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Thread: Do You Agree With White House that Drone Strikes are "Legal," "Ethical," and "Wise"?

  1. #1

    Do You Agree With White House that Drone Strikes are "Legal," "Ethical," and "Wise"?

    Once again, thanks for defending our freedoms, guys.

    Do You Agree With White House that Drone Strokes are "Legal," "Ethical," and "Wise"? You Shouldn't.
    http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/05/ob...y-drone-strike

    Jay Carney, the chief spokesman for the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize Winner, wants you to know that President Barack Obama's controversial use of drones isn't just sort-of borderline defensible. Nope:

    "These strikes are legal, they are ethical and they are wise," Carney said. The government takes "great care" when deciding where and whom to strike, he added.
    Read more here.

    How much care does the White House take in assessing who it wants to bomb (often in countries with which the U.S. is not officially at war)? So much care that it doesn't feel a need to get legal authorization from either the judicial or legislative branches of the federal government. And in case you want to rest easy that Obama has top men on it, here's a summary of the process written by NBC News' Michael Isikoff, who leaked the confidential memo the administration didn't want you to see:

    [T]he confidential Justice Department “white paper” introduces a more expansive definition of self-defense or imminent attack than described by Brennan or Holder in their public speeches. It refers, for example, to what it calls a “broader concept of imminence” than actual intelligence about any ongoing plot against the U.S. homeland.

    Instead, it says, an “informed, high-level” official of the U.S. government may determine that the targeted American has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of a violent attack and “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities.” The memo does not define “recently” or “activities.
    What else is in the news today regarding the most transparent administration in history? A report documenting that 54 countries around the globe have played along with the CIA when it comes to torturing suspects in such a way that the U.S. can pretend it doesn't do that sort of thing anymore.

    There is a darkly comic aspect to this, I suppose: Here's a president who once taught classes in constitutional law and swore up and down that America doesn't torture, that he was against "dumb wars" waged by his predecessors, that he was more transparent than a glass of triple-filtered water, and who won a goddamned Nobel Peace Prize! And he turns out to be not just a little iffy when it comes to being constrained in his willingness to break all sorts of rules but downright godawful.

    And his main mouthpiece is a former MSM drone whose babyface is quickly turning into a map of wrinkles brought on by working for an administration which has manifestly failed to live up to even the mediocre standards of the previous occupant of the White House.

    If it wasn't for all the dead people scattered around the nations of the world, the incursions into basic rights of Americans, the torturing of innocents along with the occasional interrogation of actual terrorists, and the failure to accomplish much of anything other than adding to the store of human misery and suffering around, this all would be worth a few bitter laughs.

    But it's not.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  3. #2
    short answer no... long answer hell no.

  4. #3
    No. No, I don't.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  5. #4
    "These strikes are legal, they are ethical and they are wise," Carney said. The government takes "great care" when deciding where and whom to strike, he added.
    Bull$#@!, Carney.

    Let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution. -- Thomas Jefferson
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  6. #5

  7. #6
    No. No. And no.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  8. #7
    and again the nobel "peace prize" is tarnished further.

    I keep hoping Jimmy Carter will spout off on this.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    This morning the "Morning Joe" crew excused Obama's drone/Gitmo reversal along the lines of:

    When Obama was campaigning against these policies he had not yet been privy to all the details of just how important these policies are. So yeah, of course he waffled because national security demanded it -he stepped up, met the challenge, and made the hard decision to waffle.

    Well of course.

    As to the Op's question: No.
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

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  11. #9
    yes , yes and hell yes.... now let me plain it. Obummer has contact swith Al Ciada, and he needs to get the first shot.

  12. #10
    There is a darkly comic aspect to this, I suppose: Here's a president who once taught classes in constitutional law and swore up and down that America doesn't torture, that he was against "dumb wars" waged by his predecessors, that he was more transparent than a glass of triple-filtered water, and who won a goddamned Nobel Peace Prize! And he turns out to be not just a little iffy when it comes to being constrained in his willingness to break all sorts of rules but downright godawful.

  13. #11
    The government takes "great care" when deciding where and whom to strike, he added.
    Oh thank thee, O wise and powerful overlords. We thank thee that thou taketh great care to decide when and where to strike.

  14. #12
    It is going to get much worse.

    This is just the ground work.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It is going to get much worse.

    This is just the ground work.

    This.

    I think there are many, even among us, who should know better, that do not comprehend, fully, where this is all going.

    This will get out of control, and we'll be lucky if any of us live through it.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This.

    I think there are many, even among us, who should know better, that do not comprehend, fully, where this is all going.

    This will get out of control, and we'll be lucky if any of us live through it.
    Have you thought about camouflage for your minivan?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  17. #15
    Do You Agree
    Oh, and of course I don't "agree".

    My agreement or not is meaningless at this point.

    I have long ago withdrawn my consent to be governed by this monstrosity.

