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Thread: Libertarian Julie Borowski vs. the Leftist-Libertarian Thought Police

  1. #1

    Libertarian Julie Borowski vs. the Leftist-Libertarian Thought Police

    The Central Committee Has Handed Down Its Denunciation


    Tom Woods
    Jan 4, 2013


    Julie Borowski: Addressing the Lack of Female Libertarians

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nASPjBVQkQk


    Julie Borowski, who goes by Token Libertarian Girl on YouTube, makes some good videos and is a smart libertarian. The other day, though, she ran afoul of the Libertarian Thought Police, Humorless P.C. Automaton division.

    Julie made a video exploring why the libertarian movement attracts so few women. She gave an incorrect answer, according to the Banishers. The correct answer is that libertarians are mean and say mean things, and that this general libertarian perversity keeps women away. There cannot possibly be a male-female difference of any kind that might account for the disparity. This is ruled out a priori.

    Julie was thus subjected to the kind of stern ideological correction one would expect from leftists who have had their p.c. pieties challenged. This is no surprise, since these folks’ criticism of other libertarians is that we don’t embrace leftism with sufficient gusto.

    I won’t go through the whole dreary, predictable thing, which you can read for yourself.

    Among other things, Julie’s critics say she “slut shames women who engage in casual sex.” (Shows how sheltered I am: evidently there are people in the world who use the phrase “slut shames.”) Doesn’t Julie know that such behavior, far from being a “cause for shame,” is just one of the “complex choices that smart, thoughtful women can and do make”?

    And while of course the author of a blog post is not responsible for the comments readers leave, I found this one revealing: “Why does she [Borowski] rail against other women’s choices? Surely a core libertarian value is neutrality between different conceptions of the good?”

    Actually, no. I replied: “The core libertarian value is nonaggression. ‘Neutrality between different conceptions of the good’ has nothing to do with libertarianism. If you were truly neutral between different conceptions of the good, you wouldn’t be arguing against Julie’s conception of the good.”

    Unfortunately, this kind of thinking dominates a certain wing of the libertarian movement, which congratulates itself for its “thick” libertarianism, as opposed to the (I guess) thin kind embraced by the rest of us. Yes, yes, they concede, nonaggression is the key thing, but if you really want to promote liberty you can’t just oppose the state. You have to oppose “the patriarchy,” embrace countercultural values, etc.

    Then, once libertarianism has been made to seem as freakish and anti-bourgeois as possible, these same people turn around and blame the rest of us for why the idea isn’t more popular.

    Physician, heal thyself.

    Incidentally, by the reasoning of Julie’s critics, one would be led to the equally patronizing conclusion that the reason there are so few female chess champions is that women can’t succeed, or won’t even try, unless everything is just so. Since male/female differences are ruled out, what other explanation is left? Not enough “role models” for women? Then how did anyone, anywhere, ever start doing anything?

    GMU professor Bryan Caplan has also weighed in, suggesting that there may indeed be differences between men and women that might account for the discrepancy within libertarianism. (I can hardly wait for the shrill cries of “sexist” to overcome us all, though for various reasons I suspect Bryan will be allowed a pass.) Caplan writes:


    My study of personality psychology makes me one of the doubters. On the popular Myers-Briggs personality test, there is a huge Thinking-Feeling gap between men and women. For men, the breakdown is roughly 60% Thinking, 40% Feeling. For women, the breakdown is roughly 30% Thinking, 70% Feeling.

    This Thinking/Feeling disparity explains a lot about gender gaps in college major and occupation. There’s every reason to think that this disparity can help explain gender gaps in political and social views.

    To make a long story short: Thinking people tend to have “hard heads” and “hard hearts,” while Feeling people have “soft heads” and “soft hearts.” Unsurprisingly, then, Feeling people tend to hold more anti-market views. I’ve similarly found strong evidence that males “think more like economists.” This gender belief gap increases with education, consistent with a simple model where male and female students gradually learn more about whatever their personalities incline them to study….

    Libertarians can and should better market their ideas to women (and people, for that matter). But marketing can only do so much. Women really are more Feeling than men, and selling libertarianism to people with Feeling personalities is inherently difficult.


    Julie’s critics can’t conclude their attack without unbosoming the lasting trauma of the whole episode for them: today, because of Julie’s video, they’re “a little embarrassed to admit” they’re libertarians. Poor babies. To my knowledge, they have not expressed any embarrassment when libertarians have (for example) gratuitously insulted the religious beliefs of tens of millions of Americans in crude and ignorant ways. I suppose that’s designed to bring people into the fold?

