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Thread: Does Peter Schiff have similar competitors?

  1. #1

    Default Does Peter Schiff have similar competitors?

    Does Europac have any competitors that talk a similar game in regards to investing in Chinese assets?

    I'm curious about their commission fees because I have heard Peter is fairly high.



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  3. #2
    Member bxm042's Avatar
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    Maybe I was reading the performance reports wrong, but his mutual funds didn't seem to be doing very well... at all...

    Kyle Bass doesn't talk about China much, but he is a "competitor" you could say
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  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Maybe I was reading the performance reports wrong, but his mutual funds didn't seem to be doing very well... at all...

    Kyle Bass doesn't talk about China much, but he is a "competitor" you could say
    If things are down then it sounds like a good time to get in.

    Are there a lot of first-hand reports of upset Europac clients out there to read?

  5. #4

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    Unless you have millions of dollars or want to spend no time managing your money, I wouldn't go with Schiff or any other managers that take 1%+ each year. Remember to think about foreign tax withholdings if you are buying foreign stocks in an IRA.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubical View Post
    Unless you have millions of dollars or want to spend no time managing your money, I wouldn't go with Schiff or any other managers that take 1%+ each year. Remember to think about foreign tax withholdings if you are buying foreign stocks in an IRA.
    If the so-called "high-yield dividends" are 10%+ then 1% to let someone else manage doesn't sound too bad. I thought I heard his commissions are 10%. Which sounded like too much.

    I don't want to personally trade forex. I don't have time for it.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin69 View Post
    If the so-called "high-yield dividends" are 10%+ then 1% to let someone else manage doesn't sound too bad. I thought I heard his commissions are 10%. Which sounded like too much.

    I don't want to personally trade forex. I don't have time for it.
    I dont know his exact commissions, but they are high, especially compared to doing it yourself.

    There is nothing their brokers can do for you that you can't do yourself.

  8. #7

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    I believe there's a high minimum to even play ball with them, too.
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  9. #8

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    give them a call on Monday and ask i'm sure they will answer your questions

    i think it's 25k minimum with Schiff

  10. #9

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    So much speculation. No one seems to really know.

    Someone call and get the facts.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin69 View Post
    Does Europac have any competitors that talk a similar game in regards to investing in Chinese assets?

    I'm curious about their commission fees because I have heard Peter is fairly high.
    The higher those fees are...the more money he has to send to his father's jailors every April 15th.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by american.swan View Post
    So much speculation. No one seems to really know.

    Someone call and get the facts.
    I have called before. I think it was 3% off the top to buy a stock and I am not sure of the annual fees.

  13. #12
    Member Zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Haven't found any fees yet but did find this at his website:
    http://www.europac.net/services/mutual_funds
    For investors who desire diversification, convenience and active management, Euro Pacific Capital, through its affiliate Euro Pacific Asset Management, offers a series of mutual funds focused on different areas of the global investment marketplace. These funds may be particularly useful to investors who want to access Peter Schiff’s investment strategies, but do not qualify for the account minimums needed for our managed account platforms.

    For account minimums of $25,000, Euro Pacific brokers will structure portfolios of these mutual funds that are weighted to match a client’s individual investment profile.

    Investors with less than $25,000 can purchase these funds directly via the Funds’ websites (below). Minimum investment per fund is $2,500.
    Here is info on his International Value Fund:
    http://www.europac.net/sites/default...12_31_2012.pdf
    The gross and net expense ratios are 1.88% and 1.75%, respectively. The performance data quoted
    here represents past performance. Past performance does not guarantee future results. The investment
    return and principal will fluctuate, so that shares, when redeemed, may be worth more or less than their
    original cost. Current performance may be lower or higher than the performance information quoted.
    Investors may obtain performance information current to the most recent month-end, within 7 business
    days, by calling +1 (888) 558-5851. A redemption fee of 2.00% may be imposed on redemptions
    of shares you have owned for 30 days or less
    . Please see the prospectus for more information. The
    performance data reflects payment of the 4.50% maximum sales charge at the beginning of the stated
    periods.
    A 4.5% sales fee can be high- you can find no-fee funds in all categories. If you sent in $10,000, you are starting with $9,550 in your account. Then if you keep your money in for less than 30 days (changed your mind?- not likely for most people but reduces people moving in and out of a fund) you get another 2% fee. I would consider looking for index funds- they are low cost and low expense (expenses lower your returns). I have a couple with Vanguard but others like Fidelity offer them as well. These can be the lowest cost mutual funds you will find.

