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Thread: Hundreds of thousands of Master's degree holders, PhDs on food stamps

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    No, why would I be? I want government COMPLETELY OUT OF LOANS. no bankruptcy, no special rules, nobody is forced to loan anybody, let lenders make their own risk determination, just enforce contracts.



    Weren't you arguing for letting debts discharge via bankruptcy (which is, in effect, forcing the lender to forgive a debt)? How is that letting 2 sides duke it out themselves?

    You seem to be lumping governments role in lending/collecting money right in with their role as civil court administrators..

    Bankruptcy law is strictly a civil matter and as such is under the courts jurisdiction, changing the bankruptcy laws is in my opinion a totally separate issue.

    The only reason I brought up bankruptcy in relation to student loans is because of the recent laws that prohibit discharge. A student loan should be just as risky to the lender as any other unsecured loan and it should carry the appropriate interest rate to reflect the risk.

    I could get behind repealing many of the recent changes to the bankruptcy code, but if there is going to be a bankruptcy code at all then student loans should be able to be discharged like any other debt.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    You seem to be lumping governments role in lending/collecting money right in with their role as civil court administrators..

    yes, I am, since I want government out of it all.

    Bankruptcy law is strictly a civil matter and as such is under the courts jurisdiction, changing the bankruptcy laws is in my opinion a totally separate issue.
    Strictly civil in that the government isn't a party and the claimant isn't a criminal. But not "strictly between 2 parties" if the government can tell one side to $#@! off and tell the other side to walk away and smile. If that were the case, they wouldn't need a court, one guy can find a better way to make his creditor happy. Bankruptcy court is for people who want to use government force to $#@! over the creditor (bail himself out).

    The only reason I brought up bankruptcy in relation to student loans is because of the recent laws that prohibit discharge.
    Yes, I understand. And I want all debts to be undischargable, and all contracts to be enforceable unless they are fraudulent. And I want no bankruptcy courts.

    A student loan should be just as risky to the lender as any other unsecured loan and it should carry the appropriate interest rate to reflect the risk.

    I could get behind repealing many of the recent changes to the bankruptcy code, but if there is going to be a bankruptcy code at all then student loans should be able to be discharged like any other debt.
    I'm on the other side, I want bankruptcy to disappear. I want no debts to be dischargable. Your position is essentially "if we're wrong on one thing, we should be consistently wrong to be fair"

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Why is letting their kids go to college a good thing if they made a decent living not going to college?
    Because the way it used to work was that college was the way into the managerial world, or it was the way to actually learn how to manage a family business. In my family, that's what was done on my paternal grandmother's side. On my paternal grandfather's side, it was my great-great grandfather building boats in Sweden, to my great-great grandfather being a tool and die manufacturer, to my grandfather going to college for engineering and business to start a business selling machines to engineering firms. My uncle took over the business and my father became an accountant.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Yes, today kids are stupid enough to think they're too good for blue collar jobs, and rather be in debt, the attitude is dangerous and they deserve to be slapped for it.
    Glad we agree.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Well, people who are stupid enough to be in debt rather than work blue collar jobs aren't exactly smarter either. Sounds like your problem is with people's arrogance, not with their stupidity. You want people to humble themselves and get their hands dirty so you feel safer, are you a blue collar worker? If not, why not?

    Is it possible that rather than "high IQ goes to college, low IQ take blue collar jobs", people are just all overall dumber today?
    I do agree that people seem to be dumber today. I read e-mails and documents prepared by so-called college graduates, and am amazed at the lack of grammar and writing ability.

    I am not a blue collar worker. Not that I wish I was, but I am a bit upset that my father was not able to pass any skills down to me about basic auto mechanics or home repair because he never had it passed down to him. I feel stupid that I can't repair my downstairs bathroom (take out and replace the sink, refloor it, and take out and replace the toilet). I probably CAN do it, but I'm afraid I'm going to flood the house and do more in damages than just paying someone to do it would cost. At times I wish I had some of the skills that some of my non-college prep peers had in high school.
    "You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness." -- Ronald Reagan, 1964



  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    It's becoming true again today. Today, any job is better than no job for those who can't or don't want government assistance. Those who think they're too good for dirty work will keep sitting on their asses until you starve them or whip them for not paying their debt. (and somebody wants to let these people off with bankruptcy)

    As the person who argues for student debt being able to be discharged under bankruptcy, I also argue to eliminate every other form of government welfare, no housing, no food-stamps etc..