    Obviously, what matters to these critics is not what will bring people to libertarianism or keep them out; if it did, the overall weirdness and reflexively anti-bourgeois posture of some of the loudest libertarians would be their first targets. What appears to matter is that on issues involving men and women (and other subjects, too, no doubt), the uttering of anything other than an exquisitely p.c. opinion is to be shunned as oh-so-embarrassing to libertarianism.

    I guess we have different views of what constitutes embarrassment.

    I say hooray for Julie Borowski, who through sheer hard work has made herself an increasingly accomplished and significant figure among young libertarians. Subscribe to her YouTube channel — and, while you’re at it, mine too.


    SOURCE:
    http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/the-cen...-denunciation/
    ----

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  3. #2
    Don't tell my wife that I'm in love with Julie Borowski, 'kay?

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Don't tell my wife that I'm in love with Julie Borowski, 'kay?
    Reported.

    (lol, me too)
    Last edited by Origanalist; 01-04-2013 at 09:34 PM.
    "The Patriarch"

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Reported.

    (lol, me too)

    Me, three.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  6. #5
    Also, small business owners and people interested in economics tend to be male.
    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% [the same on issues]." Ron Paul

  7. #6
    Because women make decisions on 'feelings'. All a marxist has to do is say: "do it for the children", and it passes.

  8. #7
    Haha, loved this...and she is 100% right.

  9. #8
    Whats up with her tongue?


    But I'm pretty sure that the reason why most females are not libertarian has absolutely nothing to do with Cosmopolitan magazine. Most males are not libertarian either, but Im not going to blame it on Sports Illustrated.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BAllen View Post
    Because women make decisions on 'feelings'. All a marxist has to do is say: "do it for the children", and it passes.
    Emotional decision making is not inherently female, men make decisions based on emotion as well.

    Ethos, Pathos, Logos.
    Last edited by VoluntaryAmerican; 01-04-2013 at 10:09 PM.
    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% [the same on issues]." Ron Paul

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VoluntaryAmerican View Post
    Emotional decision making is not inherently female, men make decisions based on emotion as well.
    Naw, I've never seen a pissed off guy do anything illogical.
    "The Patriarch"

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Naw, I've never seen a pissed off guy do anything illogical.
    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% [the same on issues]." Ron Paul

  14. #12
    "In general", does not mean "All", that's why there are some libertarian women and some libertarian men.
    I don't know all women, so, I think I'll stop there.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by VoluntaryAmerican View Post
    Stop it! You're making me cry.....
    "The Patriarch"

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Don't tell my wife that I'm in love with Julie Borowski, 'kay?
    Yes, except, not married.

  17. #15
    Pretty much every generalization she made about women could be made about men. The majority of men are every bit as dumb and conformist as women. She still hasn't answered the question; and no I don't have the answer either.
    Last edited by fr33; 01-04-2013 at 11:51 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Don't tell my wife that I'm in love with Julie Borowski, 'kay?
    Julie is very nice, but I'm a one-woman type of guy - and Amanda BillyRock done stole my heart ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJjt72zRoOw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47EC6kKNISQ

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 01-05-2013 at 12:18 AM.
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  20. #17
    If you want to see her, Tom Woods and Shem, they will all be at Liberty Forum. It is only $99 for 4 days and free for those under 18. Ron Paul's Freaking Giant runs the event.

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    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 01-05-2013 at 12:18 AM.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  21. #18
    ^^According to the people in Keene, NH; she should rename here youtube account to tokenrepublicangirl. I've heard 2 shows on LRN that have criticized her for supporting Rand Paul. One guest host on FTL even suggested she supported Romney, which she didn't. Go to Keene, NH if you want to be a hipster libertarian and want to lose every time for the sake of being a rebel. Apparently Rand Paul is off-limits to the FSP. They want to stand around and shout, and never accomplish anything.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    ^^According to the people in Keene, NH; she should rename here youtube account to tokenrepublicangirl. I've heard 2 shows on LRN that have criticized her for supporting Rand Paul. One guest host on FTL even suggested she supported Romney, which she didn't. Go to Keene, NH if you want to be a hipster libertarian and want to lose every time for the sake of being a rebel. Apparently Rand Paul is off-limits to the FSP. They want to stand around and shout, and never accomplish anything.
    I know a couple FSPers who have won elections in Keene. Certainly, though, I doubt a lot of the anarchcapitalists or voluntaryists in Keene would support her. There is a lot of diversity in the liberty movement. I think some in Keene would like her to move to Keene.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Pretty much every generalization she made about women could be made about men. The majority of men are every bit as dumb and conformist as women. She still hasn't answered the question; and no I don't have the answer either.
    True, but I think she's spot on, women are more likely to care about what is fashionable, trendy, and popular with other women. Whether this is the result of some innate difference between the sexes, or the result of conditioning and years of targeted marketing, is beside the point... There are few libertarian examples in pop culture and libertarianism is the last thing that is trendy with women. Even conservatism isn't trendy. Whereas progressive causes are very popular. There are progressive celebrities in every aspect of popular culture.

