Neg. Rep.Originally Posted by Matt Collins
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Neg. Rep.
You're preaching to the choir. One of the arguments Matt and I had often during the 2012 cycle was over my insistence that we needed more than "likely Republican voters" to win. And I put my money where my mouth was by reaching out to Democrats with the simple message that "Obama is running unopposed. You might as well vote for the antiwar republican in the primary." I had moderate success winning over at least 8 voters. Granted they were all family members but they were voters Ron wouldn't have had otherwise. In 2016 the Democratic primary will be contested so I'm not sure what strategy to use.In Jefferson county Iowa we networked and reached out to independents and Democrats. Our county was the only county Ron Paul won in 2008 and won with nearly 50% of the vote in 2012. If independents could have had their own primary Ron would have run away with it. Perhaps my county is an outlier but what we did hear worked, plain and simple, it worked. And it felt good to win.
On a grassroots level we'll probably have the same strategy for Rand. Look to Jefferson county during the Iowa caucus and see how we do. I think we'll outperform every other county in the state. I would bet on that.
ThisThe most important thing to remember in dealing with the grassroots is that the grassroots can't be "managed." You can enlist them, but you can't centrally contain, restrain, or coerce them. Any attempt to manage, manipulate, govern, direct, exploit, or otherwise "use" the grassroots from the top down will fail, because such oversight is intrinsically antithetical — even offensive — to grassroots activism. Instead, those who seek to involve the grassroots in their cause must largely defer to the grassroots, even cater to the grassroots' vision of the cause at issue. People at the grassroots can be led — within certain inviolable principles — but they can't be made subservient.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
Combine that with what Matt had mentioned in post 493 and we maybe have a ball game.
If the grassroots message is different than the candidate's then it hurts the candidate (9/11 conspiracy is an example of this).
Speak for yourself.
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"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
We actually polled that in 2012 to determine what happened there, and what we came to realize is that there was a specific demographic or psychographic anomaly in that area.... either a large church or a college or something that was pre-disposed to vote for Ron, I can't remember the specifics.
Oh and by the way, awesome job, but unfortunately that doesn't work in most places.
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"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
I'm pretty sure she did. It just happens to echo my belief.
I've never tried to portray myself as relevant, Matt. I'm a grassroots activist and event organizer, that's it. I hang out here, because I can fellowship with people who I have a lot in common with. Unlike you, who attempts to portray himself as something he isn't. You claimed in a now closed thread, that you are an authority on matters such as these because you are an instructor on campaigning, and an advisor to candidates. When I challenged you to prove it, and suggested that you PM me if you didn't want your verification to be made public, you took me up on it - except it was all for show - you never proved a blasted thing. All you did was try in vain, ONCE AGAIN, to get me to accept your "friend request" on FB. You're no authority, Matt. You're just a coattail rider with a few classes under your belt, and some campaign worker experience.
And once again, the truther movment is NOT the reason Ron wasn't elected. Give me a freakin break.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
It really is that^. I know I wasted enough time arguing about such things; but really there is nothing you can do about it. Logic and reason don't matter, because the grassroots is an emotional thing. You can't control the grassroots, they are gonna do whatever they want to do. In fact, controlling it is the only way to really kill it off.
I would say that controlling it fragments it more so than killing it off. If we say kill it off we yield to the notion that a single fragment of the grassroots defines it. which it doesn't.
Someone with a lot of rep please NEG REP That post of Collinz..............I accidentally +rep'ed it with a negative comment. Oops, I'm not used to neg repping. Someone hit me with some neg rep for being so irresponsible with my rep.
"When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law
"nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence
"I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin
I'll cover you right after I plus rep you. Gotta get some plus to generate a neg. That's the way it works brother.
Matt Collins is the Nancy Pelosi of Ron Paul forums.