    I don't want the federal government involved in any of it other than their constitutionally proscribed role as civil court administrator.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Btw... thank you for the laugh.

    "Oh they're willing to work for $28/hour!"

    That sucks, but you pointed out some interesting things. A family with kids and a mortgage and car loans to pay and credit cards and gadgets and $100/mo towards a mobile plan and another $100/mo towards cable/sat and eating out at least once a week... nope, they can't live off of that. Not even close. Not even in the cheaper areas of the nation. If you trim that down to what's needed, and don't have a family until you're in decent financial shape, and don't live in a high-cost area, $58,000+ doesn't sound too impoverished to me.
    Yes, but when the salary those jobs were nearly double that, and plans were made based upon THAT salary (not even expecting raises), it's not really possible to take a 50% pay cut without serious lifestyle changes which may affect their children's futures (example here in Charlotte, putting your kid in the public schools is a death sentence - and don't start on homeschooling because if two parents work, it's not possible). Problem also, is that many of the jobs I'm talking about are not exactly available in lower cost areas of the country if you want to ever move up. And, in these jobs, you do need a mobile plan which is reliable.
    "You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness." -- Ronald Reagan, 1964



  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    yes, I am, since I want government out of it all.

    I too want government out of it all, all that isn't spelled out in the constitution..


    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    I'm on the other side, I want bankruptcy to disappear. I want no debts to be dischargable. Your position is essentially "if we're wrong on one thing, we should be consistently wrong to be fair"
    Don't attribute things to me I didn't type there Ace......

    Fairness has nothing to do with it........

    I can see some instances where bankruptcy could be acceptable, very few, but some...

    Laws would have to be repealed and rewritten in order to prevent gaming the system...........Study a bit on trust law for an eye opener..

    The whole legal system is almost as big a mess as government but tax-dollars pay for government, litigants foot their own bills in civil court.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    Because the way it used to work was that college was the way into the managerial world, or it was the way to actually learn how to manage a family business. In my family, that's what was done on my paternal grandmother's side. On my paternal grandfather's side, it was my great-great grandfather building boats in Sweden, to my great-great grandfather being a tool and die manufacturer, to my grandfather going to college for engineering and business to start a business selling machines to engineering firms. My uncle took over the business and my father became an accountant.
    Aren't you admitting that going to college made life better? Or only when the market favors it?

    Glad we agree.

    I do agree that people seem to be dumber today. I read e-mails and documents prepared by so-called college graduates, and am amazed at the lack of grammar and writing ability.

    I am not a blue collar worker. Not that I wish I was
    You don't wish you were a blue collar worker? Then you're partially responsible for leaving those jobs to idiots, aren't you? I am too, but I am not complaining. I am glad there are people happy to do them and I know enough people who are both decent and smart.

    , but I am a bit upset that my father was not able to pass any skills down to me about basic auto mechanics or home repair because he never had it passed down to him. I feel stupid that I can't repair my downstairs bathroom (take out and replace the sink, refloor it, and take out and replace the toilet). I probably CAN do it, but I'm afraid I'm going to flood the house and do more in damages than just paying someone to do it would cost. At times I wish I had some of the skills that some of my non-college prep peers had in high school.
    So you obviously know why you don't care to fix it yourself, basic cost benefit analysis. You know that the people fixing your bathroom, while stupid, isn't stupid enough to flood up your house and do more damage than you would. Having skills to do things is great, so I don't think its either nice or fair to say blue collar jobs are taken up by idiots, they're the people who make our lives easier, they are not, by any means equal value to a doctor, lawyer or architecht, but when you need them, you'll know how much they're worth.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    Yes, but when the salary those jobs were nearly double that, and plans were made based upon THAT salary

    please feel sorry for me for getting suckered into a lifestyle I had no guarantee of maintaining. I refused to learn from my parents or grandparents because I'm too smart for that.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    it's not really possible to take a 50% pay cut without serious lifestyle changes which may affect their children's futures
    serious lifestyle changes isn't synonymous with dying, so it's possible.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    serious lifestyle changes isn't synonymous with dying, so it's possible.
    This is the attitude that will turn these United States into a third-world nation.

