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Thread: Wanted: 'Adventurous Woman' to Give Birth to NEANDERTHAL MAN

  1. #31

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    Ok, but seriously, doesn't this violate some sort of medical code of ethics NOT to do experimentation on humans?
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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by KrokHead View Post
    Why the hell would we want to bring neanderthals back? Jurassic Park and Planet of the Apes IV didn't work out too well.
    Exactly.

    Any adventurous women willing to recreate hitler? They have enough of his DNA left to do that one too...


    ...no, not really, but you get the point.

  4. #33

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    Assuming they are semi intelligent but lack critical thinking.Im sure the government would see them as the perfect soldier.Strong and willing to shoot whatever there told too with no moral objection.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by robert9712000 View Post
    Assuming they are semi intelligent but lack critical thinking.Im sure the government would see them as the perfect soldier.Strong and willing to shoot whatever there told too with no moral objection.
    Did neanderthal man have speech abilities? I thought that was a homo sapien sapien thing.
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  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carehn View Post
    What if we find out we are not the better species and we simply where better at killing?

    The main reason we won out was th fact that we were a more social species and technological innovation spread through word of mouth quicker.
    Last edited by trey4sports; 01-21-2013 at 05:41 PM.

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Did neanderthal man have speech abilities? I thought that was a homo sapien sapien thing.
    I think this is the kind of questions that would be answered by such a venture.

    Our thoughts that Human is special and all animals are seperate and apart would be challenged.

    but this is creating life, not destroying life.
    I'd prefer creation over destruction.

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  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by loveableteddybear View Post
    Exactly.

    Any adventurous women willing to recreate hitler? They have enough of his DNA left to do that one too...


    ...no, not really, but you get the point.
    It's not as if Hitler2 would necessarily go on and kill as many jews as Hitler1. I mean, that wasn't a genetical disorder or something.


  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Hehe does this really piss off religious people?
    Do you have to be "religious" to have ethics?

    story from the DailyMail,, but regardless.
    It is an extremely bad idea, even if it was possible.
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  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Do you have to be "religious" to have ethics?

    story from the DailyMail,, but regardless.
    It is an extremely bad idea, even if it was possible.
    http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresource.../cloning.shtml
    high rates of death, deformity, and disability observed among animal clones
    []

    What are the risks of cloning?

    Reproductive cloning is expensive and highly inefficient. More than 90% of cloning attempts fail to produce viable offspring. More than 100 nuclear transfer procedures could be required to produce one viable clone. In addition to low success rates, cloned animals tend to have more compromised immune function and higher rates of infection, tumor growth, and other disorders. Japanese studies have shown that cloned mice live in poor health and die early. About a third of the cloned calves born alive have died young, and many of them were abnormally large. Many cloned animals have not lived long enough to generate good data about how clones age. Appearing healthy at a young age unfortunately is not a good indicator of long-term survival. Clones have been known to die mysteriously. For example, Australia's first cloned sheep appeared healthy and energetic on the day she died, and the results from her autopsy failed to determine a cause of death.
    In 2002, researchers at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts, reported that the genomes of cloned mice are compromised. In analyzing more than 10,000 liver and placenta cells of cloned mice, they discovered that about 4% of genes function abnormally. The abnormalities do not arise from mutations in the genes but from changes in the normal activation or expression of certain genes.
    Problems also may result from programming errors in the genetic material from a donor cell. When an embryo is created from the union of a sperm and an egg, the embryo receives copies of most genes from both parents. A process called "imprinting" chemically marks the DNA from the mother and father so that only one copy of a gene (either the maternal or paternal gene) is turned on. Defects in the genetic imprint of DNA from a single donor cell may lead to some of the developmental abnormalities of cloned embryos.
    For more details on the risks associated with cloning, see the Cloning Problems links below.
    Should humans be cloned?

