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Thread: Deleted Forbes Article: Psychiatric Drugs, Not A Lack Of Gun Control,-The Common Denominat

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    Default Deleted Forbes Article: Psychiatric Drugs, Not A Lack Of Gun Control,-The Common Denominat

    A Must Read for the 2nd Amendment-this is the article that somehow disappeared from Forbes website yesterday. H/T:TC

    -------EXCERPTS -full article available at link----------

    Psychiatric Drugs, Not A Lack Of Gun Control, Are The Common Denominator In Murderous Violence
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...rous-violence/
    Lawrence Hunter, Contributor - I write about the intersection of economics and politics.

    In 2000, New York legislators recognized the ubiquitous and unambiguous connection between violence, especially gun violence and mass murder, and the widespread prescribed use of psychiatric drugs. Senate Bill 7035 was introduced in the New York State Senate that year requiring police agencies to report to the Department of Criminal Justice Services (DCJS) on certain crimes and suicides committed by a person who is using psychiatric drugs, including assault, homicide, sex offenses, robbery offenses, firearms and other dangerous weapons offenses, kidnapping and arson. The preamble to the bill read, in part:

    There is a large body of scientific research establishing a connection between violence and suicide and the use of psychotropic drugs in some cases. This research, which has been published in peer reviewed publications such as the American Journal of Psychiatry, The Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, and The Journal of Forensic Science, has shown, among other things, that: certain drugs can induce mania (a psychosis which can produce bizarre, grandiose and highly elaborated destructive plans, including mass murder);. . .and certain drugs can produce an acute psychotic reaction in an individual not previously psychotic....>>MORE

    ------------------>>SNIP<<------------------------Full Article available here

    Given the mass of supporting data linking psychiatric drug use/withdrawal and violence, and given the fact it has been ignored studiously by the U.S. Congress and federal agencies, it is well past time that Congress and state legislatures and government agencies at all levels formally investigate the well established link between prescribed use of psychiatric drugs, school shootings and similar acts of senseless violence.

    This video reveals the indisputable connection between psychiatric drugs and violence, especially young “lone-wolf” shooters in gun massacres.

    As psychiatrist Peter Breggin observes in the video:

    “One of the things in the past that we’ve known about depression is that it very, very rarely leads to violence. It’s only been since the advent of these new SSRI drugs that we’ve had murderers even mass murders taking these antidepressant drugs.”


    Instead of intimidating the NRA into negotiating away Americans’ Second Amendment rights through its seat at the table in Washington, the government should be demanding answers and explanations from PhRMA and the pharmaceutical companies.

    Instead of extorting NRA chairman Dave Keene and NRA president Wayne LaPierre into participating with the gun snatchers’ efforts to nullify the Second Amendment in the name of reducing gun violence, why aren’t the White House and Congress putting former Business Roundtable President and current head of PhRMA, John Castellani, along with the presidents of the pharmaceutical companies on the hot seat?

    Why isn’t Castellani sitting in on White House and congressional meetings about the connection between his products and mass shootings instead of Keene and LaPierre of the NRA?

    Why isn’t there a White House Task Force on the connection between psychiatric drugs and violence, suicide and murder, both gun related and otherwise?

    Why aren’t there congressional hearings on the connection between violence and psychiatric drugs?


    Why aren’t there bills being introduced in Congress and state legislatures to tighten down on the indiscriminate, unmonitored use of these killer drugs?

    Why is the government still suppressing information about the shooters’ psychiatric drug use at Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech?

    Why is the government turning America into a police state in the name of protecting us against nonexistent “reefer madness” while it turns a blind eye to the real, deadly med madness created by psychiatric drugs and the uncontrollable violent rages they produce in some people?

    Could it be there is a quiet conspiracy afoot among pharmaceutical companies, the government and the gun grabbers to make Mr. and Mrs. Gun Owner of America the patsies for the violence and to blame lone-wolf violence on guns rather than psychiatric drugs?

    Could it be that power-hungry politicians and gun snatchers are out to exploit rare tragedies such as Sandy Hook and use the blood of innocent children to scare America into giving up its constitutional rights to own and bear arms and use them as a deterrent against tyranny?

