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Thread: One Bitcoin is now worth more dollars ($29.50) than one troy ounce of silver ($29.44)

  1. #1

    Default One Bitcoin is now worth more dollars ($29.50) than one troy ounce of silver ($29.44)

    We'll use this thread to track the spot price. Also here is a fun fact...

    This is how things have been going...Consider this trend, with checkpoints every 5 months:


    A Bitcoin has never been worth less than...

    Feb-2011 $0.50
    Jul-2011 (5 months later) $1
    Dec-2011 (5 months later) $2
    May-2012 (5 months later) $4
    Oct-2012 (5 months later) $8
    Feb-2013 (3 months later) $29 (Bubble that will dip back to $16 possibly?)
    Last edited by Paladin69; 02-19-2013 at 03:45 PM.



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  3. #2

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    holy crap - how did they value so high since Oct?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninepointfive View Post
    holy crap - how did they value so high since Oct?
    - Iran citizens discovering them to get around sanctions.
    - Wordpress accepting them
    - Reddit accepting them

    Many other stories out there I'm sure...

    It's growing. It is a real economy.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin69 View Post
    - Iran citizens discovering them to get around sanctions.
    This isn't going to end well.
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  6. #5
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    Wasn't there a reverse split of coins, or stopping of minting them...I thought something happened that ended up goosing the price.
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  7. #6

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    Does anybody watch the Kroll Show on Comedy Central? It's ok, but I've noticed some sublte propaganda - I haven't figured out if they are making fun of government propaganda or if they are an arm for it - but they seemed to be making fun of people who bought bit coins a couple episodes back - in TWO different skits.

    Also funny that Kroll is a multinational corporation involved in private security/intelligence and appears to have helped carry out the 9/11 attacks.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-19-2013 at 03:46 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Wasn't there a reverse split of coins, or stopping of minting them...I thought something happened that ended up goosing the price.
    Halving day happened in October or November. Only 3600 coins can be mined per day now instead of 7200.

    Mining is not an industry I would suggest. The future of that is unknown in terms of profitability. Many proponents of Bitcoin don't suggest mining because the more that get involved, the less there is. Miners getting involved is increasing quite fast. it's a completely different industry within Bitcoin separate from the economy itself.
    Last edited by Paladin69; 02-19-2013 at 03:50 PM.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    This isn't going to end well.
    With not much governments can do about it. Just like they could never stop bit torrent.

  10. #9

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Wasn't there a reverse split of coins, or stopping of minting them...I thought something happened that ended up goosing the price.
    Yes, the reward for validating the transactions aka mining reward has been halved for the fist time from the initial 50BTC per validated block to 25BTC per validated block meaning that on average instead of 7200BTC per day, there are now only 3600BTC per day being issued. This happened at the end of November and likely took a while to fully translate into a price change due a reduced rate of new supply. And there's a visible growth of the user base and merchant adoption ever sine the also November Wordpress announcement..
    Last edited by hazek; 02-19-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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  12. #11

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    I predict bitcoin will end in pain for most.

    Whoever was in on the ground floor made a killing. I remember bitcoin collapsed to $.01 last year, though I am not sure whether those trades were busted, there was A LOT of them traded down there. If not, whoever bought at .01 is making a killing.
    What I say is for entertainment purposes only!

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  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubical View Post
    I predict bitcoin will end in pain for most.

    Whoever was in on the ground floor made a killing. I remember bitcoin collapsed to $.01 last year, though I am not sure whether those trades were busted, there was A LOT of them traded down there. If not, whoever bought at .01 is making a killing.
    Wow, now I know what I'm going to do with a time machine.. You could have bought $100 worth and now have $290k in bitcoin.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    This isn't going to end well.
    This is why I can't put any money in bitcoins and will still put it in silver instead...

    Bitcoins are too perfect, it's a recipe for disaster... at first the powers that be laughed at the idea it would do anything... now it's becoming a force. There might be a lot of money to be made quick but eventually "they'll" come...

    Iranians trading through it, people getting around gambling laws, use on the black market, etc, etc, etc... at some point the gov't will shut it down and cite some mogus bogus legal tender laws and everyone who pays into it will lose big time as "They" send their message about trying to subvert the corrupt, immoral, and unstable fiat dollar system.

