Need Bitcoins? This ATM takes dollars and funds your account

[green73]

NASHUA, N.H. -- Zach Harvey has an ambitious plan to accelerate adoption of the Internet's favorite alternative currency: installing in thousands of bars, restaurants, and grocery stores ATMs that will let you buy Bitcoins anonymously.

It's the opposite of a traditional automated teller that dispenses currency. Instead, these Bitcoin ATMs will accept dollar bills -- using the same validation mechanism as vending machines -- and instantly convert the amount to Bitcoins and deposit the result in your account.

"It's even easier than just using a regular ATM," says Harvey, 33, who demonstrated the device to CNET this weekend at the Free State Project's annual Liberty Forum. "You could probably do it in about five seconds. The thing that would take the longest would be the bill validator taking in the dollar."

cont
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...-your-account/

[sailingaway]

Why? I mean bitcoins have no more intrinsic value than FRNs and aren't backed by a government either.

I simply don't get them.

[cheapseats]

Why? I mean bitcoins have no more intrinsic value than FRNs and aren't backed by a government either.

I simply don't get them.

Moreover, IF Government/TPTB can interrupt-unto-shut-down the internet, they still have control. If anything, exchanging tangible fiat for electronic fiat seems like moving in the wrong direction. OBVIOUSLY, someone is quite willing to take those "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes off our hands AND/OR out of circulation.

[hazek]

Why? I mean bitcoins have no more intrinsic value than FRNs and aren't backed by a government either.

I simply don't get them.

Read this and you just might get it: Wrapping your head around Bitcoin (a guide ~5min reading time)

[sailingaway]

Read this and you just might get it: Wrapping your head around Bitcoin (a guide ~5min reading time)

I only had to start, I disagree right from 'why do you use it'. FRNs are backed by government and force of law and won't run off to the Bahamas tomorrow, quite as likely, from my perspective. It isn't what I want, but when I think of what I want, it has true intrinsic value, not just 'habit' behind it, we have that, already.

[dannno]

I only had to start, I disagree right from 'why do you use it'. FRNs are backed by government and force of law and won't run off to the Bahamas tomorrow, quite as likely, from my perspective. It isn't what I want, but when I think of what I want, it has true intrinsic value, not just 'habit' behind it, we have that, already.

You should finish reading the link, nobody can run off to the bahamas with your bitcoins. I'm pretty sure it also says exactly what you said. The people who made bitcoin understand economics like we do.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Why? I mean bitcoins have no more intrinsic value than FRNs and aren't backed by a government either.

I simply don't get them.

The technology represents an easy way to transfer funds across national borders, a process that currently can be slow and cumbersome with wire transfers. Bitcoin is less risky for online sellers than accepting credit cards, which can be disputed by customers. While not truly anonymous, it can be relatively private -- and is far more difficult for the U.S. or other governments to trace.
Unlike modern currency, which can be brought into existence at the whim of politicians or a central bank, leading to each note being devalued, the number of Bitcoins is governed by predictable mathematical algorithms. That's made Bitcoin popular among libertarians and other activists skeptical of the Federal Reserve; the Free State Project accepts payment for its summer festival in Bitcoins, for instance.

-t

[hazek]

Well, being forced to use it is part of it, there are 50% of Americans who pay no taxes, I wonder who forces them to use dollars. And if you aren't going to invest even 5min to read the whole thing, even if you don't agree with the very first part, don't waste my time next time. You asked to have Bitcoin explained, reading that will do it for ya. Now go read it or just throw your hands in the air, proclaim it's irrationality and stop polluting threads about it and wasting everyone's time.

[sailingaway]

I didn't ask to have it explained, I asked why we should prefer it, and it built on the previous point, which I disagreed with. If it doesn't have intrinsic value, I don't see it being preferable, and see it as less reliable than govt backed FRNs. Why not have something with intrinsic value?

It seems like they are free to those who create them out of nothing, but they want value for them. Sounds like the Fed, right there.

[hazek]

It seems like they are free to those who create them out of nothing

They are?! Well then, why don't you issue some and exchange them for dollars and get super rich????

[sailingaway]

They are?! Well then, why don't you issue some and exchange them for dollars and get super rich????

because I don't have the tech ability, am not part of that group, and it feels like a pyramid scheme, intentional or not. Getting rich dishonestly doesn't appeal to me.

and there is such a thing as intrinsic value. If no one 'backed' it, a house, bowl, chocolate, horse would be worth something to others who needed one.

[hazek]

because I don't have the tech ability, am not part of that group, and it feels like a pyramid scheme, intentional or not. Getting rich dishonestly doesn't appeal to me.

