Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 56 of 56

Thread: 3-year-old Russian boy killed by American adoptive mother in Texas

  1. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    Russians haven't tried to hide the fact that they're not impressed and haven't been for several years. I think the little boy returned on the plane was a firm smack in the face as far as they were concerned, but it was neither the first nor the last problem. The bottom line is that Americans aren't entitled to Russian kids, and if the Russians do not wish to send them here, they are not in any way obligated.
    Russians can do whatever they want. I'm not looking to adopt a Russian baby so I'm pretty impartial on this one.

    I'm saying its not exactly a trend of American adoptive parents beating to death Russian children. Unless you're reactionary this article shouldn't sway opinion one way or the other.

    I also don't know why I should take the Russian government at face value? How do you know this mother actually killed the child? Does Russian government never lie?
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Russians can do whatever they want. I'm not looking to adopt a Russian baby so I'm pretty impartial on this one.

    I'm saying its not exactly a trend of American adoptive parents beating to death Russian children. Unless you're reactionary this article shouldn't sway opinion one way or the other.

    I also don't know why I should take the Russian government at face value? How do you know this mother actually killed the child? Does Russian government never lie?
    I'm not reactionary. I'm just an adoptee who tries to stay informed on adoption issues. Somewhere here, there's another thread with specific Russian cases cited, but I'll post the most obvious single link, Pound Puppy Legacy. They're pretty good about keeping up on these things.

    http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/46524
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  4. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    I'm not reactionary. I'm just an adoptee who tries to stay informed on adoption issues. Somewhere here, there's another thread with specific Russian cases cited, but I'll post the most obvious single link, Pound Puppy Legacy. They're pretty good about keeping up on these things.

    http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/46524
    How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  5. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...
    Off the top of my head, 60,000. I'm sure google has a better recall than I do. The abuse cases are listed at the link if you are interested in them. The bottom line is that Russia does not owe us children. They don't have to give a reason to end US adoptions. They can do it just on accounta because. Attempting to minimize the death of a child could be a factor in their reasoning. I don't know. I'm not Russian. But it seems to me that if the Russians were attempting to reduce the life of an American child to a statistic, that may offend a few folks in this country.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  6. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mmfmj View Post
    there are plenty of kids that need adopting in the USA.. wtf are people adopting from russia and china for?... no offense for anyone here who adopted russian/chinese children.

    What's the difference? If sane, loving, people want to adopt a child, they deserve all the blessings the universe can bestow.

  7. #36

    Default

    What a sad story. Why do we do this stuff?

  8. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...
    The number 19 dead seems to come to mind. I don't have a cite for you.
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen
    to set brush fires in peoples minds! Revolution is Action upon Revelation!

    The small green parakeet, Tito, was flung helplessly from the cage, landing on the floor. When a girl screamed, the officer sneerd:
    "F*** THE BIRD !!!"
    ...and stomped on it with his jackboot. READ MORE: http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/n...lugo-parakeet/


  9. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...

    One would have to be foolish and heartless to limit the pool of willing parents. The Russians are being evil. They're making the lives of children demonstrably worse by acting to cut off American adoption.

  10. #39
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen
    to set brush fires in peoples minds! Revolution is Action upon Revelation!

    The small green parakeet, Tito, was flung helplessly from the cage, landing on the floor. When a girl screamed, the officer sneerd:
    "F*** THE BIRD !!!"
    ...and stomped on it with his jackboot. READ MORE: http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/n...lugo-parakeet/


  11. #40

    Default

    Compared to America, Russia is a hell hole. A brave and compassionate leader of Russia would not prohibit adoption, particularly if the Russian child was going to a wealthy family in one of the wealthiest countries in human history. The child has a far better chance of leading a happy, prosperous life in our country. ...but then, the Russians don't really care about the kids. They care about scoring political points.


    ...yuuuuck. I hate these stories. I hate knowing that they exist and that all of this happens. What a shame.
    Last edited by KingNothing; 02-19-2013 at 08:51 PM.

  12. #41
    Member fr33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Middle of Nowhere, TX
    Posts
    7,704

    Default

    I seriously doubt adoption's turn out any better in Russia percentage-wise than they do here. This is a political game by 2 violent monopolies known as government.

    Like I said before though; I can see why other countries think we are a violent bunch of psychos. Our media portrays us to be just that.

  13. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    I seriously doubt adoption's turn out any better in Russia percentage-wise than they do here. This is a political game by 2 violent monopolies known as government.

