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Thread: If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

  1. #1

    If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

    http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2...lity-to-fight/

    h/t westernrifleshooters

    I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them. I blame traditional media sources for this mass brainwash and I carry the responsibility of all small independent bloggers to tell the truth. So my focus today is to lay out your constitutional rights as an American, and let you decide what to do with those rights.

    About a month ago I let the “democracy” word slip in a discussion with a fellow blogger. I know better. Americans have been conditioned to use this term. It’s not an accurate term and it never has been a correct term to describe our form of government. The truth is that the United States of America is a constitutional republic. This is similar to a democracy because our representatives are selected by democratic elections, but ultimately our representatives are required to work within the framework of our constitution. In other words, even if 90% of Americans want something that goes against our founding principles, they have no right to call for a violation of constitutional rights.

    If you are religious you might choose to think of it this way… Say that members of your congregation decide that mass fornication is a good thing. Do they have the right to change the teachings of your God? The truth is the truth. It doesn’t matter how many people try to stray from it. Did I just compare our founders to God? In a way I did, but please note that I am not trying to insult anyone. For the purpose of the American Government our constitution and founders who wrote it are much like God is to believers. It is the law. It is indisputable.

    Our founders did not want a “democracy” for they feared a true democracy was just as dangerous as a monarchy. The founders were highly educated people who were experienced in defending themselves against tyranny. They understood that the constitution could protect the people by limiting the power of anyone to work outside of it much better than a pure system of popularity. A system of checks and balances was set up to help limit corruption of government and also the potential for an “immoral majority” developing within the American People. We have forgotten in this country that we are ultimately ruled by a constitution.

    Why is a democracy potentially just as dangerous as a monarchy? Let’s look at something that Benjamin Franklin said because it answers that question more fully and succinctly than I can.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin
    Even 230+ years ago our founders were perceptive enough to realize that democracy was a dangerous form of government. How so? Because the citizens of a country can become just as corrupt as any government. We have seen evidence of this throughout history. Ask Native Americans and African-Americans if this population can become corrupt.

    I think in 2012 we are seeing evidence of what Franklin was trying to tell us. Just because a majority of people may support certain ideas it does not mean that those ideas are just. In simple terms, just because most Americans love our president and voted for him, it does not mean that he has the power to go against our constitutional rights.

    Next I’d like to review the text of the second amendment. It is very clear. This is the law of this land. So when Senator Feinstein or President Obama talk about taking your guns, you need to think about something. Are they honoring their sworn oath to uphold the constitution?

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    This is a pretty clear statement. The fact is that it took 232 years for the Supreme Court to even rule on this amendment because it has never been successfully challenged. In 2008 a case of Columbia v. Heller the Supreme Court ruled that a handgun ban in Washington D.C. was unconstitutional. One also has to take this into consideration. The Supreme Court supports your right to own guns. If you want to research this decision further you can start here.

    For those who try to debate the spirit of the 2nd amendment, they are truly no different from people who will try to take Biblical quotes out of context to try to support their immoral decisions. The founders were very clear on the intent of the 2nd amendment. Let me share a few quick quotes here:

    The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson

    Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good. -George Washington

    The Constitution shall never be construed….to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams
    I could find hundreds of quotes like these. This country was built on the right to bear arms. It was built on the rights of an individual to bear arms, regardless of what his government or neighbor happened to think. This is crystal clear. Ironically the people who voice their opinions against this right have their free speech protected by your guns. Without guns in this country, all other amendments become null and void, simply because “We the People” will lose our power of enforcement.

    We need to keep this in mind as our “representatives” try to push gun bans. I don’t care if 99% of people are in support of gun bans (which is far from the case), it is a violation of our constitutional rights, plain and simple.

    A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.

    Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns, they are violating one of my constitutional rights that is covered by the 2nd amendment.

    It is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.

    If they come for our guns then it is our constitutional right to put them six feet under. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson’s quote. He talks about a “last resort.” I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights as an American citizen. Only you can choose to give up your rights.

    Congress could pass gun ban legislation by a 90%+ margin and it just would not matter. I think some people are very unclear on this. This is the reason we have a Supreme Court, and though I do not doubt that the Supreme Court can also become corrupt, in 2008 they got it right. They supported the constitution. It does not matter what the majority supports because America is not a democracy. A constitutional republic protects the rights of every single citizen, no matter what their “elected servants” say. A majority in America only matters when the constitution is not in play.

    I just wrote what every believer in the constitution wants to say, and what every constitutional blogger needs to write. The truth of the matter is that this type of speech is viewed as dangerous and radical or subversive, and it could gain me a world of trouble that I do not want. It is also the truth. To make myself clear I will tell you again. If they come for your guns it is your right to use those guns against them and to kill them. You are protected by our constitution.