GTFO. Bwahahahahaaha. Ok.

[sailingaway]

GTFO. Bwahahahahaaha. Ok.

Is that supposed to mean something? Because I don't get it.

--
edit, ok I read your link. You have to solve a math problem to get a bit coin. I see that might be interesting in something like sonic, but don't see why anyone should give you a horse or chocolate because you solved a math problem. what good does it do them?

[hazek]

There is no such thing as intrinsic value - all value is inherently subjective. Stop repeating that stupid term like it means something.

[hazek]

You didn't read anything. It's not about solving a math problem, it's about making this technology work. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? I don't mean this as an insult, it's just older people, usually less technologically inclined, have a harder time grasping the concepts within this first of it's kind technology and it becomes a barrier that is usually impossible to overcome. So if you are of that sort I don't want to waste any more of time on something that wont budge no matter what..

[sailingaway]

You didn't read anything. It's not about solving a math problem, it's about making this technology work. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? I don't mean this as an insult, it's just older people, usually less technologically inclined, have a harder time grasping the concepts within this first of it's kind technology and it becomes a barrier that is usually impossible to overcome. So if you are of that sort I don't want to waste any more of time on something that wont budge no matter what..

There is no value and you are spinning jargon. If it makes sense, explain why it should be valuable to someone to get one.

[hazek]

Bitcoin is a brand new technology that gives you the ability to:
- be in full control over your finances at all times
- define how public you want your ID information to be within a transaction
- protect yourself from anyone being able to freeze or seize your money
- receive money without having to pay any fees
- practically eliminate the risk of fraud
- preserve your purchasing power through ensured scarcity of bitcoins
- instantly send any amount to anyone, anywhere, anytime without having to ask for anyone’s permission


You may not see this as valuable, but as you can see, plenty of other people do.

[TheTexan]

There is no value and you are spinning jargon. If it makes sense, explain why it should be valuable to someone to get one.

It has value because people are willing to exchange real goods & services for it. Same with the dollar.

And gold too, for that matter, doesn't have just a whole lot of "value." You can't eat it. You can't build a house with it. There are very narrow industrial uses for it, but primarily it has value because other people give it value.

Gold and bitcoins simply serve different needs that a currency is supposed to fulfill. Gold is great for handling physical real world transactions, whereas bitcoins is better at facilitating digital transactions.

Sure, you can digitize gold into a gold backed currency, but as we all know, you don't own gold until you take possession. So it doesn't work for online transactions. Bitcoins, while its still fairly new, has the potential to do well to fill that gap.

[green73]

Everything You Need to Know about Bitcoins


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euKpYiKs6B8

[TheTexan]

I think this is a great idea. Its always been slightly inconvenient to buy bitcoins (especially anonymously). This would indeed help a great deal with adoption.

[sailingaway]

Why are they valuable? I can see why people would want to be able to print 'money' by solving an equation, but why would anyone want to give you anything for it? It needs to be a market based commodity for value, as I see it, and I just don't understand why there would be a market for this on the other side.



"you have to have something that people seek after and hold" as having value

[hazek]

Why are they valuable? I can see why people would want to be able to print 'money' by solving an equation, but why would anyone want to give you anything for it? It needs to be a market based commodity for value, as I see it, and I just don't understand why there would be a market for this on the other side.

Asked and answered. I'm done.

p.s.: you don't have to change, you can go extinct.

[muh_roads]

They have value because they can't be inflated by governments and purchases can't be traced by governments. They get around government roadblocks that prevent people in other countries from wiring money outward.

[sailingaway]

They have value because they can't be inflated by governments and purchases can't be traced by governments. They get around government roadblocks that prevent people in other countries from wiring money outward.

neither can a random scribble by a two year old, if you require it be of that two year old. But why would anyone want it? Give you something for it?

[muh_roads]

neither can a random scribble by a two year old, if you require it be of that two year old. But why would anyone want it? Give you something for it?

Random scribbles by two year olds are rare and is equivalent to the complex math algorithms found in bitcoin?

wat

[ronpaulfollower999]

As long as there is a buyer and seller, bitcoins will always have some type of value.There is a limited number of bitcoins, like there is a limited amount of gold and silver (until space mining is profitable). There is not a limited amount of US dollars.

I welcome this ATM. Looks about the easiest way yet to buy bitcoins.

[sailingaway]

As long as there is a buyer and seller, bitcoins will always have some type of value.There is a limited number of bitcoins, like there is a limited amount of gold and silver (until space mining is profitable). There is not a limited amount of US dollars.

I welcome this ATM. Looks about the easiest way yet to buy bitcoins.

sure, as long as people will accept them there will be a market. But twenty years from now, what assurance do you have now that people will want them at all? That is where intrinsic value comes in.