    Anyway I think her video is hilarious. She obviously touched a nerve with her critics.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    I know a couple FSPers who have won elections in Keene. Certainly, though, I doubt a lot of the anarchcapitalists or voluntaryists in Keene would support her. There is a lot of diversity in the liberty movement. I think some in Keene would like her to move to Keene.

    This is why the affection for labels is so retarded.

    Not condemning your post, only making a general point.

    I support people who want as much freedom as possible. More the better. A person need not fit my exact view to receive my support, nor must they put forth only efforts of which I approve as helpful to the cause. We're all different and bring something different to the table.

    To be so picky and stuck on freedom label vs freedom label is petty, and unbecoming an individualistic mind.

    Julie is a freedom lover.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  25. #22
    That video was like watching some of the random thoughts that go through my mind being acted out right in front of me. Even down to that same exact magazine that I rolled my eyes at, standing in line at the grocery store a few days ago.

  26. #23
    Uh, maybe it's too late at night, but Woods and Borowski aren't really making a lot of sense here (other than pointing out shallow popular culture). What exactly is the point? Can someone summarize?

    Does Woods dispute the Myers/Briggs point, or does he agree?
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 01-05-2013 at 02:56 AM.
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  27. #24
    Is it just me or is Tom Woods freaking funny as hell?



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  29. #25
    Tom and Julie are right. Women's brains simply are wired differently, and hence, are less susceptible to the argumentation that is generally made on the behalf of libertarianism. There are a lot of emotional arguments to be made for libertarianism, but it seems those are not as...widespread. That is one thing 17th and 18th century radical liberals got correct - use EMOTION to drive home points. We all should be mad as hell that we're getting stolen from through taxation, eminent domain seizures, and seizures through police and courts. Not to mention the TSA... How the $#@!! Anyways - you're probably better off using emotional arguments when you're talking to a women, and vice versa for men. Simple physiology.
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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystopian View Post
    Whats up with her tongue?
    There is only one success -- to be able to spend your life in your own way.
    -- Christopher Morley (1890 - 1957)

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Czolgosz View Post
    This is why the affection for labels is so retarded.

    Not condemning your post, only making a general point.

    I support people who want as much freedom as possible. More the better. A person need not fit my exact view to receive my support, nor must they put forth only efforts of which I approve as helpful to the cause. We're all different and bring something different to the table.

    To be so picky and stuck on freedom label vs freedom label is petty, and unbecoming an individualistic mind.

    Julie is a freedom lover.
    + rep. To argue over division lines at this point is beyond stupid. Let's at least try to get to the point where it's even relevant first. When and if government gets small, then we can argue over the fine points.
    "The Patriarch"

  32. #28
    OK, this is going to be the most unpopular post in this thread so get ready to flame away!

    I think she's mostly correct about pop culture influence on (young) women, but I think she takes it a bit too far with her over-the-top theatrics. I've always found her videos to be somewhat annoying because of that. She could be a huge influence to the women in her peer group, but instead she's taken the approach of ridiculing them over purchasing choices. I think it's understandable that they're turned off by her snarkiness with regard to their desire to be fashionable and attractive (things that have nothing whatsoever to do with one's political views).

    Yes, these are superficial concerns that young women tend to have, but that's not going to change anytime soon. And why does it have to? One can be fashion-conscious and libertarian at the same time (seems Julie herself fits that description, no?) IMO, she should use her platform to find common ground with those in her peer group rather than deriding them over petty shopping habits.

    I love Tom Woods and I deeply respect his opinion, so I really wanted to see his point about this. And I DO think Tom (and Julie) have a point, and Julie is NOT WRONG....just that I think she should be taking a different approach to encourage women in her peer group to join the liberty movement. Ridiculing people for choices they make that have nothing to do with politics rarely gets that job done.
    Last edited by cajuncocoa; 01-05-2013 at 09:29 AM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Don't tell my wife that I'm in love with Julie Borowski, 'kay?
    Such a babe.
    For Liberty - Feature-length doc about the 2008 R3V | Twitter

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Julie is very nice, but I'm a one-woman type of guy - and Amanda BillyRock done stole my heart ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJjt72zRoOw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47EC6kKNISQ

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.
    You may be jealous to know that she emails me her latest uploads...

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