    Physicians from the American Medical Association and scientists with the American Association for the Advancement of Science have issued formal public statements advising against human reproductive cloning. The U.S. Congress has considered the passage of legislation that could ban human cloning. See the Policy and Legislation links below.
    Due to the inefficiency of animal cloning (only about 1 or 2 viable offspring for every 100 experiments) and the lack of understanding about reproductive cloning, many scientists and physicians strongly believe that it would be unethical to attempt to clone humans. Not only do most attempts to clone mammals fail, about 30% of clones born alive are affected with "large-offspring syndrome" and other debilitating conditions. Several cloned animals have died prematurely from infections and other complications. The same problems would be expected in human cloning. In addition, scientists do not know how cloning could impact mental development. While factors such as intellect and mood may not be as important for a cow or a mouse, they are crucial for the development of healthy humans. With so many unknowns concerning reproductive cloning, the attempt to clone humans at this time is considered potentially dangerous and ethically irresponsible. See the Cloning Ethics links below for more information about the human cloning debate.

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  11. #40

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    Shorter, Heavier, stronger, fossils most often found in cold or mountainous areas of Europe. Anyone else notice the similarity to the Dwarves of Nordic mythology? They say all legends contain a seed of truth.

  12. #41

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    This guy isn't talking about creating a neanderthal embryo, he's talking about taking an already existing embryo and changing it into something else - denying and destroying the inherent value of the human being it would become unmolested, for the hypothetical value of an extinct species that can wait for technology to remove the necessity of using a human embryo. But the guy's ego can't wait.

  13. #42
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    I bet if he paid the individual instead of asking for a volunteer he'd have someone doing it.

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  14. #43

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    A lot to ponder about all of this.
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  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icymudpuppy View Post
    Shorter, Heavier, stronger, fossils most often found in cold or mountainous areas of Europe. Anyone else notice the similarity to the Dwarves of Nordic mythology? They say all legends contain a seed of truth.
    Humans were much shorter back then.A Roman legionary was on average around 160-165 cm tall.They saw the German and Slavic tribes which were around 175-185 cm on average as giants.

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icymudpuppy View Post
    Shorter, Heavier, stronger, fossils most often found in cold or mountainous areas of Europe. Anyone else notice the similarity to the Dwarves of Nordic mythology? They say all legends contain a seed of truth.
    J.R.R.Tolkien's dwarves as glimpsed in the latest HOBBIT movie do act like actualized and evolved Neanderthals.

    Technically, the scientist is trying to morph a modern human into manifesting some Neanderthal traits rather than

    bringing back a precise cloned "twin" of one of the legendary valient Ice Age hunters. It would be easier to clone

    a scientist like Sir Isaac Newton or any of the recent Kings or Queens of England if permission is given. This has

    echoes of H.G. Wells's ISLAND OF DOCTOR MOREAU in that it has a level of experimentation worthy of a horror film.

  17. #46

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    There is no evidence that neanderthals were less intelligent than homo sapiens. They had language, as did Homo Erectus, used fire, and created beautiful art. Really hard to say why they died out or even IF they died out. They might simply have been absorbed by homo sapiens. All humans, other than pure Africans, have some neanderthal dna.
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  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    Humans were much shorter back then.A Roman legionary was on average around 160-165 cm tall.They saw the German and Slavic tribes which were around 175-185 cm on average as giants.
    Human GRAIN EATERS were much shorter. Those who had not foolishly abandoned the more libertarian hunter/gatherer lifestyle remained tall, healthy, and long-lived.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

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  19. #48

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    Too much discussion. Need facts. Someone do it, report back and then we can close this thread.
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  20. #49

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    I guess not everyone watches Sci-Fi Horror movies.

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    There is no evidence that neanderthals were less intelligent than homo sapiens. They had language, as did Homo Erectus, used fire, and created beautiful art. Really hard to say why they died out or even IF they died out. They might simply have been absorbed by homo sapiens. All humans, other than pure Africans, have some neanderthal dna.
    Their frontal cortex was smaller, which means that their ability to reason wasn't as profound as ours.

    On an intelligence scale, I would guess they're above dolphins but below us. I'm not even sure they were sentient in the way that we would understand the term.
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  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatjohn View Post
    Too much discussion. Need facts. Someone do it, report back and then we can close this thread.
    I heard a radio interview yesterday with the scientist. This whole story was a "what if" media creation. The reporter wanted to talk about recreating a neanderthal. The scientist has no desire or plan to do it.

