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Thread: VIDEO: Ron Paul files suit for RonPaul.com (Fox News)

  1. #1

    Default VIDEO: Ron Paul files suit for RonPaul.com (Fox News)

    Tamara Holder and Lis Wiehl on Fox News discuss trademark battle between former congressman and his supporters
    “The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
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    Member fr33's Avatar
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    Every headline seems to run the meme "against his supporters".

    Well I'm one of those supporters and he hasn't done anything to me and I have no respect for what the domain owner is doing

  4. #3

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    lol Ron Paul's sure off to a great start at ruining his legacy.
    Original supporter of Ron Paul since 2007 and I stand with Rand.

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    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    I wonder what multiple of annual free cash-flow $250,000 is for that website.

    My guess is that 5x is an extremely, extremely, extremely far too low for an estimate.

    I mean if the owner really wanted $250,000 for it, he could easily justify it by having a CPA do a certification of the cashflow, and then state a multiple based on that figure that gets to $250,000.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


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    Member eleganz's Avatar
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    Lady in the pink dress is pleading an emotional argument. Lady in white is more level headed.

    Lady in pink needs to be shown the door.
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    Member eleganz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    I wonder what multiple of annual free cash-flow $250,000 is for that website.

    My guess is that 5x is an extremely, extremely, extremely far too low for an estimate.

    I mean if the owner really wanted $250,000 for it, he could easily justify it by having a CPA do a certification of the cashflow, and then state a multiple based on that figure that gets to $250,000.
    They'll never show you how much they make because then they will lose the 'grassroots support' because we will find out they make entirely way too much. There is a blatant reason why they left out their earnings from the 'letter' but instead talked about how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed. They figure if they can play to everybody's emotion, they'll look RP bad for trying to get the domain.
    Los Angeles County Republican Party (the largest GOP central committee in the nation)
    -57% of the executive board is liberty
    -43% of the executive committee is liberty
    -40% of the central committee is liberty

    Getting involved at the local level is the most important thing you can do to WIN

    be ACTIVE, be EFFECTIVE, be ORGANIZED, be STRATEGIC, be VICTORIOUS.

    "Let it not be said that we did nothing"
    -Ron Paul

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    They'll never show you how much they make because then they will lose the 'grassroots support' because we will find out they make entirely way too much.
    I've never known libertarians to complain about people making too much money. I hope they are getting filthy rich off the site, but in reality revenue is probably something like 5k/month, which puts Cowlesy's 5x estimate right in the ballpark.
    Original supporter of Ron Paul since 2007 and I stand with Rand.

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    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Disappoint

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    Member fr33's Avatar
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    They should quit calling them supporters and instead call them what they are. People making a living off of the liberty movement.

  11. #10

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    I have to wonder if Ron Paul is really behind this. It doesn't seem like something he'd push to the point of a lawsuit.
    If something bad happens, we will be blamed. If something good happens, we will get no credit. If nothing happens, we will be forgotten.

  12. #11

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    I put extensive comments on this on the other thread. We don't know what happened and do know the site owner is trying to stir up public opinion against Ron for 'going to the UN' when the tribunal is specified in the site owner's own agreement with the domain, which also specifies the rules that allowed the site owner to snap up Ron's sites over the years and also specifies the basis for this claim.

    Having said that, I am surprised at this action, but not knowing why Ron did it, I am giving him every benefit of the doubt until I find out the facts.

    In the meantime I think the site owner who has this site on whosis to sell to anyone including Ron's enemies right now, from what I can tell, should suggest a fair mechanism for neutral valuation of the site. Ron has an estimate saying it is worth $50,000. If that isn't correct, suggest another method.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

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  13. #12

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    Getting bored with it.Just go get them,Ron.Calling themselves 'supporters' is just cr#p.
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  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    They'll never show you how much they make because then they will lose the 'grassroots support' because we will find out they make entirely way too much. There is a blatant reason why they left out their earnings from the 'letter' but instead talked about how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed. They figure if they can play to everybody's emotion, they'll look RP bad for trying to get the domain.
    They also said the take it or leave it was because they wanted not to sell it after all, yet as of yesterday it was listed on whosis for ANYONE to buy. That it might have been on the verge of being sold potentially to people who would try to cause trouble for his new project (an Adelson funded group like the one attacking Hagel or something) might have been what precipitated the claim. No idea, but as I said, I'm giving Ron the benefit of the doubt.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  15. #14

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    This wasn't on TV (in case anybody was wondering).