    Like I said before though; I can see why other countries think we are a violent bunch of psychos. Our media portrays us to be just that.
    Certainly. We think of ourselves that way. And when the numbers are churned out that show how low violent crime actually is in America, especially outside some of our third-world like cities, people don't even believe them. Almost everything is awesome, and no one appreciates it. We're living in the most comfortable, safe, time in human history and it is totally wasted on us. We aren't even willing to accept it.

    For all the progress we've made, we refuse to even acknowledge that things are improving. And maybe that is a good thing. Maybe it means we aren't willing to settle for the status quo, ever. Hopefully it keeps driving us forward, and inspiring us to treat each other better, help each other more, and embrace the economic policies that have made us so wealthy. That's my hope, anyway.

  14. #43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    I seriously doubt adoption's turn out any better in Russia percentage-wise than they do here. This is a political game by 2 violent monopolies known as government.

    Like I said before though; I can see why other countries think we are a violent bunch of psychos. Our media portrays us to be just that.
    We like war!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  15. #44

    Default

    And the plot thickens. The mother of the Russian 'orphans' asks the Russian government to restore her parental rights so she can raise her surviving son.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ther-dead.html



    The Russian birth mother of two boys who were adopted by a Texas couple appealed to President Vladimir Putin Wednesday, asking that her younger son be returned to her after his three-year-old brother died under suspicious circumstances.

    Yulia Kuzmina, 23, lost custody of her sons, Maksim (Max) and Kirill, in 2011 after she had been deemed unfit to raise them due to her addiction to alcohol.
    more at link
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  16. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    For all the progress we've made, we refuse to even acknowledge that things are improving. And maybe that is a good thing. Maybe it means we aren't willing to settle for the status quo, ever. Hopefully it keeps driving us forward, and inspiring us to treat each other better, help each other more, and embrace the economic policies that have made us so wealthy. That's my hope, anyway.
    WTF?

    Progress on what front?

    Treat one another better? Wealth?

    I'm just over half a century old and in my lifetime I have observed the exact opposite of what you describe..

    Please tell me this was intended as sarcasm....

  17. #46

    Default

    Here's another adoptee who should be grateful she was shipped off to America where almost everything is awesome. (Just sarcastically quoting the previously stated sentiment.)

    She ended up tossed from home to home, landed on the street, and not surprisingly, under her awesome circumstances, was busted in a drug deal. This isn't a new case, but it's getting some press today, so I thought I would link it.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/18584499.cms

    Halt adoption by foreigners: Activists
    ByAmbika Pandit, TNN | Feb 20, 2013, 04.43 AM IST


    NEW DELHI: Jennifer Edgell Haynes was placed in an orphanage by her poverty-stricken mother when she was five years old. It gave her away in adoption to an American couple through court orders, without obtaining her mother's consent. However, what appeared to be a successful adoption was followed by constant dislocation of Haynes, who was tossed from one foster parent to another, ultimately finding herself dumped on Indian shores as a "deportee".

    Haynes, now 31, is torn between her fight for survival and the urge to be reunited with her husband and two children, aged nine and 10, back in the US. On Tuesday, Jennifer's plight helped crystallize the demand for a "moratorium on inter-country adoptions" till a comprehensive law on adoption is put in place. Poor parents who lost their children to trafficking in the name of inter-country adoption as well as activists came together in the capital.

    Child rights activists were brought together by Pune-based voluntary organization Sakhi, Against Child Trafficking (ACT-Brussels), and Delhi-based HAQ-Centre for Child Rights. The capital will witness a two-day international conference, from February 19 to 20, on adoption, organized by Central Adoption Resource Agency and the women and child development ministry.

    TOI had reported Haynes' case on November 7, 2010, when US President Barack Obama visited India. Haynes had written an open letter to him in Mumbai. Haynes now earns a living by working at a Mumbai call centre. Though she fears being turned out again, the hope of reuniting with her children in Michigan keeps her going.

    Haynes was adopted by an American couple from a Mumbai orphanage in 1989. Unfortunately for the five-year-old, her foster family didn't want to keep after two years. The adoption agency reportedly handed Haynes over to another American couple in Michigan. But that was not the end of her trials. Haynes claims her new foster parents exploited her and she was forced to seek refuge in other foster homes, eventually ending up on America's mean streets.

    Things settled down a bit when she married but this newfound stability was short-lived. Haynes was deported to India when she was caught in a drug case in 2008.

    She was told she wasn't an American citizen and had no right to stay in the US.

    She says, "Till then I thought I was very much an American but when the immigration officials saw my papers, it came to light that the documentation process for my US citizenship was not complete. My adoptive parents had never bothered to complete the process. I was put in a plane, and sent back to India. It happened on July 2, which was also my wedding anniversary."