    It lacks the anonymity of gold and silver ownership, and is more likely to be confiscated or destroyed.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  15. #14
    Member Zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Article on Iran and BitCoins from October: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmaton...not-available/


    As Inflation Rages In Iran, Bitcoin Software Not Available

    Hyperinflation has hit Iran hard. The government has stepped up censorship of currency exchange websites such as Mesghal.com and Mazanex.com, which had rates blanked out for the rial’s value against other nations’ currencies on Tuesday. Several major foreign airlines announced that they were discontinuing service into Tehran due to the volatility of the Iranian rial and shipping giant Maersk halted all port calls to Iran.

    If severe currency devaluation and disruptive Internet cyber-attacks were not enough, the regular people of Iran have had access blocked to certain open source software sites for downloading applications such as Bitcoin. The 32-month-old blockade hasn’t been instigated by Iran’s mullahs but by the U.S.-led embargo which prohibits certain persons from receiving services via open source hosting sites.

    The original and ‘reference’ Bitcoin client is hosted in the United States on GeekNet’s SourceForge.net who explained their denial of site access policy on their blog:


    The specific list of sanctions that affect our users concern the transfer and export of certain technology to foreign persons and governments on the sanctions list. This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) sanction list, including Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria, may not post content to, or access content available through, SourceForge.net. Last week, SourceForge.net began automatic blocking of certain IP addresses to enforce those conditions of use.
    Then, after an angry reaction from project administrators and developers, SourceForge removed the blanket blocking and modified their policy to put the power of determining a block trigger in the hands of each project’s leadership, as announced in their February 2010 blog posting:


    Beginning now, every project admin can click on Develop -> Project Admin -> Project Settings to find a new section called Export Control. By default, we’ve ticked the more restrictive setting. If you conclude that your project is *not* subject to export regulations, or any other related prohibitions, you may now tick the other check mark and click Update. After that, all users will be able to download your project files as they did before last month’s change.
    Therefore, the export control determination has to be made by the project’s registered administrator on SourceForge, which for Bitcoin is lead developer Gavin Andresen after assuming the role from Bitcoin creator, Satoshi Nakamoto.

    Export of software from the U.S., including software that deploys encryption functions, is controlled by the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) in accordance with the Export Administration Regulations (EAR).

    Andresen, who is also Chief Scientist for Bitcoin Foundation, stated that Bitcoin compiles against the full OpenSSL library and the wallet encryption feature uses AES-256 which is what places Bitcoin in the above category. The SourceForge option that Bitcoin.org selects to remain in compliance with U.S. law states, “This project incorporates, accesses, calls upon or otherwise uses encryption software with a symmetric key length greater than 64 bits (“encryption”). This review does not include products that use encryption for authentication only.”

    Forget about the mere difficulties of obtaining and trading bitcoin for national fiat currency in Iran — without the client software, they are not even there yet. Other Bitcoin “experts” have alluded to alternative methods of downloading the Bitcoin client such as using non-U.S. independent mirrored sites, Virtual Private Network (VPN) for IP address masking, Tor if your country has an exit node, or BitTorrent file sharing.

    Aside from the inherent weaknesses within the entire SSL infrastructure, other download channels, and even SourceForge itself, present challenges. The initial install code would need to be verified for authenticity and the only way to accomplish that is to have the core developer sign the code personally or have a neutral third-party like the Bitcoin Foundation sign downloadable code with their certificate as a registered developer.

    In extreme circumstances the verified source code can be compiled directly by the user so that downloading binaries is not necessary. Source code can also be distributed in text-based form like a PDF or scanable book which is what MIT did for Phil Zimmermann and later what 70 international volunteers did for the PGPi Scanning Project in 1997. More and more, the Bitcoin Project is starting to look like the Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) secure email program with each passing day.
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  16. #15
    Member Zippyjuan's Avatar
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    From November:
    Dollar-Less Iranians Discover Virtual Currency


    By Max Raskin on November 29, 2012
    Under sanctions imposed by the U.S. and its allies, dollars are hard to come by in Iran. The rial fell from 20,160 against the greenback on the street market in August to 36,500 rials to the dollar in October. Itís settled, for now, around 27,000. The central bankís fixed official rate is 12,260. Yet thereís one currency in Iran that has kept its value and can be used to purchase goods from abroad: bitcoins, the online-only currency.