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I have to wonder if Ron Paul is really behind this. It doesn't seem like something he'd push to the point of a lawsuit.
    http://www.ronpaul.com/images/Annexes.pdf

    Page 32 & 38, he signed the affidavit, and his daughter notarized.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I have to wonder if Ron Paul is really behind this. It doesn't seem like something he'd push to the point of a lawsuit.
    yeah he's behind it, he and his son signed an affidavit. It's there in black and white. And it's not a suit!

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    For what it's worth, I recall Josh and myself having tried many times to find out who the people behind the site were, but I know I never got anywhere with that. I wanted to talk to them about transcripts and captioning videos. I sent numerous emails to them over a period of four years and never once heard back. The people running that site never passed the smell test for me. But that's just me.
    .... in his heart, and in his head, in his character, and in his intellect, in what he has done, and in what he will become, the Thomas Jefferson of our day, Ron Paul is one of us.
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  19. #18

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    The people holding RonPaul.com stopped being supporters of Ron Paul precisely when they failed to cooperate with Ron Paul.

    The use of "supporters" in the press is evidence of slanting this story in a certain fashion (Or of lazy journalism).

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    Member sgt150's Avatar
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    Ugh, what a bunch of nonsense this is.
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  21. #20

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    I can't stand to watch the video again to verify the explicit accuracy of the following statement, but I want to say that literally everything stated in the video is false. That was really, really bad analysis coming from a layperson, much less so called legal experts.

    This isn't a lawsuit, it isn't against 'his supporters'. Outrageously horrid video. Shame shame.
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

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    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    I've never known libertarians to complain about people making too much money. I hope they are getting filthy rich off the site, but in reality revenue is probably something like 5k/month, which puts Cowlesy's 5x estimate right in the ballpark.
    Do you think after all their fees/expenses, they really pull down $5,000 a month for the site? It just seems like...a lot....for a Ron Paul supporter site that I absolutely never visit.

    If they really make that after fees/expenses, I imagine somewhere in the range of 1x-1.5x would be a fair price, so $70,000-$105,000?
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  23. #22

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    heres my problem with it. the site has been owned for years by someone else. but now that $250k is to much to ask, there is now a problem? where does the free market come in at? i do understand the other side of the argument, but whats to stop all the other couple hundred ron pauls from suing ron himself for the site?? i just dont agree with this suit.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by satchelmcqueen View Post
    heres my problem with it. the site has been owned for years by someone else. but now that $250k is to much to ask, there is now a problem? where does the free market come in at? i do understand the other side of the argument, but whats to stop all the other couple hundred ron pauls from suing ron himself for the site?? i just dont agree with this suit.
    I agree. I don't know why Ron didn't offer 100 and then meet in the middle. This could have been solved pretty easily I am guessing, but now it is going to get dragged out in the media and the only one that gets hurt is Ron.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by satchelmcqueen View Post
    heres my problem with it. the site has been owned for years by someone else. but now that $250k is to much to ask, there is now a problem? where does the free market come in at? i do understand the other side of the argument, but whats to stop all the other couple hundred ron pauls from suing ron himself for the site?? i just dont agree with this suit.
    It's not a suit, and the only information at this point that we have has been released by someone with a horse in the race, who has an interest in making himself look good and RP look bad... I would wait until more information is available before making up my mind about anything.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  26. #25
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satchelmcqueen View Post
    heres my problem with it. the site has been owned for years by someone else. but now that $250k is to much to ask, there is now a problem? where does the free market come in at? i do understand the other side of the argument, but whats to stop all the other couple hundred ron pauls from suing ron himself for the site?? i just dont agree with this suit.
    I agree, I just don't get it. I would think Ron would pay the fair market value of the site (hey if the guy is making $70,000 on it after fees/expenses, that's a decent living). Ron can't just expect the guy to say "oh okay, here's a $70k donation to you" (or $250k if that's a good figure). Live by the market, die by the market, Ron.

    But the fact of the matter is, none of us have any clue what the cashflow is from the site.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  27. #26

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    Comedy Central has picked up on this now.

    ht tp://www.indecisionforever.com/blog/2013/02/11/ron-paul-sends-black-helicopters-after-ronpaul-com
    Ron Paul Sends Black Helicopters After RonPaul.com



    On May 1, 2008, a group of Ron Paul supporters launched RonPaul.com, a website dedicated to promoting Ron Paul's political ambitions and, in the spirit of the free market, making a few doubloons for the site's proprietors.

