You Don't See. I believe you about Latin America. The thing is public option there doesn't matter, doesn't get reported to most of the rest of the world.

    Why don't you, when you have some time, watch this video. He is the son of a famous Israeli General. He cuts through the bull$#@! and provides a history of the problem that most Israelis don't even know.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
    I do concede that the situation in gaza is not perfect but it is usually exaggerated, way too much blame is put on Israel and little on hamas and its actions and how Hamas themselves are to blame for the majority of the Palestinian peoples suffering. Palestinian leadership is as corrupt as it gets.

    I also made it clear Im against all foreign aid but im also against hypocrisy and bias against Israel which I see a lot of on this forum.

    Im sorry but your dead wrong when you say the UKs media is bias towards Israel. Any BBC or Sky report on israel is incredibly bias. Europe as a whole is very anti israel. Even Anti Israel crowd admit that and hence why they focus only on US Media bias because they know in Europe the bias is for the Arab side of the conflict.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    I do concede that the situation in gaza is not perfect but it is usually exaggerated, way too much blame is put on Israel and little on hamas and its actions and how Hamas themselves are to blame for the majority of the Palestinian peoples suffering. Palestinian leadership is as corrupt as it gets.

    I also made it clear Im against all foreign aid but im also against hypocrisy and bias against Israel which I see a lot of on this forum.

    Im sorry but your dead wrong when you say the UKs media is bias towards Israel. Any BBC or Sky report on israel is incredibly bias. Europe as a whole is very anti israel. Even Anti Israel crowd admit that and hence why they focus only on US Media bias because they know in Europe the bias is for the Arab side of the conflict.
    Watch that documentary by John Pilger. The BBC, ITV, Channel 4, they just are mouthpieces for the government, which--HELLOOOO--is pro Israel. Same for the continent.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    I do concede that the situation in gaza is not perfect but it is usually exaggerated, way too much blame is put on Israel and little on hamas and its actions and how Hamas themselves are to blame for the majority of the Palestinian peoples suffering. Palestinian leadership is as corrupt as it gets.

    I also made it clear Im against all foreign aid but im also against hypocrisy and bias against Israel which I see a lot of on this forum.

    Im sorry but your dead wrong when you say the UKs media is bias towards Israel. Any BBC or Sky report on israel is incredibly bias. Europe as a whole is very anti israel. Even Anti Israel crowd admit that and hence why they focus only on US Media bias because they know in Europe the bias is for the Arab side of the conflict.

    Flat-out that is just pretty heartless
    Start here since you obviously have no family from there or truly understand the stagnation on part of the Palistinians. They may as well just walk away before they are all dead.

    Our great friend pretends like the UN doesn't exist whenever it maneuvers against them, and that is when they are not trying to sway the rest of the world.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cerning_Israel
    Last edited by talkingpointes; 03-04-2013 at 10:39 PM.

  25. #22
    The fact that the UN focuses more on Israel then any other country says more about the UN and its bias than Israel. The UN is a corrupt and ineffective organization.

    I love how on RPF people will attack the UN vehemently until it comes to Israel. When Israel and the UN is brought up suddenly everyone's on the side of the world government agency. Its pure hypocrisy and this singling out of Israel as if its special is ridiculous.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    I do concede that the situation in gaza is not perfect but it is usually exaggerated, way too much blame is put on Israel and little on hamas and its actions and how Hamas themselves are to blame for the majority of the Palestinian peoples suffering. Palestinian leadership is as corrupt as it gets.

    I also made it clear Im against all foreign aid but im also against hypocrisy and bias against Israel which I see a lot of on this forum.

    Im sorry but your dead wrong when you say the UKs media is bias towards Israel. Any BBC or Sky report on israel is incredibly bias. Europe as a whole is very anti israel. Even Anti Israel crowd admit that and hence why they focus only on US Media bias because they know in Europe the bias is for the Arab side of the conflict.
    BBC is pro-Arab, but Sky is pro-Israel.

    BBC isn't really a mouthpiece for the government, it's just government funded. It generally has a liberal bias, even though the Conservatives are in government.
    Last edited by compromise; 03-05-2013 at 08:39 AM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Watch that documentary by John Pilger. The BBC, ITV, Channel 4, they just are mouthpieces for the government, which--HELLOOOO--is pro Israel. Same for the continent.
    I can't think of a single European (or Latin American) news outlet that has an anti-Israel bias, don't think that are any that are even neutral, espciecally in the UK and Germany. Not even AlJazeera has a true anti-Israel bias.
    Last edited by TokenLibertarianGuy; 03-05-2013 at 09:17 AM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by compromise View Post
    BBC is pro-Arab, but Sky is pro-Israel.

    BBC isn't really a mouthpiece for the government, it's just government funded. It generally has a liberal bias, even though the Conservatives are in government.
    BBC is certainly not pro-Arab. They're not as blatantly pro-Israel as Murdoch(Fox) owned Sky, but they're definitely in the "Israel is a western democracy who are just trying to survive anti-Semitism and Muslim terrorism as peacefully as possible" camp.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    The fact that the UN focuses more on Israel then any other country says more about the UN and its bias than Israel. The UN is a corrupt and ineffective organization.

    I love how on RPF people will attack the UN vehemently until it comes to Israel. When Israel and the UN is brought up suddenly everyone's on the side of the world government agency. Its pure hypocrisy and this singling out of Israel as if its special is ridiculous.
    Both the UN and Israel (as a Zionist, racist, apartheid state) suck. Neither would exist in a (more) perfect world.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TokenLibertarianGuy View Post
    BBC is certainly not pro-Arab. They're not as blatantly pro-Israel as Murdoch(Fox) owned Sky, but they're definitely in the "Israel is a western democracy who are just trying to survive anti-Semitism and Muslim terrorism as peacefully as possible" camp.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20461914
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20466027
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...inian_conflict
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...s-support.html
    http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourking...d-palestinians
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...eral-bias.html (by Daniel Hannan)

    66-68% of Brits view Israel negatively, so this reflects popular opinion:
    http://21stcenturysocialism.com/arti...ael_02051.html
    http://globescan.com/images/images/p...l%20080512.pdf
    Last edited by compromise; 03-05-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  32. #28
    How the $#@! do you take a goddamn thread about Spain and civil war and turn it into yet another goddamn argument about the Jews. There are 500 million threads already you could post in, and if you don't want to bump something you could wait 30 $#@!ing seconds.

    Seriously,

    Slutter McGee

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Slutter McGee View Post
    How the $#@! do you take a goddamn thread about Spain and civil war and turn it into yet another goddamn argument about the Jews. There are 500 million threads already you could post in, and if you don't want to bump something you could wait 30 $#@!ing seconds.

    Seriously,

    Slutter McGee
    You mad bro?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Slutter McGee View Post
    How the $#@! do you take a goddamn thread about Spain and civil war and turn it into yet another goddamn argument about the Jews. There are 500 million threads already you could post in, and if you don't want to bump something you could wait 30 $#@!ing seconds.

    Seriously,

    Slutter McGee
    I don't see any mention of Jews in this thread.

    Judaism ≠ Zionism.
    Israel ≠ Judaism.
    Anti-Israel ≠ Anti-Jewish.

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