    And that attitude that thinks it's okay is why I am not a full-bore libertarian.
    "You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness." -- Ronald Reagan, 1964



  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Aren't you admitting that going to college made life better? Or only when the market favors it?
    Of course it did. It did for almost EVERYBODY since the founding of the nation until sometime in the 1990's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    You don't wish you were a blue collar worker? Then you're partially responsible for leaving those jobs to idiots, aren't you? I am too, but I am not complaining. I am glad there are people happy to do them and I know enough people who are both decent and smart.
    That's a complete strawman argument. There are still plenty of skilled tradesmen out there who are older and do quality work. The issue here are the people 30 and under who think they HAVE to go to college or they'll "work" in a trade. Funny thing is, most of the younger guys who've come to do work screw it up, and the company owner has to come fix the damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    So you obviously know why you don't care to fix it yourself, basic cost benefit analysis. You know that the people fixing your bathroom, while stupid, isn't stupid enough to flood up your house and do more damage than you would. Having skills to do things is great, so I don't think its either nice or fair to say blue collar jobs are taken up by idiots, they're the people who make our lives easier, they are not, by any means equal value to a doctor, lawyer or architecht, but when you need them, you'll know how much they're worth.
    I NEVER said ALL blue collar jobs are taken by idiots. All I said were younger people not in college or having gone to college who are in trades who are under 30 tend to be less skilled, less motivated, and tend to do a crappy job.

    You certainly have a way with putting words in people's mouths.
    "You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness." -- Ronald Reagan, 1964



  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    This is the attitude that will turn these United States into a third-world nation.

    And that attitude that thinks it's okay is why I am not a full-bore libertarian.
    Lmao. I dont care if you are a libertarian, but you think living in your means will turn us into a third world nation? Try the alternative



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Lmao. I dont care if you are a libertarian, but you think living in your means will turn us into a third world nation? Try the alternative
    If you lived within your means at $100k for multiple years, why are you blasting that person for saying that living on $58k becomes almost impossible?

    I don't get it, a responsible person becomes irresponsible?

    I don't understand why a person who put over 20% down on a mortgage with a reasonable payment based on a $100k salary is suddenly irresponsible.

    I don't understand why a person who wishes to put their child in private school (which I thought was all the rage around here) cannot because of a salary slash is now irresponsible.

    I guess when a person was making $100k a year they're supposed to live like they're on food stamps...got it.
    "You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness." -- Ronald Reagan, 1964



  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyJ View Post
    I will give you the answer I think to be the correct one, however I am only going on my personal experience and reading the damn news about this for the last 20 plus years! So of course I may not be qualified to give a good answer on this.

    Out-sourcing and in-sourcing. That's it, I could go into to details about it, but don't desire to do so right now. Most of the jobs are still at these companies, they just prefer to not hire Americans.
    Diversity plays a part in it too. I was at one company whose goal was diversity and they placed hiring foreigners to come here ahead of Americans who are already here.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Red Leg View Post
    Yea, that kind of $#@!s those of us who are not good at advanced mathematics or hard sciences....
    There just aren't that many companies out there centered around humanities and social sciences (at least not by comparison). Colleges are just meeting demands by offering the degrees... it's the students who need to do the research to determine if they're in a degree program that won't have a return on investment. I used to be in the crowd that said, "Study what you love." Now I'm of the mindset that this is ridiculous, and you should study whatever you can tolerate that will get you employed or just not go at all.

