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Thread: Deleted Forbes Article: Psychiatric Drugs, Not A Lack Of Gun Control,-The Common Denominat

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Do you understand the concept of Common Denominator?

    Millions of Gun owners do not shoot up schools.

    But every one that does is using these pills that are admittedly known to cause violent and suicidal reactions.
    You've got to agree that people who are already depressed (and are therefore likely to take those drugs) seem to be more likely to commit such terrible actions (whether or not they actually take drugs) than those who are fine, on an emotional basis. And since depressed people are likely to take drugs and if gunmen are likely to be depressed, it's only logical that gunmen are likely to take those drugs.

    People who commit mass shootings are a terrible small sample size to extrapolate anything. Every obvious correlation could be coincidence (because of the small sample size), insignificant (like the fact that most gunmen ate bread), could indicate actual causation, could mean that both phenomena are (partly) caused by the same root cause (like being depressed increases a person's likelyhood to a) take drugs and b) become a gunman), etc.

    I'm not ruling out that side effects of psychotropic drugs can contribute to insane decisions. But just because most gunmen took those drugs doesn't convince me either that they are the root cause.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    OK- it was drugs. Let's ban all drugs- especially those which could altar the mind. Including alcohol and marijuana and LSD. That will surely stop people from shooting each other and everybody will be happy again.
    Alcohol related violence was one of the drivers for alcohol prohibition the first time around...
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinchWhoStoleDC View Post
    And seriously, have you ever listened to the side-effects of these drugs, and then tell me with a straight face that you're positive that they had nothing to do with otherwise non-violent people turn into killing machines due to depression?
    They are designed to alter the state of your mind in some way, so obviously it is possible that some of those shootings would not have happened had the gunmen not taken those drugs. On the other hand, they may have also prevented several shootings. There is really no way to tell.

    I know someone very close to me who told me (and I was very critical of psychotropic drugs at that time) that certain drugs increased her quality of life dramatically (panic disorder, some serotonin-related drug). She told me that taking a few drops of that medicine enables her to go outside and participate in normal, social situations (like shopping, going out, etc.) without the constant, horrible fear of having a panic disorder in public. And I'm really not a position to judge that what she told me is wrong.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    OK- it was drugs. Let's ban all drugs- especially those which could altar the mind. Including alcohol and marijuana and LSD. That will surely stop people from shooting each other and everybody will be happy again.
    No,, wrong approach.
    Has been tried and failed miserably.

    LSD has proven therapeutic uses. Long before it was tested for used in the MK ULTRA Programs. Tests which found it to be unsuitable for the goals.
    Big Pharma and over 80 research institutes worked to develop other substances though.

    Marijuana also has therapeutic used and some of these SSRIs may have as well,, though I am skeptical.

    I would rather see the War on Drugs end as well as the Medical Monopolies.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Danan View Post
    They are designed to alter the state of your mind in some way, so obviously it is possible that some of those shootings would not have happened had the gunmen not taken those drugs. On the other hand, they may have also prevented several shootings. There is really no way to tell.
    90% of mass shooters were on these drugs. For the remaining 10%, in most if not all cases if they were on SSRI's was simply not reported. About 1 in 25 teenagers are on SSRI's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danan View Post
    I know someone very close to me who told me (and I was very critical of psychotropic drugs at that time) that certain drugs increased her quality of life dramatically (panic disorder, some serotonin-related drug). She told me that taking a few drops of that medicine enables her to go outside and participate in normal, social situations (like shopping, going out, etc.) without the constant, horrible fear of having a panic disorder in public. And I'm really not a position to judge that what she told me is wrong.
    Sometimes the drugs help. Sometimes they make the conditions worse. But for the most part, what is being treated is not a violent condition, but the treatment sometimes triggers violent behavior in a small percentage of the population.

    -t

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    No,, wrong approach.
    Has been tried and failed miserably.

    LSD has proven therapeutic uses. Long before it was tested for used in the MK ULTRA Programs. Tests which found it to be unsuitable for the goals.
    Big Pharma and over 80 research institutes worked to develop other substances though.

    Marijuana also has therapeutic used and some of these SSRIs may have as well,, though I am skeptical.