    And the beast does not care if it has my consent.

    Which, of course, makes it illegitimate.

    Which nobody cares about either.

  18. #16
    You should hide yoru IP address. They might make you out to be a terroist and "drone" you.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This.

    I think there are many, even among us, who should know better, that do not comprehend, fully, where this is all going.

    This will get out of control, and we'll be lucky if any of us live through it.
    I guess the hope would be that it still (as of now) takes drone drivers. So they can't kill everybody!!!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Have you thought about camouflage for your minivan?
    Already done.

    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  22. #19
    Drones are A-moral. It is wrong to murder always.
    Inactive

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    Party: Libertarian (since registration) / Religion: none (Ignostic)

    “If while on your way you meet no one your equal or better, steadily continue on your way alone. There is no fellowship with fools.”
    ― Dhammapada, v. 61

    "Asking why there are no Libertarian countries is akin to asking why there are no Atheist Theocracies." - #AncapJackal

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This.

    I think there are many, even among us, who should know better, that do not comprehend, fully, where this is all going.

    This will get out of control, and we'll be lucky if any of us live through it.
    Some will, but it will be truly harrowing. Some think they will get out of it (the "Rapture") They are going to be really butthurt.
    I believe that will be the "great falling away" spoken of.

    This can not be stopped by elections,, or by battle nor even by prayer. It is coming.

    Steel yourselves.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Oh thank thee, O wise and powerful overlords. We thank thee that thou taketh great care to decide when and where to strike.
    just peachy isn't it? The depths of their ineptness is staggering and constantly given as a reason for why we should doubt a greater conspiracy to be effective and yet we should trust them to be able to wisely choose without oversight who should be allowed to live or die.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It is going to get much worse.

    This is just the ground work.

    I fear you are completely right.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  25. #22

  26. #23
    No. As replying to these kinds of issues just seems to lead to other issues, and as all these issues combined seem to work together to threaten the U.S. Constitution, I'd rather not comment.

  27. #24
    Unconstitutional acts of war are treasonous.

    End of discussion.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenB4Liberty View Post
    Not surprised.
    Okay, understand, as the political situation exists today, there is no such thing as winning regarding the disadvantaged as tyranny never loses. In other words, as the disadvantaged majority, the people don't want to win, as that isn't possible, but they want to be victorious by gaining control over tyranny. With this in mind, once again, as Americans, here is how we should respond to issues.

    Not only should we narrow down, as adults, to common ground, but we should always narrow to our Founders. To do so, I've developed a new American spectrum. This spectrum advances the old one developed by Aristotle by first placing all citizens of the United States in the middle as moderates, by second adding an enthroned king at one end of the spectrum as one extreme, and, finally, by third placing a homeless prostitute to the other end of it as another extreme.

    In other words, this isn't a matter concerning my personal opinion. When addressing an issue, rather then internalizing into a bunch of crap, I'm thinking about the issue in regards to how it relates to an enthroned king on one end and a homeless prostitute on the other. With this being a logical method that is existential, politically speaking, my thinking is controlled by a rational truth engine - a method which is American.

    We are talking about an American Movement here and not the political electoral process.

    Concerning this issue, socialism will surely benefit the king because tyranny never loses. Even Ron Paul would admit that he will be thought of positively going down in history as someone who was a winner who did rather well for himself financially. So, tyranny always wins, while the people always lose. But the people at times are victorious concerning the greater overall conflict, that one which has been happening forever, with this being the one true dichotomy over all others, between a tyranny of a few and that of a disadvantaged majority.

    Again, concerning any and all types of governments, the commoners will always come out the loser. However, they do win from time to time in their quest to gain control over tyranny. This is what the king doesn't want us to know. As a drunkard, he doesn't want to sober up. In doing so, he will realize how he is the one who has been relegated to a borrower to serve as a necessary tyrant as the homeless prostitute, the representative of the commoner people, by natural law, is the true owner of all property and wealth.
    Last edited by Uncle Emanuel Watkins; 02-05-2013 at 07:56 PM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Unconstitutional acts of war are treasonous.

    End of discussion.
    This was true as your neighbors in Waco were being rolled over by Federalists. Where were you and me? When that young man posted as a watchman on that tower was shot dead by tyranny, where were we? Even then, unconstitutional acts of war were treasonous. Indeed, there needs to be something more than threats of rational thought to sober up these treasonous cowards. We need to be empowered and envisioned. Then tyranny will stand down, as he and she will realize that the people will bypass those brave ones they have set up as guards around themselves, as we will be going straight for their throats.
    First, it would help us immensely by dividing the brave ones from the cowards. The cowards are the ones hiding behind a line of defense made up by the brave ones.
    Well, that was easy.
    Last edited by Uncle Emanuel Watkins; 02-05-2013 at 08:54 PM.

  31. #27
    blast from the past. trump has had us
    drop bigger better and more expensive
    b..........o..........m..........b..............s



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