    Could it be that big pharma is today’s big tobacco?

    Could it be there is an intentional effort underway in the centers of power in Washington, DC to hide the truth from the American people about the strong connection between psychiatric drugs and violence and to protect the pharmaceutical companies from civil and criminal charges for their responsibility in these heinous crimes?

    ------------------------------------>>SNIP<<----------FULL ARTICLE available here

    Could that be the explanation for why there continue to be lawsuits against gun manufacturers — not for defects in their products but rather for the misuse of their products by drug-addled individuals — and why there are few lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies for the obvious flaws in their products, which are producing violence and mayhem?

    Could it be the Gun Control movement is simply a blind; just an effort by the triple alliance of left-fascists, big-government politicians and big-pharma prescription-drug dealers to dose and oppress the American people in the name of public safety, “officer safety” and social order?

    The gun snatchers such as Sen. Dianne Feinstein, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg all shamefully exploit the bloody murder of children as a pretext to nullify the Second Amendment and short arm the American public with their so-called “assault-weapons” ban and ammunition/clip restrictions. The fact is, the kinds of guns used by mass shooters are far less relevant than the kinds of drugs they were prescribed.
    Why did Forbes delete this article from its website?
    Last edited by Peace Piper; 01-15-2013 at 07:10 AM.
    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." -- George Orwell



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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    Why did Forbes delete this article from it's website?
    Why indeed?.........

  4. #3

  5. #4

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    The percentage of people on these medications that commit mass murder is totally insignificant.
    It isn't guns, it isn't video games, it isn't mental illness, it isn't movies, it isn't drugs. It's a combination of everything. We can't just scapegoat "crazy people" or medication or guns or our culture.

  6. #5

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    2nd Amendment Kick

    This is one good argument, by Lawrence Hunter:

    About Me

    Lawrence Hunter is chairman of Revolution PAC. He also is president and co-founder of the Social Security Institute (along with Mike Korbey) and serves on the Advisory Board of Gold Standard 2012. Previously, he was chief economist to Jack Kemp at Empower America, former staff director of the congressional Joint Economic Committee, former vice president and chief economist of the U..S. Chamber of Commerce and former Reagan White House adviser.
    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." -- George Orwell

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    The percentage of people on these medications that commit mass murder is totally insignificant.
    NO it is not insignificant when considering that every Mass Shooting involved these drugs.
    It is the common denominator.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    The percentage of people on these medications that commit mass murder is totally insignificant.
    It isn't guns, it isn't video games, it isn't mental illness, it isn't movies, it isn't drugs. It's a combination of everything. We can't just scapegoat "crazy people" or medication or guns or our culture.
    Feel Free to explain the combination of these simple statistics:

    1. List of school shootings in the United States
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

    Prior to 1989, there were only a handful of incidents in which two or more victims were killed by firearms at a school, including the 1966 University of Texas massacre, the 1974 Olean High School shooting, the 1976 California State University, Fullerton massacre, and the 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (the 1927 Bath School disaster was a bombing, not a shooting, with a firearm used only to detonate explosives). School shootings prior to the late 1990s, when they received intensive press and official coverage, were considered local incidents and may be substantially underreported in current tabulations, raising questions as to whether school shootings are actually increasing or are simply receiving more attention in recent years. From 1989 to 2012, there have been at least 40 such incidents.

    2. The first SSRI (New design) Antidepressant --Prozac-- was introduced in 1987
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prozac

    Fluoxetine (also known by the tradenames Prozac, Sarafem, Fontex, among others) is an antidepressant of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) class. Fluoxetine was first documented in 1974 by scientists from Eli Lilly and Company.[1] It was presented to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in February 1977, with Eli Lilly receiving final approval to market the drug in December 1987. Fluoxetine went off-patent in August 2001

    3. Every school shooter (except apparently KY) has either been on, or withdrawing from, an antidepressant SSRI drug.
    http://ssristories.com/index.php


    Now what follows usually is someone says "correlation does not equal causation".

    Correct.