    A big problem now is that too many people are going to college that shouldn't be. The world needs a working labor class, tradesmen, etc., but few people want those jobs. Everyone is convinced that they're going to be Senior Vice Presidents by the time they're 24, rather than an HVAC technician who makes a solid living wage. I'm glad people are motivated, but often times they just aren't realistic and they don't do their due diligience to determine if they're following the right path to achieve their lofty goals.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Red Leg View Post
    Yea, that kind of $#@!s those of us who are not good at advanced mathematics or hard sciences....
    i know it sucks. Bob Murphy even said to me that you have to get something that could get you a job. Despite him being an NYU grad, he wasn't able to get ANY job.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    I NEVER said ALL blue collar jobs are taken by idiots. All I said were younger people not in college or having gone to college who are in trades who are under 30 tend to be less skilled, less motivated, and tend to do a crappy job.
    ....compared to all those college educated cube rats who spend half their time on social media.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post

    HOW IN THE WORLD IS A TRAINED AMERICAN IT WORKER (Programmer, DBA, Business Analyst, Data Analyst, Project Manager, Network Admin, etc.) WITH A MORTGAGE AND A FAMILY SUPPOSED TO COMPETE WITH THAT? An-caps, so is the answer to basically make yourself homeless or live in the hood, and leave your family to compete with this?
    Here's the deal - in the time it took you to write this long and well though-out post, there were 5 poor IT shmucks in South America wondering how in the world they are supposed to compete with these machine-like American workers, who work 10 hours per day, barely take vacations, don't take an hour lunch break every day, went to the best schools in the world, and live in a country where the biggest businesses in the world are all headquartered. It's all relative. You make choices, and those choices involve trade-offs. To some cultures, certain things don't seem like that big of a trade-off, while to others certain things are considered necessities.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    and it DID even the playing field, we now have lots and lots of college graduates which would have never existed, they're more equal now. They might not be more employed or more rich than they were without the degree, but they're closer to degree and dignity equality because they were allowed to get a degree they couldn't afford. And now the job market is saturated with them.

    Of course it's not all on the lenders, but what were they forced to do they couldn't escape by changing careers (what they tell people whether entering or exiting colleges to do).
    No it didn't. The resulting glut of people with BAs depreciated their value. As you said, the market is saturated with applicants with BAs. Now employers look for Master's and higher. Plus, as I understand it, the standards for undergrad degrees have been watered down so colleges can pump out more grads-forcing people into graduate programs who otherwise would have been fine without it. On top of that, most people who enter a college are so ill-prepared for it that they don't graduate in 4 years. IOW, "higher ed" is a racket. (don't even get me started on ridiculously overpriced textbooks!) People who aren't academically gifted should go into trade school. The skilled trades pay very well and it's easier to get a job or start a business in those fields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  23. #80
    I think that regulations play a role in this. Forgive me if someone already said this.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    Let's honestly analyze this situation please. Tewnty-five to thirty years ago, those of us who went to college, were going there because we WERE QUALIFIED and could afford it (either through parents, scholarships, and/or loans which which you had to have some ability to prove you could pay back).
    Yeah, the whole student loan industry didn't exist back then. Very few people borrowed money to go to college. Your parents paid, or you made enough money to pay on your own. Where do college students work today to earn money for college? Many of those jobs are now permanently occupied by recent immigrants.

    Now, government has had a big role too. Tax incentives for off-shoring and on-shoring does not help. It should not cost less (disregarding salary) to hire foreigners than Americans. I see it in IT.
    To add to this, let me venture into the realm of "conspiracy". Pure crazy talk here.

    Let's imagine that a group of people have a desire to deficit spend. We'll call them government. We can also imagine that these people will engage in inflating the money supply in order to keep the gravy train rolling. Let's imagine that the people given the task of solving this problem are at the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, and Wall St. Someone has an idea: price inflation only occurs when there is wage inflation. We can offset monetary inflation if we can reduce labor costs and wages. The Wall St boys say, "how about we import more workers of all kinds, we knew that reduces our costs, and it will help with your inflation concerns". Great idea! The Wall St. boys come back and say "that works so well, we can also send the work out of the country, that will reduce our cost even more, and work even better at preventing your inflation problem". Everybody wins (at least everybody in the room).

    But hey, that's just crazy talk (except for the fact that Alan Greenspan has admitted that reduced labor costs was key to his inflation formula).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #82
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    I have nephew that thinks going to a community college for "classes", while he has no major or any career field plans, is going to get him somewhere other than debt. They drill this higher education stuff into their minds so much that it's all they think about.