    I would rather see the War on Drugs end as well as the Medical Monopolies.
    Which was actually my point. These events aren't happening because of prescription medications or guns and banning either will not prevent them from happening in the future. They are isolated cases of messed up kids.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Danan View Post
    You've got to agree that people who are already depressed (and are therefore likely to take those drugs) seem to be more likely to commit such terrible actions (whether or not they actually take drugs) than those who are fine, on an emotional basis. And since depressed people are likely to take drugs and if gunmen are likely to be depressed, it's only logical that gunmen are likely to take those drugs.

    People who commit mass shootings are a terrible small sample size to extrapolate anything. Every obvious correlation could be coincidence (because of the small sample size), insignificant (like the fact that most gunmen ate bread), could indicate actual causation, could mean that both phenomena are (partly) caused by the same root cause (like being depressed increases a person's likelyhood to a) take drugs and b) become a gunman), etc.

    I'm not ruling out that side effects of psychotropic drugs can contribute to insane decisions. But just because most gunmen took those drugs doesn't convince me either that they are the root cause.
    How much is Big Pharma paying you?!?!?!?!

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which was actually my point. These events aren't happening because of prescription medications or guns and banning either will not prevent them from happening in the future. They are isolated cases of messed up kids.
    $#@!,, I was a messed up kid. I went to school with a thousand other messed up kids..
    We had guns..

    None of this $#@! was happening.. but that was before this crap hit the population. Before ADD was invented for the Drugs to treat it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    $#@!,, I was a messed up kid. I went to school with a thousand other messed up kids..
    We had guns..

    None of this $#@! was happening.. but that was before this crap hit the population. Before ADD was invented for the Drugs to treat it.
    There also wasn't exceedingly violent video games and a culture that was increasingly morally relativistic.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by cbrons View Post
    There also wasn't exceedingly violent video games and a culture that was increasingly morally relativistic.
    Naw, we had "Combat" "The Rat patrol" and "Dark Shadows".

    Violence and Murder generally have a reason. A specific reason,, sometimes called motive.

    When someone with no history of violence kills for no apparent reason. (especially random and pointless killing)
    It does beg questions.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Naw, we had "Combat" "The Rat patrol" and "Dark Shadows".

    Violence and Murder generally have a reason. A specific reason,, sometimes called motive.

    When someone with no history of violence kills for no apparent reason. (especially random and pointless killing)
    It does beg questions.
    Well you haven't seen videogames these days. They are much more graphic, basically murder simulation exercises. I don't think you can compare the highly pixelated games of that era to today. Ever play Hitman?

    Anyway you've made it clear that you think doctors are quacks. Great, so riddle me this - how would someone of your intellectual caliber treat an individual with autism? Maybe you could tie the kid down to a gurney and stick him with needles? Trying to figure out what the new treatment protocols should be since science and allopathic medicine as an extension is all a conspiracy to enrich "BIG PHARMA" with their $10 per 90 capsules of generic Prozac.
    Last edited by cbrons; 01-15-2013 at 09:02 PM.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which was actually my point. These events aren't happening because of prescription medications or guns and banning either will not prevent them from happening in the future. They are isolated cases of messed up kids.
    The salient issue, regarding the mainstream coverage of each shooting, is the lack of media discussion of the prescription drugs, irrespective of a proposed solution. Why NO widespread discussion of the drug factor, compared to the gun factor? Why is there such a thing as a 'deleted Forbes article' on such a relevant aspect of the issue?
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by cbrons View Post
    Well you haven't seen videogames these days. They are much more graphic, basically murder simulation exercises. I don't think you can compare the highly pixelated games of that era to today. Ever play Hitman?
    Nope. I play Warcraft. I have seen some.
    We had books. Well, those of us that could read. And Hollywood had movies that were graphic.
    We also had the Vietnam War on TV. and even a censored as it was it was pretty graphic.

    Anyway you've made it clear that you think doctors are quacks.
    As far as how I would treat someone,, it would not be with mind numbing drugs.
    And I never said ALL Doctors are quacks.

    I said Psychiatry is Quackery.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 01-15-2013 at 10:11 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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