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Thread: Frum outlines how smoking bans can be used for gun bans.

  1. #1

    Exclamation Frum outlines how smoking bans can be used for gun bans.

    Like I never saw this coming.

    Good job, prohibitionists, good job.




    Obama needs a 'Plan B' on guns

    By David Frum, CNN Contributor
    updated 1:33 PM EST, Mon February 18, 2013

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/18/opinio...uns/index.html

    Editor's note: David Frum, a CNN contributor, is a contributing editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast. He is the author of eight books, including a new novel, "Patriots," and a post-election e-book, "Why Romney Lost." Frum was a special assistant to President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2002.

    (CNN) -- On guns, President Obama needs a "Plan B."

    The president himself recognizes that the votes probably aren't there to pass any significant gun legislation through Congress. In his State of the Union address, he was reduced to pleading with Congress to allow a vote at all, never mind actually enact anything.

    Even if Congress were seized by a sudden change of heart, the measures the president has proposed seem unlikely to achieve much.

    Universal background checks would be a baby step forward. But until state governments join background checks to some effective system of gun licensing, the checks are very easily evaded. A felon or domestic batterer or disturbed person need only find a person with a clean background to buy a weapon for him.

    But here are two things that can make a real difference -- without a vote in Congress.

    First: The president can direct the surgeon general to compile a scientific study of the health effect of individual gun ownership.

    The basis of the whole gun debate in the United States is the belief by millions of Americans that they need a firearm in the home to protect themselves from criminals. Testifying to Congress last month, a gun advocate named Gayle Trotter presented a vivid image of how guns might be used.

    "An assault weapon in the hands of a young woman defending her babies in her home becomes a defense weapon, and the peace of mind that a woman has as she's facing three, four, five violent attackers, intruders in her home, with her children screaming in the background, the peace of mind that she has knowing that she has a scary-looking gun gives her more courage when she's fighting hardened, violent criminals."

    Thrilling. Also wholly imaginary. Such Rambo-like defenses of home and hearth do not happen in real life, unless the home also happens to contain a meth lab. (The oft-cited statistic that gun owners draw in self-defense 2.5 million times a year is a classic of bad social science.)

    (And that right there is how it begins. You want guns? Huh, you must be a meth head. - AF)

    Incidents like these, however, do happen -- and tragically often:

    "A fourteen year-old girl jumped out of the closet and shouted 'Boo' when her parents came home in the middle of the night. Taking her for an intruder, her father shot and killed her. Her last words were 'I love you, Daddy.' "

    That true story, reported in the Boston Globe in 1994, appears on page 70 of the classic study "Private Guns, Public Health" by David Hemenway, director of Harvard's Injury Control Research Center. It's just one of thousands of similar incidents in the United States every year.

    Hemenway again: "Between 1990 and 2000, an annual average of 320 children zero to fourteen either committed suicide with guns or were accidentally killed by guns." American children are much more likely to suffer these tragedies than children in other countries. States with more guns suffer more than states in which guns are less common.

    Complete coverage: Gun Debate

    Claims that homeowners often use guns for legitimate self-defense dwindle away on close examination.

    What the gun owner claims as self-defense often looks, on closer examination, more like trigger-happy recklessness.

    Here's another case, as reported by Hemenway.

    "Two women, aged thirty-four and forty, were driving home from work when one cut the other off on a congested highway. Their rage escalated as traffic crawled for miles and the women flashed their headlights and hit their brakes. Both vehicles left the interstate, heading for home. At the first traffic light, one woman left her car and approached the other, perhaps to end the confrontation. The woman in the car shot the approaching woman in the face, killing her."

    Self-defense? Maybe. But the shooter herself wasn't so sure. She was recorded weeping, "Oh, my God, I shot her. Oh, my God, I can't believe I shot her. Oh, my God, I can't believe she's dying."

    As for guns in the home, Hemenway reports studies find that "(G)uns are used far more often in the home to intimidate and frighten intimates than to protect against intruders."

    These are facts about guns that are well-known to the social scientists who study gun injury but poorly understood by the general public.

    Read more: Obama in Chicago to talk guns

    Fifty years ago, Americans contended with similar public ignorance -- and similar industry misinformation -- about the hazards of cigarette smoking. The argument was settled by the famous surgeon general's report of 1964.

    Congress in the mid-1990s forbade the federal government to fund its own research into the health risks presented by guns. By now, however, enough research has been done by privately funded scholars that the surgeon general could write a report based on existing material. Such a report would surely reach the conclusion that a gun in the home greatly elevates risks of suicide, lethal accident and fatal domestic violence. The first step to changing gun policy is to change public attitudes about guns, as Americans previously changed their attitudes about tobacco and drunken driving.

    The surgeon general can lead that attitude change with more authority than any other public official.

    The second step that might be taken -- again without the need for any congressional vote -- is for the Senate to convene hearings into the practices of the gun industry analogous to those it convened into the tobacco industry in the 1990s.