    If he has no idea where to go, community college is best place for him. Plus, get him into volunteer work with churches and hospitals.

  27. #83
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    But, but, but ...there aren't any educated Americans! We must import educated workers. Americans are too stupid. If we just spend an extra trillion dollars on the Department of Education, then maybe Americans can become intelligent. Or maybe not.
    there aren't any educated Americans! We must import educated indentured serfes on visas and not give them citizenship. Americans are too stupid. If we just spend an extra trillion dollars on the Department of Education, then maybe Americans can become intelligent. Or maybe not

  28. #84
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    I wonder if it has become easier to get a degree today than it was, say 60 years ago. Are the universities lowering the standards and allowing more people to get the degrees? Maybe some of these folks would have been better off taking up a trade after high school. There is no shame in that. I'm surprised that bigger entities like corporations don't have their own universites. They could take only as many students as they need and have their employees trained for their position right out of school.
    I can understand the frustration of those who can't find work with higher degrees. If they want to work at a fast food place and a few other low paying jobs just to get by, they might not hire you because you are considered "over qualified".
    Yes, they are. They take students knowing less than 1/3 rd will even get a masters. They will take foreigners who will "make up $#@!" on their resume. and on and on.

  29. #85
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    I can say the same thing to the borrower, if he/she knows he/she can't be bailed out or let off the hook, maybe he/she will exercise caution.
    Not quite. Because in the end, it will require a judge, a court, a sheriff, and eventually violence to collect. The lender is the one that needs the exercise in caution.

  30. #86
    I have a BS degree in human biology.. but I am stuck in the mud because my GPA sucks 2.9. my major gpa is... let's just say its not better.

    Not sure what went wrong. I was mainly a B student with sprinkles of A and C. I guess my C's outnumbered my A's in the end =(.

    Here is some advice folks
    1) go into a major you REALLY want to be in (i wanted to be in computer/internet related, but my dad say no good. outsourced.)
    2) dont take classes based on what your friends do or dont change majors because you have friends in that major (i was originally general biology, but i changed to biology because a few of my close, former friends is in that major and some of our classes are the same. but i switched anyways beecaues general biology was too "vague". human bio was a lot harder lets say.)
    3) only study with hard working and serious students. it was one of the reason why i switched majors, because the friends i knew were serious. we'd often spend 1-3 hours trying to solve one problem together.
    4) ALWAYS get experience. It is something I lacked and I now suffer the consequences. IT is much easier to get internships and experience if you are a student. After you graduate, you will realize you need that experience to be even on the radar for hiring managers.

    Overall, I failed college even though I graduated. Crappy grades, no experience in my field and I neglected to get recommendations.

    If I could.. I would've went into internet/computers/graphic arts mainly because those are my interests and where I feel comfortable with.

    I got my first job actually.. working at the post office as casual/seasonal. so now im just applying to places like sam's club, target, costco, etc etc.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by NCGOPer_for_Paul View Post
    This is the attitude that will turn these United States into a third-world nation.

    And that attitude that thinks it's okay is why I am not a full-bore libertarian.
    You're honestly barking up the wrong tree on this one with me.

    I have been homeless, and I have been a part of a six-figure household. I have had to support four people, and I have had only myself. I have had $1/day budget for food, and I have had virtually unlimited funds to do what I please (since I'm really not into the "luxury lifestyle," anyhow). You talk about wishing you'd learned more from your dad? How about your kids learn to scrounge a bit It isn't a third-world nation just because you "only" theoretically make $58k per year. Since you were also talking about a two-parent household, between you and the theoretical wife in the picture, the income should be considerably higher.

    Incidentally, the $58k number came up because you were absolutely shocked that some foreigner would accept such a paltry sum. It doesn't seem paltry to me. If you "made your plans" based on the idea of making six figures all your life through retirement, and got into debt based on that alarmingly short-sighted and idiotic assumption, then yes you are going to wind up paying the price. Your children won't go to private schools, unless you work with them and try to gain a scholarship for them, or a work exchange arrangement. Your house will not be quite as grand. Your children might even have to share a room!!! Lord knows these are all death sentences.