    Created in 2009 by a mysterious programmer named Satoshi Nakamoto, bitcoins behave a lot like any currency. Their value is determined by demand, and they can be used to buy stuff. Bitcoin transactions are encrypted and handled by a decentralized global network of tens of thousands of personal computers. Merchants around the world accept the currency, from a bakery in San Francisco to a dentist in Finland. Individuals who own bitcoins and wish to exchange them for physical currencies like euros or dollars can use exchange sites such as localbitcoins.com, a Finland-based site founded by Jeremias Kangas. ďI believe that bitcoin is, or will be in the future, a very effective tool for individuals who want to avoid sanctions, currency restrictions, and high inflation in countries such as Iran,Ē Kangas wrote in an e-mail.

    The advantage for Iranians is that bitcoins can be swapped for dollars that can then be kept outside the country. Another plus: Regulators canít easily track the transactions, since bitcoins arenít issued from a central server. Bitcoin users can conduct business on virtual private networks, which hide customersí identities.
    More at link.
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  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    This isn't going to end well.
    Nope. Bitcoin holders are aiding terrorists. Luckily we have drones to take care of those problems.

  18. #17

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    well dang - never invested and could have made a killing.

  19. #18

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin69 View Post
    We'll use this thread to track the spot price. Also here is a fun fact...

    This is how things have been going...Consider this trend, with checkpoints every 5 months:


    A Bitcoin has never been worth less than...

    Feb-2011 $0.50
    Jul-2011 (5 months later) $1
    Dec-2011 (5 months later) $2
    May-2012 (5 months later) $4
    Oct-2012 (5 months later) $8
    Feb-2013 (3 months later) $29 (Bubble that will dip back to $16 possibly?)
    While it did follow a nice doubling trend, there's more factors that are affecting the doubling-time of the exponential curve. As more vendors (internet and IRL) are accepting bitcoin, more people are demanding bitcoin for internet transactions. As the Silk-Road has been going along without many stories of arrest/entrapment, more people are willing to use that service. As the price has grown, more people are demanding it as an investment. As the dollar devalues, more people who can't find gold/silver that they trust demand it for a store of value. As the mining rate dropped, the growth in supply has slowed. As more people keep bitcoin for investment, the supply for currency shrinks. All these signs point to continued increasing growth rates.

    I don't know if there's going to be a massive correction, but I wouldn't be surprised to see faster growth for the next two years as adoption grows. Remember the growth curve of the internet? Bitcoin is at a stage analogous to dialing in manually to a local BBS. There has been no "Bitcoin AOL" yet. There's not a Netscape, there's not a Google.

    There might be a crash at some point, but let's look at what causes crashes. ABCT reduces bubbles to the fact that resources have been massively misallocated. Until we're seeing people take out bank loans of FRNs to speculate on the bitcoin based economy or the number of investment opportunities outpace the growth of users, I don't have any worries about relative stability.

    What do you trust more: open-source, uncrackable cyptography, or the FRN?
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    I may have some bit coins , maybe some Hungarian silver Bellas cut in half , some Spanish Silver Reales, cut....

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubical View Post
    I predict bitcoin will end in pain for most.

    Whoever was in on the ground floor made a killing. I remember bitcoin collapsed to $.01 last year, though I am not sure whether those trades were busted, there was A LOT of them traded down there. If not, whoever bought at .01 is making a killing.
    Yeah but that was in the middle of a market crash. It happens in real life too. Everyone said bitcoin was going to die then, but it didn't It rebounded just like what happens in a real life recession (atleast until the govt gets involved and screws it all up)

  23. #22

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    Bitcoins are an interesting story to follow, and maybe much more.*
    *The price movements/speculation are only part of the story.

    The (not!) crash to 0.01 was from the biggest exchange getting hacked and no real trades were made.
    The crash to $2.00 was real, and the newer up trend is now + ~15x / 1500%

    I missed out and expected it to stay down longer.
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  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubical View Post
    I predict bitcoin will end in pain for most.