    He is working on modifying the genetics of living people as part of medical procedures. For example, some people can not catch the HIV virus as they do not have the receptor that HIV needs. They are looking at modifying the DNA of people with HIV/AIDS to have that same trait (absence of that receptor).

    This is a book by the scientist:

    http://www.amazon.com/Regenesis-Synt.../dp/0465021751

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  23. #52
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    If we Mundanes are currently hearing about this as a "what if", it means they've already done it, somewhere. No, I don't think I know it all, but I do recognize patterns. They are always decades ahead of us. Sometimes it seems like the only hope we've got is the theory of chaos.
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  24. #53
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    Quote from Dr. Ian Malcolm character from "Jurassic Park"
    "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."
    Quote from same character modified
    Dr. Ian Malcolm: God creates neanderthal. God destroys neanderthal. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates neanderthal.
    Peace.

  25. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEnochs View Post
    Their frontal cortex was smaller, which means that their ability to reason wasn't as profound as ours.

    On an intelligence scale, I would guess they're above dolphins but below us. I'm not even sure they were sentient in the way that we would understand the term.
    The bottlenose dolphin has a pretty impressive brain. I'm not so sure I would rank them below humans. This really gets into a question about the meaning of intelligence. There are different kinds of intelligence.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

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  26. #55
    une plume de Libertée GunnyFreedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    The bottlenose dolphin has a pretty impressive brain. I'm not so sure I would rank them below humans. This really gets into a question about the meaning of intelligence. There are different kinds of intelligence.
    And sentience. Sentience is not exactly a clear rubicon.

  27. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Rogue View Post
    Quote from same character modified

    Dr. Ian Malcolm: God creates neanderthal. God destroys neanderthal. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates neanderthal.
    Neanderthal eats man. Woman inherits the Earth...then gets clubbed to death by neanderthal.
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  28. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbot24 View Post
    If we Mundanes are currently hearing about this as a "what if", it means they've already done it, somewhere. No, I don't think I know it all, but I do recognize patterns. They are always decades ahead of us. Sometimes it seems like the only hope we've got is the theory of chaos.
    I'm surprised it took 52 posts for someone to finally say this.

  29. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    It pisses me off.
    I'm not religious, I like science...
    But this pisses me off.
    Chill bro.
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  30. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    That is the point of the slave argument.They were smart enough to use simple tools but never amounted to anything more + were much bigger and stronger.That lack of intelligence would make people look up on them as animals rather than humans.Every bullshit slave owners made up about their slaves just to dehumanize them in the eyes of the general populations for this creature it would be fact,the perfect slave.

    Either slaves or amusement ,there is no other option.Even if they would somehow have an intelligence close to one of a human because of the human DNA of a woman,we today can not yet reconcile the difference of skin color let alone having a species that has totally different physical characteristics that can compete with us.The time before someone starts demanding their extermination can be measured in minutes.God forbid they get a country.
    If that happens then I propose we give them Israel or the Gaza. The land of their ancestors.
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  31. #60
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    Consider...

    First,
    that if you take a baby monkey from its mother and keep it in your house, regardless of whether or not you give it the proper food and drink and exercize, that monkey stands a strong change of growing up a basket case. It will likely bear little behavioral resemblance to an adult monkey of its same species. This is fairly well documented.

    Second,
    that if you take a baby Chinese human being from its mother and keep her in a cradle for the first two years of its life, regardless of whether or not you give her the proper food and drink and exercize, by the time an American family adopts her, she's very likely to have a laundry list of psychological and developmental issues. In short, she will also bear little behavioral resemblance to a young human being. This is not only well documented, there's actually an industry that gets paid to try to fix these children.

    Third,
    regardless of whether evolution is real, that a Neanderthal must fall somewhere in the interval between monkey and human, including endpoints.

    Fourth,
    that no human being in the last 11,000 years has had the slightest clue what goes into rearing a Neanderthal child.


    Therefore, the chance that this Neanderthal will develop into a balanced individual is pretty damned low.
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