    That is why immediate examination by non involved, non partisan, non biased medical professionals must be a priority. Anything else is postponing the inevitable. There is clearly enough evidence to warrant immediate hearings.
    Last edited by Peace Piper; 01-15-2013 at 11:28 AM. Reason: forgot #3
    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." -- George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    Feel Free to explain the combination of these simple statistics:

    1. List of school shootings in the United States
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

    Prior to 1989, there were only a handful of incidents in which two or more victims were killed by firearms at a school, including the 1966 University of Texas massacre, the 1974 Olean High School shooting, the 1976 California State University, Fullerton massacre, and the 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (the 1927 Bath School disaster was a bombing, not a shooting, with a firearm used only to detonate explosives). School shootings prior to the late 1990s, when they received intensive press and official coverage, were considered local incidents and may be substantially underreported in current tabulations, raising questions as to whether school shootings are actually increasing or are simply receiving more attention in recent years. From 1989 to 2012, there have been at least 40 such incidents.

    2. The first SSRI (New design) Antidepressant --Prozac-- was introduced in 1987
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prozac

    Fluoxetine (also known by the tradenames Prozac, Sarafem, Fontex, among others) is an antidepressant of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) class. Fluoxetine was first documented in 1974 by scientists from Eli Lilly and Company.[1] It was presented to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in February 1977, with Eli Lilly receiving final approval to market the drug in December 1987. Fluoxetine went off-patent in August 2001

    Now what follows usually is someone says "correlation does not equal causation".

    Correct.

    That is why immediate examination by non involved, non partisan, non biased medical professionals must be a priority. Anything else is postponing the inevitable. There is clearly enough evidence to warrant immediate hearings.
    What is the endgame of all of this "pharmageddon"

  10. #9

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    Educating the public doesn't have to equate to legislation.

    The fact that John Q. doesn't know the hazards associated with most drugs is a travesty!

    Drug laws need to be repealed and the public needs honest information...

    What a nice fantasy..

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    NO it is not insignificant when considering that every Mass Shooting involved these drugs.
    It is the common denominator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    ...
    That is why immediate examination by non involved, non partisan, non biased medical professionals must be a priority. Anything else is postponing the inevitable. There is clearly enough evidence to warrant immediate hearings.
    This. Maybe instead of being of the defense (as we always are) we need to go on the offense and start demanding SSRIs be a major part of the national conversation on "reducing gun violence."
    "The State, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing."
    --Albert Jay Nock

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    Quote Originally Posted by pochy1776 View Post
    What is the endgame of all of this "pharmageddon"
    Social Control. Social Engineers attempting to create their version of utopia.

    it has a long and sorted history.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

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    Why? Because the media is just riddled with conflicts of interest, and this is just the latest example of why the media is so far removed from the 4th estate check-and-balance they were intended to be.
    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    "reducing gun violence."
    interesting concept there.

    I'll bet if we closed bases and brought our military home,, it would drastically reduce gun violence worldwide.

    without pills.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Educating the public doesn't have to equate to legislation.

    The fact that John Q. doesn't know the hazards associated with most drugs is a travesty!

    Drug laws need to be repealed and the public needs honest information...

    What a nice fantasy..
    Damn, out of ammo.

    somebody Rep that.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Damn, out of ammo.

    somebody Rep that.
    Done.
    "The State, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing."
    --Albert Jay Nock

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    BTW, there was already a thread literally right below this with 3 pages.
    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    interesting concept there.

    I'll bet if we closed bases and brought our military home,, it would drastically reduce gun violence worldwide.

    without pills.
    Yes. The mass murderer-in-chief really should start with himself.
    "The State, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing."
    --Albert Jay Nock

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    The percentage of people on these medications that commit mass murder is totally insignificant.
    It isn't guns, it isn't video games, it isn't mental illness, it isn't movies, it isn't drugs. It's a combination of everything. We can't just scapegoat "crazy people" or medication or guns or our culture.
    Good insight, KingI'veExaminedNothingButImmediatelyDiscountAnyth ingContreversial
    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    NO it is not insignificant when considering that every Mass Shooting involved these drugs.
    It is the common denominator.
    It is insignificant when you have millions on such drugs which DON"T go around killing anyone. The percent of people taking them commiting such acts is incredibly small. It is also an insignificantly small percent of gun owers or people with access to guns committing them. It is also an incrediibly small percent of all people with any particular charachteristics. One post cites the emergence of such drugs after 1989. We also had few people with internet access or playing lots of graphic video games. There are so many things one could try to blame it on- many common denominators. They were all also young. They were all aslo white males. Let's ban them too.