    That expense ration is above average as well.

    http://www.fool.com/school/mutualfunds/costs/ratios.htm
    The costs of owning a fund are called the expense ratio. (This is distinct from the costs of buying a fund, which are the sales loads which we describe here. The expense ratio represents the percentage of the fund's assets that go purely toward the expense of running the fund. The expense ratio covers the investment advisory fee, the administrative costs, 12b-1 distribution fees, and other operating expenses.

    The nifty thing about the expense ratio is that it wraps all these various costs and expenses into one number so that you don't have to do a lot of math. Currently the typical expense ratio for an actively managed mutual fund is about 1.5%, and that number has been going up lately. With an expense ratio of 1.5%, a mutual fund is cutting itself in on 1.5% of the total money in the fund every year. That's whether there's a good year or a bad year for the fund. Even if the stock market doesn't go up at all over the course of the year, the mutual fund will still pay itself 1.5% of the assets within the fund. With the trend being the way that it is, you as a potential or actual mutual fund investor should be aware that as time goes by, it is likely going to become more and more expensive to own an actively managed mutual fund.
    And the usual disclaimer about risks of international funds (from the Eurpopac link again):

    Foreign investments also present risks due to currency fluctuations,
    economic and political factors, lower liquidity, government regulations, differences in securities
    regulations and accounting standards, possible changes in taxation, limited public information and
    other factors. The risks are magnified in countries with emerging markets, since these countries may
    have relatively unstable governments and less established markets and economies. More information
    about these risks and others can be found in the fund’s prospectus.
    The link includes comparisons to an international stock index and indicates that the fund has underperformed compared to the index. (annualized returns since inception of April 7th, 2010 of 1.38% for the fund vs. 2.34% for the index- that is including fees: without including fees it did out-perform the index at 3.1% annualized returns but one should include fees when calculating actual performance for an investor).

    Expense ration on his East Asia fund is 2.34% http://www.europac.net/sites/default...12_31_2012.pdf

    China fund expense ratio is 2.0% http://www.europac.net/sites/default...12_31_2012.pdf

    All of his funds list a 4.5% sales fee.

    For a hypothetical example, let's make our $10,000 investment in his Chinese fund. It yields say a ten percent return. We had $9,550 and the ten percent would boost that to $10,505. Now the fund takes out their two percent expenses. Deduct $210 and you have $10,295. Instead of earning the ten percent, you only gained 2.9%. Now the initial purchase fee is one-time so its impact on your overall return goes down over time but does reduce the total amount of money you have working for you compared to not having that fee. He gets two percent of your money every year- even if the fund loses money.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-10-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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  14. #13
    Member Zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Pulled up a quick list of international funds run by Vanguard. Highest expense ration there is 0.59 percent and lowest is 0.12%. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/fun...InternatlStock They are no- load (sales fees) but still have the standard 2% early redemption fee (funds held less than 30 days). $3000 minimum.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-10-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Pulled up a quick list of international funds run by Vanguard. Highest expense ration there is 0.59 percent and lowest is 0.12%. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/fun...InternatlStock They are no- load (sales fees) but still have the standard 2% early redemption fee (funds held less than 30 days). $3000 minimum.
    Schwab's ETFs(or mutual funds) have even lower expense ratios than Vanguard. Not sure if you have to be a client or not.

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    Looking at my 401 k statement for last quarter , I pd .06 % admin fee.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubical View Post
    There is nothing their brokers can do for you that you can't do yourself.
    You make proper due diligence sound easy. It isn't. I don't have time to research what is good and what is shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by itshappening View Post
    give them a call on Monday and ask i'm sure they will answer your questions

    i think it's 25k minimum with Schiff
    I've tried talking to them in the past...they dance and dance so they never have to tell you. All I know is that the fees reduce the more assets you have managed by Europac. I could never get any solid numbers from the two different guys I've tried talking to. But they sure do love hearing themselves talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Looking at my 401 k statement for last quarter , I pd .06 % admin fee.
    Thanks for the info. That sounds very low. You must have a lot invested with him 'eh?

    There must have been other fees needed to get going?
    Last edited by muh_roads; 02-10-2013 at 09:24 PM.





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