    Read more: Gun focus shifts from ban to checks and trafficking

    So many gun accidents occur because guns almost never indicate whether a bullet is present in the chamber. A gun owner might remove the gun's magazine and believe the gun unloaded, when in fact it still contains one potentially deadly shot. Why not require guns to be equipped with indicator lights? Why not require that guns be designed so that they will not fire if dropped? We have safety standards for every consumer product, from children's cribs to lawnmowers, except for the most dangerous consumer product of them all. Not only that, Congress has actually immunized makers of that product against harms inflicted by unsafe design.

    Gun makers often design their weapons in ways that present no benefit for lawful users but that greatly assist criminals. They don't coordinate the issuance of serial numbers so that each gun can be identified with certainty. They stamp serial numbers in places where they can be effaced.

    They reject police requests to etch barrels to uniquely mark each cartridge fired by a particular gun.

    They sell bullets that can pierce police armor.

    They will not include trigger locks and other child-proofing devices as standard equipment.

    They ignore new technology that would render guns inoperable by anyone except their approved purchaser.

    Why? Why? And why?

    U.S. gunmakers have never been required to answer these questions. But one Senate subcommittee chairman with subpoena powers could cast much needed light on an industry whose record makes the tobacco industry look a paragon of transparency and accountability in comparison.

    There's a gun agenda that need not depend on politics and that will not snatch a single weapon from any owner, whether law-abiding or not. If Congress stalls on the president's ambitious legislative schemes, the president should fall back on this Plan B to publicize what guns really do to those who carry them -- and what gunmakers do to their customers.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2
    "indicator lights" Brilliant!
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    What does that mean, "Gun owners are the new smokers"? Is that supposed to make smokers look good as if smoking was even relevant to liberty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

    If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.
    I probably won't be here, but you watch how this unfolds, unless you folks are brave enough to stop it.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  5. #4
    Not only that, Congress has actually immunized makers of that product against harms inflicted by unsafe design.
    That is just a flat out lie on Frum's part.

    Congress did no such thing, in fact the only people that enjoy immunity from liability when their product, properly used, causes harm, are vaccine makers.

    If I buy, oh say, a Springfield XD series pistol and because of a defect in quality or assembly, it blows up in my face, I most certainly can sue.

    You can't sue Springfield if someone steals my XD and shoots you in a liquor store robbery.

  6. #5
    He's an idiot.


    davidfrum (@davidfrum) tweeted at 9:42am - 18 Feb 13:

    Why doesnt every gun automatically indicate whether there's a bullet in the chamber? (https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/303530058285457408)

  7. #6
    BenK84
    @davidfrum Why doesnt every David Frum column automatically indicate that it doesn't contain any new content or ideas?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  8. #7
    I'm glad Frum said all this crap, guess what it makes it easier for me to do?

    Convince my neocon MIL that neocons really are not conservatives. She's got a new boyfriend now who's really into hunting, guns, etc. and I think that's strong enough for her to finally freaking listen. She's a Fox News junkie who trusts people like Glenn Beck, Frum, Kristol and people of their ilk. This might just sway her to be a tad more critical.

    I hope.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  9. #8
    “My next book is going to be called ‘Some People Never Go Away’ and Karl Rove is going to get his own chapter because he never goes away.”
    - Bob Woodward
    Add Frum to that list Bob and I'll buy your book!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    ...

    You can't sue Springfield if someone steals my XD and shoots you in a liquor store robbery.
    You cant sue Springfield, but the Liquor Store Owner most certainly can sue you, and will probably win.

    Unfortunately, that is an effect of the stupidity of Jurors. It is not the effect of a Flaw of the Constitution.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  12. #10
    Thrilling. Also wholly imaginary. Such Rambo-like defenses of home and hearth do not happen in real life, unless the home also happens to contain a meth lab. (The oft-cited statistic that gun owners draw in self-defense 2.5 million times a year is a classic of bad social science.)
    This never happened...figments of imagination.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...bers-Kills-Two
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 02-19-2013 at 12:17 AM.

  13. #11
    Picard and number 1 are hitting me with a laser version of the article...

    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  14. #12
    Newsweek's idea of a conservative republican.

    From Wiki,from his own mouth:

    In a Newsweek column, Frum described his political beliefs as follows:
    I'm a conservative Republican, have been all my adult life. I volunteered for the Reagan campaign in 1980. I've attended every Republican convention since 1988. I was president of the Federalist Society chapter at my law school, worked on the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal and wrote speeches for President Bush—not the "Read My Lips" Bush, the "Axis of Evil" Bush. I served on the Giuliani campaign in 2008 and voted for John McCain in November. I supported the Iraq War and (although I feel kind of silly about it in retrospect) the impeachment of Bill Clinton. I could go on, but you get the idea.[35]

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    He's an idiot.


    davidfrum (@davidfrum) tweeted at 9:42am - 18 Feb 13:

    Why doesnt every gun automatically indicate whether there's a bullet in the chamber? (https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/303530058285457408)

    lol. Mine indicate there's a bullet in the chamber... ummmm.... mostly by there being a bullet in the chamber.
    We have allies many of you are not aware of. Watch the tube. Show this to your 30 and under friends. Listen to it. Even if you don't like rap, it has 2.7 million views.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU#t=0m16s

    Cut off one min early to avoid war porn.



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