    But we have to blame something- don't we? Then we can feel good that we did "something" to try to prevent such a tragedy from happening again. We feel better. Even though it does little in reality.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-15-2013 at 03:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    It is insignificant when you have millions on such drugs which DON"T go around killing anyone.
    Do you understand the concept of Common Denominator?

    Millions of Gun owners do not shoot up schools.

    But every one that does is using these pills that are admittedly known to cause violent and suicidal reactions.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

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    It's all about Freedom

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    You are right. Guns were indeed the most common denominator. Would be impossible to shoot anybody without one. On pills or not. And as I said, millions of people with guns don't go around shooting innocent people up. And there are also millions of people taking those medications who are not shooting innocent people up.
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    So what's it going to take to get honest, unbiased information about guns/drugs and the law in front of the populace?

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You are right. Guns were indeed the most common denominator. Would be impossible to shoot anybody without one. On pills or not. And as I said, millions of people with guns don't go around shooting innocent people up. And there are also millions of people taking those medications who are not shooting innocent people up.
    Ummm, people react to medication differently than others, so your argument is flawed.

    You're absolutely right, having a gun may not be any better predictor of violence than taking a medication is that you will have a particular side effect, but it's pretty clear that there can be the potential for both with both, and when both are the common denominators, well, you decide if you want to investigate/point to the tool or the potentially behavior-altering medication.
    Last edited by TheGrinch; 01-15-2013 at 12:41 PM.
    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

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    Which came first? Behavior which led to them being prescribed medicine- behavior which could have led to their actions even if they were not given any meds? Or were they peaceful, well-adjusted people and the medications changed their behivior to being psychotic? Given the large numbers of people on the meds who don't go psychotic, I am more inclined to think that the behavior came first and that the meds were not the primary cause.
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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which came first?
    Oh, what an interesting question.
    Social Control.
    You seriously don't want to investigate that.

    These drugs are, by definition, Mind Control Drugs. Their entire purpose is to alter the mind.
    The people involved in their production and distribution have shown a serious lack of ethics historically.

    You don't even want to investigate that. You work too hard at discouraging any investigation.
    (usually citing gov approved sites as facts.)
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    OK- it was drugs. Let's ban all drugs- especially those which could altar the mind. Including alcohol and marijuana and LSD. That will surely stop people from shooting each other and everybody will be happy again.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this message. But you don't have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which came first? Behavior which led to them being prescribed medicine- behavior which could have led to their actions even if they were not given any meds? Or were they peaceful, well-adjusted people and the medications changed their behivior to being psychotic? Given the large numbers of people on the meds who don't go psychotic, I am more inclined to think that the behavior came first and that the meds were not the primary cause.
    I don't know, hence why it's important to investigate. Shame the media has too many conflicts of interests to allow that discussion.

    And seriously, have you ever listened to the side-effects of these drugs, and then tell me with a straight face that you're positive that they had nothing to do with otherwise non-violent people turn into killing machines due to depression?
    Last edited by TheGrinch; 01-15-2013 at 02:32 PM.
    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

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    Such events are too rare to find a single cause. And it is doubtful there is one cause.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this message. But you don't have to.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Such events are too rare to find a single cause. And it is doubtful there is one cause.
    Okay good, case closed, nothing to see here, I can see why they were right to pull any article that offers any sort of explanation. The govenrment and media know what they're doing and would never ever lie or cover up facts.
    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You are right. Guns were indeed the most common denominator. Would be impossible to shoot anybody without one. On pills or not. And as I said, millions of people with guns don't go around shooting innocent people up. And there are also millions of people taking those medications who are not shooting innocent people up.
    You can do much more carnage with a chainsaw... what's next?
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

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