    Whoever was in on the ground floor made a killing. I remember bitcoin collapsed to $.01 last year, though I am not sure whether those trades were busted, there was A LOT of them traded down there. If not, whoever bought at .01 is making a killing.
    Get your facts straight please.

    What you are talking about happened in June 2011 when the biggest exchange got hacked and a hacker dumped a bunch of bitcoins from a hacked account on it's market causing the price do drop down to less than a penny. These trades were rolled back by the exchange as they were not real trades and the market never believed the price was less than $0.01 and when the exchange reopened the price was $17 and stay around there for a few more days. Then after that it took half a year until November when Bitcoin was deflating the first bubble for the exchange rate to drop down to just a few cents under $2 and since then it has never been lower than that.

    All of this can be witnessed here:


    You can't even see the hack on this chart because the trades were rolled back, but what you can see is if you look at the bottom just before "Jul" in 2011 you can see a brief period of about 9 days when there is no volume which is the time during which mtgox was closed and after the volume picks up again you can clearly see the price reopen at around $17.

    Link to the chart: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgo...zm1g10zm2g25zv

    Zoomed in when the hack happened, the subsequent downtime, and where the price was at reopening:


    Link to the chart: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgo...zm1g10zm2g25zv
    Last edited by hazek; 02-20-2013 at 06:41 AM.
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  25. #24

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    This bitcoin bubble is pure nonsense. There is no fundamental reason for giving bitcoins any value. This will end in tears. Stay away from bitcoin and invest in real assets with actual economic value (not some made up currency).

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jclay2 View Post
    invest in real assets with actual economic value (not some made up currency).
    Economic value is derived from the various forms of utility received. So.. as long as people have a desire to acquire any type of item, the item has economic value.

    And what currency isn't made up? Someone, at some point, found some gold and said, "Hey let's use this for trade." Governments around the world have just "made up" their currencies. I'm no Bitcoin expert, but from the stories I've read on RPF it appears to be a reasonable asset which is perfectly demonstrating economic principle. The only difference between Bitcoin and silver/gold/etc., is that Bitcoin has apparently created its own scarcity limitations. That is a little bit shady to me, because I think there is too much opportunity to manipulate the currency. At the same time I suppose it's no different than stocks which can be split at any time.
    Last edited by Aeroneous; 02-20-2013 at 08:50 AM.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jclay2 View Post
    There is no fundamental reason for giving bitcoins any value.
    No, you have that wrong. Just because you don't see a reason for giving bitcoins any value doesn't mean other people don't. If you aren't just trolling and are honestly curious why some people clearly do see value in them, may I invite you to read this: Wrapping your head around Bitcoin (a guide ~10min reading time)
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  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by jclay2 View Post
    This bitcoin bubble is pure nonsense. There is no fundamental reason for giving bitcoins any value. This will end in tears. Stay away from bitcoin and invest in real assets with actual economic value (not some made up currency).
    As long as there is a buyer and a seller, bitcoins will always have some type of value. I think the Reddit news was huge, and I wouldn't be surprised to see bitcoin adaption spread like wildfire.
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  29. #28

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    You either do not like free markets or you misunderstand that value is subjective.

    Given the choice between digi dollars backed by a gun (fiat legal tender) and digi dollars backed by a market, I chose the latter every time.

    Market oriented currencies have been around for...I don't know...as long as man?

    Bitcoin is a modernized version of human inginuity. To call it "pure nonsense" is arrogant.

    I do NOT own any Bitcoin. None. Yet I see little reason, save for violence from the government, that Bitcoin will not stick around.

    When a MARKET of individuals chose something (with strong hands, mind you)...it is very difficult to displace this subjective value.

    Quote Originally Posted by jclay2 View Post
    This bitcoin bubble is pure nonsense. There is no fundamental reason for giving bitcoins any value. This will end in tears. Stay away from bitcoin and invest in real assets with actual economic value (not some made up currency).
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  30. #29

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    Further more, annonimity, privacy and convinience ARE commodities of very real value.

    Bitcoin offers this.


    Quote Originally Posted by jclay2 View Post
    This bitcoin bubble is pure nonsense. There is no fundamental reason for giving bitcoins any value. This will end in tears. Stay away from bitcoin and invest in real assets with actual economic value (not some made up currency).
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  31. #30

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    follow the silky brick road

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