I seem to recall that he said more than once that the campaign wasn't even running to win, but just to get Ron'a name and message out. It might be true that spending money on the blimp didn't earn us enough votes-per-dollar spent, but we still got more media airtime than the official campaign did with their ad buys, because they didn't buy any.
And since we now know that Ron's campaign was not really running to win any elections regardless, it turns out that targeting voters in a conventional manner (ie: sending money to the campaign) was actually a far dumber idea than the blimp ever was.
We had to fund the campaign to find out what was in it.
But he has the unmitigated gall to claim the grassroots needs to learn how to win .... even though the campaign was never about winning, even though they adamantly claimed they were running to win ..... That would be funny if it didn't make me so irate.
But that's the Pelosi factor You can throw all the facts at him you want, but he never blinks. He just makes up some new reason to be right.
.
Last edited by angelatc; 11-26-2014 at 06:10 PM.
Yeah, well, that just proves that you're not relevant, either. Didn't you get the memo?
Only officially trained and approved hucksters like Teh Collinz get to make such judgements ...
Last edited by Occam's Banana; 11-26-2014 at 06:14 PM.
The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)· tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
I'm dying here. ROFLMAO!! The whole thing was priceless, but that line is a real treasure!
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
http://www.yourlogicalfallacyis.Post...go-propter-hoc
What does it benefit a man if he gains the whole world (or a nomination) but forfeits his soul in the process?
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
Epic.
Now blmpin' ain't easy but it's necessary
I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!
Andrew Jackson, 1834
yourlogicalfallacyis:youkeepspoutingthesamethingov erandoverwithnoproof
Gonna have to generate some more to give angelatc a + rep for this can ya cover me?
Did.
Originally Posted by Deborah K:
I've never tried to portray myself as relevant, Matt. I'm a grassroots activist and event organizer, that's it. I hang out here, because I can fellowship with people who I have a lot in common with. Unlike you, who attempts to portray himself as something he isn't. You claimed in a now closed thread, that you are an authority on matters such as these because you are an instructor on campaigning, and an advisor to candidates. When I challenged you to prove it, and suggested that you PM me if you didn't want your verification to be made public, you took me up on it - except it was all for show - you never proved a blasted thing. All you did was try in vain, ONCE AGAIN, to get me to accept your "friend request" on FB. You're no authority, Matt. You're just a coattail rider with a few classes under your belt, and some campaign worker experience.
And once again, the truther movment is NOT the reason Ron wasn't elected. Give me a freakin break.
I don't have the time. Is there an online certification program that I can just throw .02 cents at?
Done.
Now to whack Teh Collinz with a neg rep for yet another "your logical fallacy" fallacy.
Too many people lose sight of that.
"Winning" the conventional way, in this environment, means you lose, in the end.
Ain't it strange how Teh Collinz seems to forget all about how "correlation is not causation" when it suits his purposes?
Why, one might almost be tempted to think that maybe he's an intellectually dishonest hypocrite ...
Hogwash! That's EXACTLY how you win, at least if the media isn't pushing you and/or votes are rigged in your favor. This has been shown over and over by grassroots campaigns, some publicized here like Gunny's and some that aren't like my county commissioner friend that won because of poll workers and door-to-door activism. I'm sure you'll claim that such practices can't be applied to national campaigns but they can be if the efforts are targeted correctly, coordinated with the national campaign and the message is tailored to resonate with those voters. Collins talks a lot about tailoring message but I think he really means tailoring the "image", not so much the message. Ron was about the message, not the image.
That's the beauty of libertarian philosophy. It's not about pushing a centrally controlled top-down authority message. It's about letting voters know that they can decide what their own community's concerns are and how to best address them without the corporate-owned feds dictating from 2000 miles away. Of course, a politician can't address every concern in national appearances like debates but the campaign trail is where it can be done. Debates are where the big picture liberty message is delivered. The grassroots can help to determine what these local issues are for that candidate to speak to at local appearances.
Last edited by devil21; 11-26-2014 at 09:05 PM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
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