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Thread: How should the US respond to sanctions?

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  1. #1

    How should the US respond to sanctions?

    Sanctions = act of war

    How should we respond when another country imposes sanctions on us?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88Q0MG20120927

    EU seeks $12 billion trade sanctions on U.S. in Boeing row

    The European Union on Thursday asked the World Trade Organization for the right to impose trade sanctions worth up to $12 billion annually on the United States in retaliation for illegal U.S. subsidies to planemaker Boeing.

    The request, which is the largest penalty ever sought from the WTO, is the latest legal move in what is the world's biggest trade dispute and one of the longest.



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  3. #2
    Stop bailing out Euro banks for starters!

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SpreadOfLiberty View Post
    Stop bailing out Euro banks for starters!
    +rep

    /threadwinner

  5. #4
    Withdraw all troops from Europe and close down the bases. Their presence there is a subsidy and is both unneeded and apparently unwelcome.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Withdraw all troops from Europe and close down the bases. Their presence there is a subsidy and is both unneeded and apparently unwelcome.
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?
    Something I have been trying to stress: All foreign policy situations require different responses!

    But we do need to have plans thought out for all kinds of scenarios, as most usually encompass bits and pieces of others.

    It is not as simple as "always stay out" or "always bomb them".

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?
    Ignore them. One country sanctioning us is really nothing. I guess the next thing is you'll ask me what to do if they convince other nations to join their sanction...

    If so; lead by example and the market will discourage such a thing. People usually don't want to commit suicide by acting against their own interests.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Ignore them. One country sanctioning us is really nothing. I guess the next thing is you'll ask me what to do if they convince other nations to join their sanction...
    Do you believe sanctions are an act of war? If yes, why would you ignore an act of war?



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  11. #9
    It depends on the sanctions and the effect it would have. If it would devastate our economy and the sanctions were designed to hurt our defenses to make us ripe for take over, there is only one right response, the destruction of those that seek to take us over.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Do you believe sanctions are an act of war? If yes, why would you ignore an act of war?
    Respond with Sanction war?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Do you believe sanctions are an act of war? If yes, why would you ignore an act of war?
    No they aren't an act of war; going by what the common definition of war is. They are an act of aggression that can be dealt with peacefully.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?
    Your loss.
    If the entire world imposes sanctions on the US?
    American made goods will become common again.
    Best of luck in life.

  15. #13
    A sanction is a hostile action that leads its victims to become more independent and possibly more likely to do business more with others that don't sanction. (that's why sanctions are not profitable) But to claim a sanction to be completely unjust is to claim the production, of whomever is sanctioning you, as your own. We don't own those people's wealth or production. It is their choice to do business with us.
    Last edited by fr33; 02-03-2013 at 11:51 PM.

  16. #14
    A government forces a business to stop doing business with a country that it wants to sanction. The sanctioned country does not want to attack the business, they are friendly, it's the government forcing the business.

  17. #15
    New Zealand won't let US Military vessels visit because they won't declare whether they are carrying nukes or not.

    The US has responded with broad economic sanctions. Not particularly bad ones, but yeah the US likes to get its own way.



    Well, that's the story. A Free trade agreement would require the US to end subsidies to farmers as New Zealand stopped subsidies ages ago.

    So that's not going to happen.
    Last edited by idiom; 02-04-2013 at 12:13 AM.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  18. #16
    It's important to remember that sanctions, in this context, amount to import taxes, which harm the domestic consumer. US consumers benefit from EU tax subsidies to Airbus, just as EU customers benefit from US subsidies to Boeing. When the EU imposes sanctions on goods imported from the US, it is harming itself. Retaliating in kind would be the height of stupidity.

    Trade sanctions, when they consist of a blockade, are an act of war. Trade sanctions in the form of import taxes are only an act of violence in the same way as any other taxes.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by enoch150 View Post
    Trade sanctions, when they consist of a blockade, are an act of war.
    So what should the proper response be if a powerful country prevents US citizens from purchasing or selling products to their country?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    So what should the proper response be if a powerful country prevents US citizens from purchasing or selling products to their country?
    Let that country suffer the consequences of its own self-defeating policy.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Let that country suffer the consequences of its own self-defeating policy.
    Now getting to a specific example, should the Iranians not care about our sanctions then?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Now getting to a specific example, should the Iranians not care about our sanctions then?
    Care is an emotion. For their own sake they shouldn't retaliate in any ways that wouldn't be good for them to do in the first place. And it may well be the case that the best thing they could do would be to give into the demands that the sanctions are there for. I don't know what all that would involve, but it's probably mostly things they'd be better off doing anyway. They just shouldn't have their arms twisted by some foreign government telling them, "We know what's good for you better than you do."

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    So what should the proper response be if a powerful country prevents US citizens from purchasing or selling products to their country?
    It depends. Prevents how? Or rather: prevents where?

    If it attempts to use force to impose such restrictions outside of its own borders, then that would be an act of war.

    If it attempts to use force to impose such restrictions inside of its own borders, then that would be an internal matter, and would not be an act of war.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    If it attempts to use force to impose such restrictions outside of its own borders, then that would be an act of war.

    If it attempts to use force to impose such restrictions inside of its own borders, then that would be an internal matter, and would not be an act of war.
    How would you characterize our sanctions on Iran then? Trade is a two way street so I don't understand why it would matter if restrictions were on the outside or inside unless you are talking about a military blockade right outside another country.

  26. #23
    How should the US respond to sanctions?
    That's an easy question. The tried and true international response is usually... blowback.

    In the case of a superpower like the USA responding to sanctions, typical asymmetric warfare roles are reversed and need not apply. Why dance around with prolonged economic heckling that might take decades to resolve when the enemy could just be physically obliterated and history books re-written as necessary? (Then again, maybe a peaceful solution would be required in case another superpower was the opponent!)


  27. #24
    The article says the sanctions are because of the government giving Boeing subsidies.

    The response of our government to this should be to stop giving Boeing subsidies.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    The article says the sanctions are because of the government giving Boeing subsidies.

    The response of our government to this should be to stop giving Boeing subsidies.
    The article was just an example. I was looking for a more philosophical response rather than a response to a specific situation.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    The article was just an example. I was looking for a more philosophical response rather than a response to a specific situation.
    More generally, I would say that the federal government should not respond to them unless its response is something that it ought to do anyway.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Sanctions = act of war
    Please quit repeating this, they are NOT an act of war, unless the country they are being imposed on considers it an act of war.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Please quit repeating this, they are NOT an act of war, unless the country they are being imposed on considers it an act of war.
    What's your basis for saying this?

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What's your basis for saying this?
    Research on international law. Search the forums for some of my posts that say "sanctions are not an act of war" and you'll see it documented and such.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Research on international law. Search the forums for some of my posts that say "sanctions are not an act of war" and you'll see it documented and such.
    Is there some reason we should treat "international law" as authoritative on this matter?

    In my eyes, saying, "X is not an act of war," and saying, "according to international law, X is not an act of war," are two different things.
    Last edited by erowe1; 02-05-2013 at 11:13 AM.

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