However, I was just asking some stuff I wondered about that kept me from being interested, to see if there was an easy answer, and there doesn't seem to be. I have no problem with people using whatever they want to for money if they can find someone to accept it.

[TheTexan]

sure, as long as people will accept them there will be a market. But twenty years from now, what assurance do you have now that people will want them at all? That is where intrinsic value comes in.

Gold has very little intrinsic value, either. For all intents and purposes it has none.

The reason gold has excelled as a currency throughout history, is because it is:
1) durable
2) portable
3) divisible
4) scarce

For thousands of years it has been this way, because gold best meets all of that criteria, and to this day we have not found a better currency for physical trade.

The problem lies however, with #2. Portable. With the invention of the internet, gold is no longer as portable as it needs to be.

There is a proven market need for a strong currency that can be used over the internet, which gold can not fill. That's where bitcoins come in.

While bitcoins do not have the same time-tested history as gold does, bitcoins does fit all 4 of that criteria.

It loses a few points on durability, because it is only durable as long as the internet continues to exist, but otherwise its very durable. If you believe the internet will some day cease to exist, don't buy bitcoins. Gold also has durability issues, (tungsten filled bars), but it still has done well because it is the best currency available for physical trade.

Bitcoins is, for at least the foreseeable future, the best currency available for online trade. Which is why it has value. If at some point a better online currency comes about (and some day it will), bitcoins will not lose their value, but eventually they will be phased out.

[sailingaway]

Gold has very little intrinsic value, either. For all intents and purposes it has none.

The reason gold has excelled as a currency throughout history, is because it is:
1) durable
2) portable
3) divisible
4) scarce

For thousands of years it has been this way, because gold best meets all of that criteria, and to this day we have not found a better currency for physical trade.

The problem lies however, with #2. Portable. With the invention of the internet, gold is no longer as portable as it needs to be.

There is a proven market need for a strong currency that can be used over the internet, which gold can not fill. That's where bitcoins come in.

While bitcoins do not have the same time-tested history as gold does, bitcoins does fit all 4 of that criteria.

It loses a few points on durability, because it is only durable as long as the internet continues to exist, but otherwise its very durable. If you believe the internet will some day cease to exist, don't buy bitcoins. Gold also has durability issues, (tungsten filled bars), but it still has done well because it is the best currency available for physical trade.

Bitcoins is, for at least the foreseeable future, the best currency available for online trade. Which is why it has value. If at some point a better online currency comes about (and some day it will), bitcoins will not lose their value, but eventually they will be phased out.

People like gold, it is pretty, doesn't tarnish and is recognized for thousands of years. People run to it in economic peril. So it has value. a 'bit coin' isn't even something you can hold in your hand, as i understand it.

This is fine if some people want to do it, I just wanted to make sure I asked questions before I decided it wasn't for me.

[well_met_sir]

People like gold, it is pretty, doesn't tarnish and is recognized for thousands of years. People run to it in economic peril. So it has value. a 'bit coin' isn't even something you can hold in your hand, as i understand it.

This is fine if some people want to do it, I just wanted to make sure I asked questions before I decided it wasn't for me.

What do you mean by "people like gold"? That's not a reason for it to be worth $1600/oz.

Gold is pretty, but there are many things that are pretty and they cost less than $1600/oz. Gold bars certainly aren't pretty enough to be worth $1600/oz. Prettiness is not the reason for gold's price.

Gold doesn't tarnish, and perhaps this is a tiny factor in why gold is so valuable. However it doesn't explain much. For one thing, why does silver have value as money? Silver is quick to tarnish. Bitcoins don't tarnish.

"and is recognized for thousands of years" Ahh now we're getting somewhere. Yes, recognition is essential for currency. Gold's long track record is something of value that bitcoin doesn't have yet. So this is a point in favor of gold. However we now have to ask, why did gold get this track record as money? How come other substances didn't? Why isn't bronze money?

The reality is that gold is valuable as currency for these reasons: scarcity, fungibility, convenience (divisibility, portability, etc...). You could say that these features make it intrinsically valuable as currency.

Bitcoin is also scarce, fungible, and convenient. Thus if it can be said that gold has intrinsic value then so does bitcoin. The same basis for gold's value is also the basis for bitcoin's value. Both are naturally money.

"a 'bit coin' isn't even something you can hold in your hand, as i understand it." You can't hold love in your hand either.

Gold and bitcoin are different in terms of convenience (one is better at being used when you don't have access to the internet, the other is easier when you do) and thus they are complements. It makes sense to own and use both.