In New Orleans, an unwelcome mat for Goodell

[torchbearer]

An effigy of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell dangles from the front porch of a New Orleans home that is otherwise festively decorated with Saints paraphernalia. With restaurants and bars gearing up for an influx of Super Bowl XLVII visitors, the "Refuse to Serve Roger Goodell" page on Facebook had 107 likes as of Friday.
A portrait of Goodell covers the bull's-eye on the dart board at Parkview Tavern.
And floats in the unabashedly lowbrow Krewe du Vieux parade in the French Quarter last weekend displayed larger-than-life likenesses of Goodell in acts that defy polite description.
New Orleans is celebrating the return of Saints coach Sean Payton after a season of NFL banishment as a result of the "bountygate" scandal — when the team ran a pay-for-hits program. But Goodell, who suspended Payton and other current and former Saints players and coaches last year for their roles in the system, is being ridiculed here with a vehemence usually reserved for the city's scandal-scarred politicians.
"They believe he completely used the Saints as an example of something that was going on league-wide," said Pauline Patterson, co-owner of Finn McCool's, an Irish Bar in the Mid-City neighborhood where the words "Go To Hell Goodell" are visible over the fireplace.

they are downplaying the hatred for the man- from people i've spoken to... I'd be surprised he makes it out of the town alive. for real.
He shouldn't come. He isn't welcomed.

[TheGrinch]

Can y'all get over it already please.

The Saints wouldn't have been punished if they cut it out when the league told them to the first time. They were punsihed for insubordination on a matter that gave the league a huge black eye, and paid the consequences for it.

(BTW, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm a Falcons fan whose had to hear about the ever-evolving excuses all year)

[torchbearer]

Can y'all get over it already please.

The Saints wouldn't have been punished if they cut it out when the league told them to the first time. They were punsihed for insubordination on a matter that gave the league a huge black eye, and paid the consequences for it.

(BTW, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm a Falcons fan whose had to hear about the ever-evolving excuses all year)

First off, it wasn't what ESPN peddled on behalf of Goodell.
There was no organized pay to hurt program. nothing illegal.
People here are pissed, and it isn't going to go away. That is a fact.
I just hope the commission decides to make an example out of atlanta next... then maybe you'd change your tune.

[TheGrinch]

First off, it wasn't what ESPN peddled on behalf of Goodell.
There was no organized pay to hurt program. nothing illegal.
People here are pissed, and it isn't going to go away. That is a fact.
I just hope the commission decides to make an example out of atlanta next... then maybe you'd change your tune.

Right, so rather than sweep it under the rug like they wanted to, they made an example of 1/32 of the teams they represent.

You do realize that inventing the Saints bounties to be a scapegoat only draws more questions about league safety, right? It's not like the Saints are an independent entity like the Player's Association, they are a part of the NFL, so for the NFL to invent a scandal that their constituents are doing (and only raising more questions about what other constituents are doing) doesn't make a lick of sense. It may make the NFL heads look responsbile, but it makes the league look far worse than if they'd jsut swept it under the rug, like they wanted to when they warned them the first time.

And no one was speaking out against the allegations until it was found that Goodell might not have that strong of a case, so more power to them on that regarding punishment, but the coaches know what went on and were ready to take their punishment. Hell, I don't know how you can listen to that tape about them going after Crabtree's ACL and think any differently.

Seriously, why would you invent a pay-for-injury scandal at a time when you and the 32 teams you represent are facing lawsuits over concussions and such?

[torchbearer]

Right, so rather than sweep it under the rug like they wanted to, they made an example of 1/32 of the teams they represent.

You do realize that inventing the Saints bounties to be a scapegoat only draws more questions about league safety, right? It's not like the Saints are an independent entity like the Player's Association, they are a part of the NFL, so for the NFL to invent a scandal that their constituents are doing (and only raising more questions about what other constituents are doing) doesn't make a lick of sense. It may make the NFL heads look responsbile, but it makes the league look far worse than if they'd jsut swept it under the rug, like they wanted to when they warned them the first time.