    Haynes' letter to Obama asked for a chance to be united with her children Kadafi, and Kassana. Her only link with them is through phone. Haynes says the problem of being deported to her "home" country is faced by most adopted children. Activist Arun Dohle from network ACT says that Haynes case brings to the fore the dangers of inter-country adoption. Anjali Pawar, director of the NGO Sakhi, is supporting Haynes in her fight for justice. She says, "Her case reveals that adoptive families did not do the needful for completing formalities for getting her an American citizenship. This entire process needs to be examined."
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  18. #47

    Default

    duplicate
    Last edited by thequietkid10; 02-21-2013 at 07:38 PM.

  19. #48

    Default

    doesn't this basically boil down to "a select group of people are being violent assholes so the Indian/Russian/Timbuktu government should step in and shut down the entire process "for the children" because of these assholes." Isn't this the same basic arguement for drug prohabition. "A percentage of the population can't handle hard drugs and there children suffer for it, so we should ban all hard drugs."

    Somehow I don't imagine very many "Foreign kid gets adaopted by loving American couple has a happier healther life then if he stayed in the shithole he came from" to be a very common news story. Especially from news outlets like RT that (rightly or wrongly) already have a bent against the United States.
    Last edited by thequietkid10; 02-21-2013 at 07:42 PM.

  20. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thequietkid10 View Post
    doesn't this basically boil down to "a select group of people are being violent assholes so the Indian/Russian/Timbuktu government should step in and shut down the entire process "for the children" because of these assholes." Isn't this the same basic arguement for drug prohabition. "A percentage of the population can't handle hard drugs and there children suffer for it, so we should ban all hard drugs."

    Somehow I don't imagine very many "Foreign kid gets adaopted by loving American couple has a happier healther life then if he stayed in the shithole he came from" to be a very common news story. Especially from news outlets like RT that (rightly or wrongly) already have a bent against the United States.
    So we should just claim American Exceptionalism and demand that foreign countries continue to surrender their children to us?
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  21. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    So we should just claim American Exceptionalism and demand that foreign countries continue to surrender their children to us?
    First off pointing out that certain foreign outlets media tend to do stories that more often critical of the US does not equal Exceptionalism.

    Second, what exactly do you mean by "demand that foreign countries continue to surrender their children to us" that's not how I understand adoption to be at all. If the Russian government or any government bans children from being adopted by Americans. Then most people who want to adapt will just find another way.

    And the vast majority of those who would still want to adopt children from these nations, would be doing so because they are already financially or personally invested in the process.
    Last edited by thequietkid10; 02-21-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  22. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thequietkid10 View Post
    First off pointing out that certain foreign outlets media tend to do stories that more often critical of the US does not equal Exceptionalism.

    Second, what exactly do you mean by "demand that foreign countries continue to surrender their children to us" that's not how I understand adoption to be at all. If the Russian government or any government bans children from being adopted by Americans. Then most people who want to adapt will just find another way.

    And the vast majority of those who would still want to adopt children from these nations, would be doing so because they are already financially or personally invested in the process.
    Just making sure I understand what you're saying. Adoption is frequently held to different standards than any other modern institution. I'm really not completely clear on your post, but there was a reference to the 'it's for the children' mentality. The institution of American adoption has escaped scrutiny since its inception around a century ago due to the 'it's for the children' mentality. Child placement should be for the children. Adoption is a form of child placement. However, adoption as it's currently practiced in the US is really for the adults who wish to adopt. It's shrouded in secrecy. Few people who are not directly involved in adoption have a working knowledge of the institution, and many of those who are directly involved only see the parts of the puzzle that directly impact them. The institution was designed to function in just that manner. Any institution founded upon secrecy should have a really, really bright light shined in each and every crack and crevice. When that begins to happen, the institution screams, "Turn off the light!! Turn off the light!! It's for the children!!" Their plea is having less effect now than in the past.

    Here's an American link to the deportee issue:

    http://landofgazillionadoptees.com/2...been-deported/

    As for the Russian child(ren), it is being reported in the American press. The article about his mother in Russia was not from RT. It was from the United Kingdom.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  23. #52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    Off the top of my head, 60,000. I'm sure google has a better recall than I do. The abuse cases are listed at the link if you are interested in them.
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    The number 19 dead seems to come to mind. I don't have a cite for you.
    Ok so best guess is 19 out of 60,000 Russian babies in US have died. My guess is that is likely as good treatment as they are getting in Russia. Maybe better.

    The bottom line is that Russia does not owe us children. They don't have to give a reason to end US adoptions. They can do it just on accounta because.
    Of course they can. I don't give a shit. I don't ever want to adopt a Russian baby. People are using this to try to justify why the Russians stopped adoptions. If that's the case then let's look it is a valid reason.