    If you were worth the six-figure income, you will find a way --- or multiple ways --- to bounce back. Someone will hire you, you'll have a spectacular idea and hire yourself, or you will claw your way from a low-level job to a much more agreeable one. Or your spouse will!

    My memory of the American Dream is a wee bit fuzzy, but I don't recall it being handed to anyone. Most of the time it involves some very hard work, a lot of dark times, tenacity, and adaptation.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mmfmj View Post
    I have a BS degree in human biology.. but I am stuck in the mud because my GPA sucks 2.9. my major gpa is... let's just say its not better.

    Not sure what went wrong. I was mainly a B student with sprinkles of A and C. I guess my C's outnumbered my A's in the end =(.

    Here is some advice folks
    1) go into a major you REALLY want to be in (i wanted to be in computer/internet related, but my dad say no good. outsourced.)
    2) dont take classes based on what your friends do or dont change majors because you have friends in that major (i was originally general biology, but i changed to biology because a few of my close, former friends is in that major and some of our classes are the same. but i switched anyways beecaues general biology was too "vague". human bio was a lot harder lets say.)
    3) only study with hard working and serious students. it was one of the reason why i switched majors, because the friends i knew were serious. we'd often spend 1-3 hours trying to solve one problem together.
    4) ALWAYS get experience. It is something I lacked and I now suffer the consequences. IT is much easier to get internships and experience if you are a student. After you graduate, you will realize you need that experience to be even on the radar for hiring managers.

    Overall, I failed college even though I graduated. Crappy grades, no experience in my field and I neglected to get recommendations.

    If I could.. I would've went into internet/computers/graphic arts mainly because those are my interests and where I feel comfortable with.

    I got my first job actually.. working at the post office as casual/seasonal. so now im just applying to places like sam's club, target, costco, etc etc.
    I have a CCL in computer graphic design. I can tell you that all the employers I've inquired of wanted at least a BA and experience. :/ I could take an internship cheaply, but I don't have the money for a degree. :P However, if you have the skills you can freelance. I need to try that one of these days... (I've heard good things about elance.com)

    ETA: it's pretty cheap to become Adobe certified. Just get the Classroom In A Book series and take Adobe's certification test. The pros I met in design school did that.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 02-03-2013 at 02:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by LibForestPaul View Post
    If he has no idea where to go, community college is best place for him. Plus, get him into volunteer work with churches and hospitals.
    I think he should get a job. There's a lot of jobs available. Not glamorous or comfortable type of jobs but....

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    I fail to see a problem here,other than the fact that they are getting food stamps,of course.Do away with food stamps and such socialist truck and I would see no problem at all.

    In any free market economy,if hundreds of thousands of people are shelling out billions of dollars for a degree that others consider worthless,well that sounds like a personal problem,not a market failure.

    Suppose that hundreds of thousands of people were going into billions of dollars of debt to study how to be snake charmers or buggy whip makers,what debt does the rest of society owe them for their perhaps less than timely or intelligent choice?

    Nobody is forced to go to college,let alone get a higher degree.If the Masters or higher degree works out for you,great.If it doesn't,don't expect others to pay for your groceries.
    It sounds like you are missing the point of this thread. Nobody is saying it's a market failure. In fact, the reason education costs are so high are because of all the subsidation of the education industry. Of course we're not being forced to go to college. We're not trying to find problems with liberty in this. We're just lamenting the state of affairs when people think it's important to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for something that may not even land them a job. The college degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on BECAUSE of government education.

    If so many people are shelling out all that money for something that's worthless, that's got to be a sign of something. It's not just a fluke that all those individuals strive for something that's worthless. It's a sign that government intervention has made it so that people put more value on something than it's wroth because 1) propaganda says that's the only way to get a job and 2) The government subsidizes it, so people are less careful with their money. They take out huge loans because they think it's what they're supposed to do, and sacrifice their life savings only to get a minimum wage job to pay off the debt.

    Again, nobody here is saying the fact that people do this is a "problem." It's just plain sad and it's a sign that government is way too involved in our lives.
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