And no one was speaking out against the allegations until it was found that Goodell might not have that strong of a case, so more power to them on that regarding punishment, but the coaches know what went on and were ready to take their punishment. Hell, I don't know how you can listen to that tape about them going after Crabtree's ACL and think any differently.

Seriously, why would you invent a pay-for-injury scandal at a time when you and the 32 teams you represent are facing lawsuits over concussions and such?

A guy was coming out with a film that showed Greg Williams saying stuff that would have been damaging to the NFL.
The NFL pre-empted the film release by going after greg williams and company.
You don't know the story, apparently- because you don't understand what made the NFL act.

[torchbearer]

Also, the saints didn't have the huge cart off numbers other teams racked up those years. there was no physical film proof that the players were injuring others.
What you have are $#@! fans of other teams piling on bull$#@! they don't even know about.

[TheGrinch]

So which part of this timeline would you like to dispute. What do Childress and Hargrove have to gain by coming forward? Why was Vilma's defamation suit dismissed if this was such an open-and-shut case of the NFL knowingly fabricating facts about his involvement?

[TheGrinch]

A guy was coming out with a film that showed Greg Williams saying stuff that would have been damaging to the NFL.
The NFL pre-empted the film release by going after greg williams and company.
You don't know the story, apparently- because you don't understand what made the NFL act.

So rather than the NFL simply disavowing the damning statements and throwing Williams under the bus for just that, they decide to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, and only draw actual questions about player safety?

Your logic seems to be that since something not even substantial that a Saints coach said was coming out, they decided to make the situation even more damning for the league by fabricating evidence that he walked the talk. Makes perfect sense

Maybe jsut maybe the audio was damning because it was damning. You really don't think that if they could make the claim that this was jsut coachspeak and not something sanctioned, that they wouldn't have? Because it certainly was in their best interests to sweep it under the rug and not draw more questions about player safety at a time when the league was taking heat over it.

Further, they could have easily just gone after Williams if they so chose to, without taking down the whole organization down with him. You seem to think they welcomed this PR nightmare, when if it didn't happen, there would have been much easier ways to handle it without turning a mole hill into a mountain.

[torchbearer]

So which part of this timeline would you like to dispute. What do Childress and Hargrove have to gain by coming forward? Why was Vilma's defamation suit dismissed if this was such an open-and-shut case of the NFL knowingly fabricating facts about his involvement?

did you read what the judge said in the vilma case?
he said the saints season was miserable, it over- move on.
if your read what the judge said, it seemed like he dismissed vilma's case because the saints had a bad season.

1/25/10- vilma supposedly offered 10,000 to injure. never proven. no money was put up or paid. though it was during that playoff season that the gleason documatarian got greg williams saying typical football rhetoric of killing your opponent.

[torchbearer]

So rather than the NFL simply disavowing the damning statements and throwing the Saints under the bus for just that, they decide to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, and only draw actual questions about player safety?

Your logic seems to be that since something not even substantial that a Saints coach said was coming out, they decided to make the situation even more damning for the league by fabricating evidence that he walked the talk. Makes perfect sense

yes it makes sense, they act morally superior in market of violence.
football is violence, then they act like they are appalled by violence. it makes perfect sense.
scapegoats made, it makes sense to all those who hate the saints anyway(falcons fans).

[TheGrinch]

did you read what the judge said in the vilma case?
he said the saints season was miserable, it over- move on.
if your read what the judge said, it seemed like he dismissed vilma's case because the saints had a bad season.

1/25/10- vilma supposedly offered 10,000 to injure. never proven. no money was put up or paid. though it was during that playoff season that the gleason documatarian got greg williams saying typical football rhetoric of killing your opponent.

That does not sound in the least like a reasoning for a ruling... That's like saying to a fraud victim, hey you've suffered hardships unnecessarily, but it's over now, so I don't see the need for restitution.