    Attempting to minimize the death of a child could be a factor in their reasoning. I don't know. I'm not Russian. But it seems to me that if the Russians were attempting to reduce the life of an American child to a statistic, that may offend a few folks in this country.
    All you have is statistics. Otherwise you are just relying on anecdotes and heart-wrenching stories.

    There are abusive Russian parents and abusive American parents. Without statistics how can you make an evidence based decision.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  24. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    Just making sure I understand what you're saying. Adoption is frequently held to different standards than any other modern institution. I'm really not completely clear on your post, but there was a reference to the 'it's for the children' mentality. The institution of American adoption has escaped scrutiny since its inception around a century ago due to the 'it's for the children' mentality. Child placement should be for the children. Adoption is a form of child placement. However, adoption as it's currently practiced in the US is really for the adults who wish to adopt. It's shrouded in secrecy. Few people who are not directly involved in adoption have a working knowledge of the institution, and many of those who are directly involved only see the parts of the puzzle that directly impact them. The institution was designed to function in just that manner. Any institution founded upon secrecy should have a really, really bright light shined in each and every crack and crevice. When that begins to happen, the institution screams, "Turn off the light!! Turn off the light!! It's for the children!!" Their plea is having less effect now than in the past.

    Here's an American link to the deportee issue:

    http://landofgazillionadoptees.com/2...been-deported/

    As for the Russian child(ren), it is being reported in the American press. The article about his mother in Russia was not from RT. It was from the United Kingdom.
    My reference to children was quoting something written by you. I asked you what you meant by that, and you haven't answered.

    To the extent that there is a "for the children" element to my post its this. The anecdotal stories posted here about horrible experiences that some children have had after being adopted by American parents is a plea to emotion, just like the "for the children" mentality. It doesn't tell the percentage of adoptees abused by their adopted parents and it doesn't tell us much about the state of adoption system in this country. And it certainly doesn't justify a broad decree from a pseudo dictator (Putin), ending all American adoptions from his country.

    I do believe that US adoption system designed to severe all connection between the biological parent and the biological child is a smart decision. If Russia, or anyone has a problem with the system before hand, they should ask for more openness and make their decision on a case by case bases.
    Last edited by thequietkid10; 02-23-2013 at 05:31 PM.

  25. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thequietkid10 View Post
    My reference to children was quoting something written by you. I asked you what you meant by that, and you haven't answered.

    To the extent that there is a "for the children" element to my post its this. The anecdotal stories posted here about horrible experiences that some children have had after being adopted by American parents is a plea to emotion, just like the "for the children" mentality. It doesn't tell the percentage of adoptees abused by their adopted parents and it doesn't tell us much about the state of adoption system in this country. And it certainly doesn't justify a broad decree from a pseudo dictator (Putin), ending all American adoptions from his country.

    I do believe that US adoption system designed to severe all connection between the biological parent and the biological child is a smart decision. If Russia, or anyone has a problem with the system before hand, they should ask for more openness and make their decision on a case by case bases.
    Well then we must agree to disagree. I don't believe the state has the power to destroy the family. You don't like anecdotal stories. I don't like lives reduced to statistics.

    I'll have to cut this a little short for the evening. FTDNA finally got new matches posted after almost two months, and I think I've broken down two brick walls. One on my Hays line, and the other on my Adams line. It's pretty amazing. The state didn't have the power to control my DNA. The government may fancy itself in such a position of power that they possess the authority to sever all connection between the biological parent and child, but they are beyond arrogant in thinking so. And for the record, Russia has asked for more openness.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...010490110.html
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  26. #55

    Default

    The death was ruled accidental. These kids from Russia are subjected to horrors in the orphanages. I have seen recently a family that adopted a 15 year old from Eastern Europe that only weighed 26 pounds. Utter sheer HORROR! To the person who posted about why people just do not adopt from the US. Its not that easy to adopt from US. Have you tried? The kids in foster care are usually affected by FAS or born to mothers on drugs. So many of them are not even available to adopt because the birth family rights have not been terminated. These kids are in limbo. A domestic newborn adoption with a placing agency costs around 50K and there are TONS of people lined up for them. Many of these kids will still have FAS or exposure to drugs too. We adopted from China because its a stable program. The adoption is final once you have custody of your child. Total adoption cost were about 24K and only 5K was spent in China. The rest was spent on US side of things. Overall I think adoption should be a last resort though. I think if families can stay together its best for everyone. Its not a perfect world though...

  27. #56

    Default

    Apparently the adoption industry is loaded with rent seekers

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12




« Previous Thread | Next Thread »


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •