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Thread: How should the US respond to sanctions?

  1. #1

    Default How should the US respond to sanctions?

    Sanctions = act of war

    How should we respond when another country imposes sanctions on us?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88Q0MG20120927

    EU seeks $12 billion trade sanctions on U.S. in Boeing row

    The European Union on Thursday asked the World Trade Organization for the right to impose trade sanctions worth up to $12 billion annually on the United States in retaliation for illegal U.S. subsidies to planemaker Boeing.

    The request, which is the largest penalty ever sought from the WTO, is the latest legal move in what is the world's biggest trade dispute and one of the longest.



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  3. #2

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    Stop bailing out Euro banks for starters!

  4. #3
    Member fr33's Avatar
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    Withdraw all troops from Europe and close down the bases. Their presence there is a subsidy and is both unneeded and apparently unwelcome.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Withdraw all troops from Europe and close down the bases. Their presence there is a subsidy and is both unneeded and apparently unwelcome.
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?
    Something I have been trying to stress: All foreign policy situations require different responses!

    But we do need to have plans thought out for all kinds of scenarios, as most usually encompass bits and pieces of others.

    It is not as simple as "always stay out" or "always bomb them".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Ok pretend a made up country that we have no relationship with imposes sanctions on us. What is the right response?
    Ignore them. One country sanctioning us is really nothing. I guess the next thing is you'll ask me what to do if they convince other nations to join their sanction...

    If so; lead by example and the market will discourage such a thing. People usually don't want to commit suicide by acting against their own interests.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Ignore them. One country sanctioning us is really nothing. I guess the next thing is you'll ask me what to do if they convince other nations to join their sanction...
    Do you believe sanctions are an act of war? If yes, why would you ignore an act of war?

  9. #8

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    It depends on the sanctions and the effect it would have. If it would devastate our economy and the sanctions were designed to hurt our defenses to make us ripe for take over, there is only one right response, the destruction of those that seek to take us over.

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    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyJ View Post
    It depends on the sanctions and the effect it would have. If it would devastate our economy and the sanctions were designed to hurt our defenses to make us ripe for take over, there is only one right response, the destruction of those that seek to take us over.
    Reaction in-kind or better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Do you believe sanctions are an act of war? If yes, why would you ignore an act of war?
    Respond with Sanction war?

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyJ View Post
    It depends on the sanctions and the effect it would have. If it would devastate our economy and the sanctions were designed to hurt our defenses to make us ripe for take over, there is only one right response, the destruction of those that seek to take us over.
    So if our sanctions on Iran were imposed on us, do you think military action would be justified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    So if our sanctions on Iran were imposed on us, do you think military action would be justified?
    I think it depends. Iran is trading with others that will trade. They also don't have the power (maybe) to strike. It's like a little guy attacking a big bullie. Now, if the little guy has a gun, then it might even it out a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Do you believe sanctions are an act of war? If yes, why would you ignore an act of war?
    No they aren't an act of war; going by what the common definition of war is. They are an act of aggression that can be dealt with peacefully.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    No they aren't an act of war; going by what the common definition of war is. They are an act of aggression that can be dealt with peacefully.
    Well if you don't believe sanctions are an act of war then I agree with you. I guess I'm looking for answers then from those who do believe sanctions are an act of war.

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    A sanction is a hostile action that leads its victims to become more independent and possibly more likely to do business more with others that don't sanction. (that's why sanctions are not profitable) But to claim a sanction to be completely unjust is to claim the production, of whomever is sanctioning you, as your own. We don't own those people's wealth or production. It is their choice to do business with us.
    Last edited by fr33; 02-03-2013 at 10:51 PM.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyJ View Post
    It depends on the sanctions and the effect it would have. If it would devastate our economy and the sanctions were designed to hurt our defenses to make us ripe for take over, there is only one right response, the destruction of those that seek to take us over.
    It amazes me some people don't see it this way. (I believe you hit the nail on the head on how our sanctions affect a nation) Someone previously stated that it may depend on whether or not they 'convince' (extort, 'persuade') other nations not to trade may affect the perception of whether or not they are acts of war. It very well might, but rest assured should we be sanctioned as countries we have sanctioned have been (not a possibility, with current situations I know) we would probably declare a war.
    I call the bottom bunk at Gitmo, Snowden joked as he contemplated our prospects.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    but rest assured should we be sanctioned as countries we have sanctioned have been (not a possibility, with current situations I know) we would probably declare a war.
    So I ask if our sanctions on Iran were instead imposed on us, do you think military action in that country is justified? If so, who or what exactly do you attack/destroy?

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Respond with Sanction war?
    Do you not see the difference between us imposing sanctions on a particular country while using political leverage and foreign aid to 'persuade' other countries to do the same and a small (sovereign, I would like to remind) nation imposing sanctions on us? I need not Rand Paul explanations on sanctions. They further encourage aggression, (which otherwise may have been simmered down through diplomacy) they strengthen the country's political class by way of people relying more on them for everyday necessities as well as through a sense of false nationalism, they ultimately lead to the deaths of many; mainly the elderly and children, they breed blowback from said impoverished kids who grow up fed the opposite of American exceptionalism. (books we may well have supplied, I might add) Simply, it is a foolish foreign policy. The effects are great and not often seen for a period of time.


    ETA: Not to mention that Iran is not seeking nuclear warfare capabilities. They are part of the NPT and they have purposes for their admitted nuclear activities. (medical radioisotopes, energy etc.) Also, you can't prove a negative. They say they don't have WMDs, we say they do. What, do we have to invade Iran to determine definitively one way or the other? Yellow cake Uranium rings a bell.

    It aint our damn business if they were concentrating U235 for weaponry anyways. Israel is more than capable. The propaganda runs deep... and I'm very much getting tired of debunking it.
    I call the bottom bunk at Gitmo, Snowden joked as he contemplated our prospects.

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    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    A government forces a business to stop doing business with a country that it wants to sanction. The sanctioned country does not want to attack the business, they are friendly, it's the government forcing the business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Do you not see the difference between us imposing sanctions on a particular country while using political leverage and foreign aid to 'persuade' other countries to do the same and a small (sovereign, I would like to remind) nation imposing sanctions on us? I need not Rand Paul explanations on sanctions. They further encourage aggression, (which otherwise may have been simmered down through diplomacy) they strengthen the country's political class by way of people relying more on them for everyday necessities as well as through a sense of false nationalism, they ultimately lead to the deaths of many; mainly the elderly and children, they breed blowback from said impoverished kids who grow up fed the opposite of American exceptionalism. (books we may well have supplied, I might add) Simply, it is a foolish foreign policy. The effects are great and not often seen for a period of time.


    ETA: Not to mention that Iran is not seeking nuclear warfare capabilities. They are part of the NPT and they have purposes for their admitted nuclear activities. (medical radioisotopes, energy etc.) Also, you can't prove a negative. They say they don't have WMDs, we say they do. What, do we have to invade Iran to determine definitively one way or the other? Yellow cake Uranium rings a bell.

    It aint our damn business if they were concentrating U235 for weaponry anyways. Israel is more than capable. The propaganda runs deep... and I'm very much getting tired of debunking it.
    ah, don't bite. I'm in agreement

    edit: My response was to, what should we do if someone did it to us. Not what devastation we are doing as the big bully.
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 02-03-2013 at 11:08 PM.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    So I ask if our sanctions on Iran were instead imposed on us, do you think military action in that country is justified? If so, who or what exactly do you attack/destroy?
    I not only think our military response is justifiable (not to be confused with justified, depending on what the circumstances truly are) I think it would occur before the ink on the sanctions dries. Who would we attack? For starters those who imposed said sanctions. It is hard to compare apples to oranges. We are a global superpower. No one can impose the kind of leverage like we do with regards to other countries joining our sanction demands. Especially not Iran.

    ETA: I am not trying to be antagonistic if my posts come off that way. My apologies if I do.
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 02-03-2013 at 11:11 PM.
    I call the bottom bunk at Gitmo, Snowden joked as he contemplated our prospects.

  23. #22

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    New Zealand won't let US Military vessels visit because they won't declare whether they are carrying nukes or not.

    The US has responded with broad economic sanctions. Not particularly bad ones, but yeah the US likes to get its own way.



    Well, that's the story. A Free trade agreement would require the US to end subsidies to farmers as New Zealand stopped subsidies ages ago.

    So that's not going to happen.
    Last edited by idiom; 02-03-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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    It's important to remember that sanctions, in this context, amount to import taxes, which harm the domestic consumer. US consumers benefit from EU tax subsidies to Airbus, just as EU customers benefit from US subsidies to Boeing. When the EU imposes sanctions on goods imported from the US, it is harming itself. Retaliating in kind would be the height of stupidity.

    Trade sanctions, when they consist of a blockade, are an act of war. Trade sanctions in the form of import taxes are only an act of violence in the same way as any other taxes.

  25. #24

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    How should the US respond to sanctions?
    That's an easy question. The tried and true international response is usually... blowback.

    In the case of a superpower like the USA responding to sanctions, typical asymmetric warfare roles are reversed and need not apply. Why dance around with prolonged economic heckling that might take decades to resolve when the enemy could just be physically obliterated and history books re-written as necessary? (Then again, maybe a peaceful solution would be required in case another superpower was the opponent!)


  26. #25

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    The article says the sanctions are because of the government giving Boeing subsidies.

    The response of our government to this should be to stop giving Boeing subsidies.
    Im not a libertarian. Im not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    The article says the sanctions are because of the government giving Boeing subsidies.

    The response of our government to this should be to stop giving Boeing subsidies.
    The article was just an example. I was looking for a more philosophical response rather than a response to a specific situation.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by enoch150 View Post
    Trade sanctions, when they consist of a blockade, are an act of war.
    So what should the proper response be if a powerful country prevents US citizens from purchasing or selling products to their country?

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    The article was just an example. I was looking for a more philosophical response rather than a response to a specific situation.
    More generally, I would say that the federal government should not respond to them unless its response is something that it ought to do anyway.
    Im not a libertarian. Im not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    So what should the proper response be if a powerful country prevents US citizens from purchasing or selling products to their country?
    Let that country suffer the consequences of its own self-defeating policy.
    Im not a libertarian. Im not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsai3904 View Post
    Sanctions = act of war
    Please quit repeating this, they are NOT an act of war, unless the country they are being imposed on considers it an act of war.
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