Maybe click that link in the timeline I posted, it gives the actual reasonings for dismissal.

[TheGrinch]

yes it makes sense, they act morally superior in market of violence.
football is violence, then they act like they are appalled by violence. it makes perfect sense.
scapegoats made, it makes sense to all those who hate the saints anyway(falcons fans).

You do realzie that the NFL is accountable for what it's teams do right? The last thing I'd do if I was trying to sweep player safety issues under the rug is fabricate a bounty program involving one of the teams I represent. It's simply not in their best interest, but it appears their hand was forced.

If it was jsut a matter of daming statements by Williams, they wouldn't have gone any further than him and his statements as a scapegoat.

You do know that there was an actual investigation with the Saints warned right? You do know that the coaches took full responsibility when the story broke, and only after details of the evidence came out did anyone claim innocence. That's what lawyers do, not the innocent.

[torchbearer]

That does not sound in the least like a reasoning for a ruling... That's like saying to a fraud victim, hey you've suffered hardships unnecessarily, but it's over now, so I don't see the need for restitution.

Maybe click that link in the timeline I posted, it gives the actual reasonings for dismissal.

I told you why the link you listed in invalid from early on.
and you still want to use it as a source?
ever been to court in new orleans?

[torchbearer]

"Even though this matter has been pending only since May of this year, it feels as protracted and painful as the Saints' season itself and calls for closure," Berrigan said, according to WWL Television in New Orleans.
Vilma appealed the suspension issued by Goodell, and the commissioner upheld it. But Goodell recused himself from a second appeal. Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue stepped in as the appeals officer.
Although Tagliabue said he didn't disagree with Goodell's finding of the facts related to Vilma, he vacated the suspension.

[TheGrinch]

Links fro Nola.com including detailed reasoning for the verdict aren't valid sources? Umm, okay then...

[TheGrinch]

And to be clear, I wouldn't be piling on if you guys didn't fling crap about it every chance you can find.

[torchbearer]

Links fro Nola.com including detailed reasoning for the verdict aren't valid sources? Umm, okay then...

Nola.com was trumpeting the greatness of mayor Nagin.
do you need further explanation?

[torchbearer]

And to be clear, I wouldn't be piling on if you guys didn't fling crap about it every chance you can find.

I hope it happens to your team. I really do.
though it won't happen because there is no threat of a documentary coming out with one of your coaches sayins typical football $#@!.

[torchbearer]

On the day that members of the Saints' brass had their appeals heard for their roles in New Orleans' bounty system, damning audio was released of Gregg Williams, the man who orchestrated the program, instructing his players to injure San Francisco 49ers players in their wild-card playoff game last season. Documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon, who directed the ESPN 30 for 30 film "Run Ricky Run," released Thursday an audio recording he says is a speech Williams, the team's former defensive coordinator, gave to New Orleans players the night before the team lost to the 49ers in a playoff game in January.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...o-49ers-speech

[TheGrinch]

I hope it happens to your team. I really do.
though it won't happen because there is no threat of a documentary coming out with one of your coaches sayins typical football $#@!.

Stay classy then.

I don't wish this on any fan base, and I'd much prefer you guys not have any excuses when we play you.

If you think my doubts and annoyance over you guys claiming your patsies means that I'm happy about the situation, then well, keep those rose colored glasses on...

[torchbearer]

Stay classy then.

I don't wish this on any fan base, and I'd much prefer you guys not have any excuses when we play you.

If you think my doubts and annoyance over you guys claiming your patsies means that I'm happy about the situation, then well, keep those rose colored glasses on...

What i'm saying is... it could have been your team. as all teams have had such bravado amongst its players. it was not special to the saints organization.
there was bravado, there was machismo.. there was kill your enemy type rhetoric, but the same could be said about my high school football team.
and anyone who gives credence to this bull$#@! deserves to have that violence directed at them.
sit on your rose colored glasses and spin.

[TheGrinch]

On the day that members of the Saints' brass had their appeals heard for their roles in New Orleans' bounty system, damning audio was released of Gregg Williams, the man who orchestrated the program, instructing his players to injure San Francisco 49ers players in their wild-card playoff game last season. Documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon, who directed the ESPN 30 for 30 film "Run Ricky Run," released Thursday an audio recording he says is a speech Williams, the team's former defensive coordinator, gave to New Orleans players the night before the team lost to the 49ers in a playoff game in January.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...o-49ers-speech

Gee, that really makes me think they're patsies, how could anyone think otherwise...

[TheGrinch]

What i'm saying is... it could have been your team. as all teams have had such bravado amongst its players. it was not special to the saints organization.
there was bravado, there was machismo.. there was kill your enemy type rhetoric, but the same could be said about my high school football team.
and anyone who gives credence to this bull$#@! deserves to have that violence directed at them.
sit on your rose colored glasses and spin.

As I said earlier, the Saints got caught, sorry but the "everyone is doing it" doesn't fly (if that's even your argument, I can't really tell with Saints fans with your ever-evolving theories).

Like I said in the beginning, the evidence seems to point to the Saints being disciplined for insubordination. The NFL was ready to let them off with a warning prior to new evidence.

And I don't know why you feel the need in this thread to condone violence over people's beliefs over what happened. You Saints fans really need to let it go, because you're gaining a dangerous mob-mentality against those you disagree with.

[torchbearer]

Gee, that really makes me think they're patsies, how could anyone think otherwise...

I take it you didn't actually play football in a competive environment.
our coaches said far worse. every game was "war". the game is violence.
we were to rip the heads off our opponents.
did that mean we took out machettes and cut their heads off? no.
it just pumped us up to hit harder and be more aggressive. it is what the game demands.

[torchbearer]

As I said earlier, the Saints got caught, sorry but the "everyone is doing it" doesn't fly (if that's even your argument, I can't really tell with Saints fans with your ever-evolving theories).

Like I said in the beginning, the evidence seems to point to the Saints being disciplined for insubordination. The NFL was ready to let them off with a warning prior to new evidence.

"everyone is doing it"
means everyone who competes in football uses war like rhetoric.
there was no hurt other people for pay program. are you saying this is otherwise?

[TheGrinch]

"everyone is doing it"
means everyone who competes in football uses war like rhetoric.
there was no hurt other people for pay program. are you saying this is otherwise?

There have been countless former players and coaches who said that they've never heard such violent rhetoric come from a coach, especially not in the modern era... But I guess they must be in on it...

[torchbearer]

There have been countless former players and coaches who said that they've never heard such violent rhetoric come from a coach, especially not in the modern era... But I guess they must be in on it...

they are full of $#@!.
every football team i've been on had such rhetoric.
i'm telling you they are lying.

[torchbearer]

the linemen of my junior high team would say at line up "cah, cah- bang! $#@!'em dead"
a reference to the crow movie.

[torchbearer]

How many cart off did the Saints have in the 2010 season(or any season around that?)
where do they rank amongst other teams?
What about Suh at detroit? no saints players has ever done what he has done. and what he does is after the play shanking of other players.

[jkr]

its all bull$#@!
the guBBermint doesnt like unauthorized "income" that is probably "unreported"

its all about the "money" ( as usual )
which we PRINT into existence
there is NO shortage of it

and life, i hear, is DANGEROUS!
ONE DAY WE WILL ALL probably DIE

so what if some idiot has to sip his food through a straw for the majority of his life because he got a boo-boo doing something HE CHOSE TO DO?
so what, WE PRINT MONEY! (whut could POSSIBLY go wrong?)

i dont WANT to see ANYBODY get hurt, sick, or die but guess what...THEY ARE GOING TO ANYWAY AND THERE IS NOTHING MICROTYRANTS like g00dell or "insurance" companies can do to stop it

why cant we just let the $#@! go and let life take its own course one individual at a time?