    It was a lot like Ron Paul's newsletters, except with 100% fewer predictions of race riots and 50% more fawning over the good doctor's foreign policy views.

    But as of last week, there is trouble in anarcho-capitalist paradise.

    On February 7, an attorney for Paul filed a complaint with the World Intellectual Property Organization, an agency of the United Nations–an organization Ron Paul likes about as much as he likes the Federal Reserve–demanding control of the RonPaul.com domain.

    What's happening here? Is Paul becoming a statist who sends his supporters "off to a UN tribunal" as claimed by RonPaul.com? Will he now sell his books exclusively for Ameros?

    A few commenters on RonPaul.com stood by the site's owners:

    Rob Zulan: "Ron Paul, Don't become like Metallica alienate your fan base by trying to sieze RonPaul.com [sic]. Take the offer for the free domain name RonPaul.org and apologize to RonPaul.com. We don't expect you to be fully competent with Internet technology at your age, and maybe it's your lawyer who filed without your knowledge or understanding. God knows that lawyers are the scum of the earth. They don't understand how anything works and are the first to take action (cough… cough… Obama)."

    The chances of Paul becoming "like Metallica" are about as good as the man becoming president, and considering he signed an affidavit attached to the WIPO complaint, it's pretty clear that Paul knew what he was doing. Interestingly, most commenters who live in the 10% of the Internet dedicated to all things Ron Paul are supportive of their libertarian hero:

    Priscilla: "How could you people treat Ron Paul in such a way as this!! This is absolutely un- called for.You should be ashamed of your selves!!"

    Greedy: PLEASE GIVE UP THIS DOMAIN TO IT'S OWNER RON PAUL. COME ON! ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS? ARE YOU REALLY FOR PAUL OR JUST IN FOR THE MONEY?

    Chad: You've profited on someone else's name, appearance, and wealth. Now, you’re mad that RP is forced to go directly to the managing authority. I wish we could just settle it without government intervention, because you'd get the beat down you deserve. I would wish you luck, but I hope you lose… badly.

    Maybe it is ironic that Ron Paul is using the UN to grab a domain name from his supporters, but it's not as hypocritical as it seems. Anyone who registers a domain name agrees to abide by the rules set out by Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), a private non-profit that has designated the UN's WIPO as the arbiter of domain trademark disputes.

    In other words, anyone who registers a domain subjects themselves to a "UN tribunal."

    You'd just think that a bunch of libertarians could solve this with a shake of the invisible hand, rather than going through this arbitration nonsense.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    I agree, I just don't get it. I would think Ron would pay the fair market value of the site (hey if the guy is making $70,000 on it after fees/expenses, that's a decent living). Ron can't just expect the guy to say "oh okay, here's a $70k donation to you" (or $250k if that's a good figure). Live by the market, die by the market, Ron.

    But the fact of the matter is, none of us have any clue what the cashflow is from the site.
    And frankly, the guy should be able to ask whatever price he wants for it. He owns it.

  29. #28

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    I can't speak to what's happening right now with the contention for site ownership of RonPaul.com, but I will say that during the last election cycle the owner of that site did work with us promoting the moneybombs and some of the supporter projects on both the site he owns as well as through the social media pages he's set up on facebook, youtube videos, etc. Although it's true at time communication was intermittent he was responsive at least for me, for the most part, in terms of getting specific grassroots information out on the net.

    Seems to me although I agree that the domain should go to Ron Paul I think the guy who currently owns it should be compensated in some way, he did something not even Ron Paul's own staff did and that can not be overlooked.
    Last edited by orenbus; 02-11-2013 at 04:32 PM.
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    They'll never show you how much they make because then they will lose the 'grassroots support' because we will find out they make entirely way too much. There is a blatant reason why they left out their earnings from the 'letter' but instead talked about how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed. They figure if they can play to everybody's emotion, they'll look RP bad for trying to get the domain.
    RonPaulForums.com is ranked 47,097 according to Alexa.com

    RonPaul.com is ranked 125,220 according to Alexa

    That means this site gets almost 3 times as much traffic as RonPaul.com gets...so I doubt RonPaul.com is making more money than RPF
    Last edited by qh4dotcom; 02-11-2013 at 04:40 PM.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    I think the guy who currently owns it should be compensated in some way, he did something not even Ron Paul's own staff did and that can not be overlooked.
    Exactly

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