    Most of the articles I am reading on the subject are trying to give you clues without just coming out and saying it. I understand that because certain things in this country will get you on a list that you don’t want to be on. I may well be on that list. This blog is small and growing so I may not be there yet, but I have dreams. I also have my own list of subversives and anyone who attempts to deny my constitutional rights is on that list.

    I am not the “subversive” here, it is the political representatives who are threatening to take away my inalienable rights. If they come to take my guns and I leave a few of them wounded or dead, and I somehow survive, I have zero doubt that I will spend a long time in prison and may face an execution. But I would much rather be a political prisoner than a slave.

    If I go down fighting then I was not fighting to harm these human beings. I was simply defending my liberty and yours. It is self-defense and it is what our country was built on. We won our freedom in self-defense. We would not be ruled by a tyrannical government in the 1770′s and we will not be ruled in 2012 by a tyrannical government. There is no difference.

    This is a case of right and wrong. As of now the 2nd amendment stands. It has never been repealed. If Feinstein or Barack have a problem with the constitution then they should be removed from office. They are not defending the constitution which they have sworn an oath to protect. It is treasonous to say the least. They would likely say the same about me, but I have the constitution, the founders, and the supreme court on my side. They only have their inflated egos.

    I am not writing this to incite people. I am writing this in hopes that somehow I can make a tiny difference. I have no idea how many of my neighbors have the will to defend their constitutional rights. 2%? 20%? I am afraid that 20% is a high number, unfortunately. When push comes to shove many people may give up and submit to being ruled. I believe that our government is banking on this.

    What I do know is that this country was founded by people who had balls the size of Texas and Patriotic Americans take $#@! off of no one, especially our own government. For evidence of that, you might research the Revolutionary War. My question is how many Patriots are left?

    I would hope that our officials come to realize that, regardless of our numbers, we still exist because they are calling Patriotic Americans to action. They are making us decide if we want to die free or submit to their rule. I can not tell you where you should stand on that. I do know that it may make the difference between living a life of freedom or slavery.

    You must start thinking about this because I believe that the day is coming soon and I personally believe it has already been planned. Not all conspiracy theories are hogwash. They may throw down the gauntlet soon and my suggestion is that you prepare yourself to react.

    I mean no disrespect to our elected officials but they need to understand that “We the People” will not be disarmed. If they proceed then it is they that are provoking us and we will act accordingly. We are within our rights to do so.

    For those who are in support of taking the guns, you need to ask yourself a very important question, and I am not just talking about the politicians, because if you support them, you have chosen your side.

    Are you willing to die to take my guns?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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  3. #2
    I never applied for a permit to get a gun because I don't want to go on the list of "gun-toting terrorists" but I also don't want to get shot and mugged trying to get a simple pistol to defend myself "illegally"
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  4. #3
    If we could transpose ourselves to the days of the founders, I doubt the American people of today would resist if the Redcoats came for the contents of the Lexington town armory.

    Well, for one, we have no town armories. Things have changed since the early days of our country. There are no stockpiles of ammo located next to city halls. No artillery. There are no requirements for training with militia. Well, there is no militia (except for a few folks in Minnesota). There is no standard among gun owners for equipment. All the guys with .223 would probably shrug it off if the Brits came for the 7.62, and vice-versa. ("Man, I'm glad they're not coming for ours." you know the sort?). There would be no early warning. There will be no Paul Reveres. I doubt few would listen even if there were. The internet would be shut down, and who the hell rides a horse or knows how to light a lantern these days?

    And of course, we vote. As long as people have the right to vote, they maintain some sense of illusion that they could always just get freedom back if they just campaign hard. I sometimes have my moments of high hopes as well.

    But, then again, it's rediculous when you consider the fact that the British government has never given back a freedom which it took away.

    EDIT: Damn that was depressing. I just depressed myself. I'm glad we don't live under the British anymore, though.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 01-04-2013 at 08:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  5. #4
    +rep

    Great article. Read it and shared it on Farcebook for what it is worth.
    “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.” Lying Sack of Crap

  6. #5
    Sure we have a responsibility to fight. Remember however that most of us at the vanguard of the liberty movement will be the first to be targeted, and therefore those likely to see this post will be the ones who have to face the death squads all alone, with no help in sight or incoming. It won't be until many of us hard core loners go out in very public blaze of glory that people will start banding together.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Sure we have a responsibility to fight. Remember however that most of us at the vanguard of the liberty movement will be the first to be targeted, and therefore those likely to see this post will be the ones who have to face the death squads all alone, with no help in sight or incoming. It won't be until many of us hard core loners go out in very public blaze of glory that people will start banding together.
    One of the lines of thought that have me thinking about joining a militia. It would be nice to be in direct contact with some local people in the same boat that I am in.
    “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.” Lying Sack of Crap

  8. #7
    Great read and even better that it was not a wall of text
    ty
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  9. #8
    bump
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    I never applied for a permit to get a gun because I don't want to go on the list of "gun-toting terrorists" but I also don't want to get shot and mugged trying to get a simple pistol to defend myself "illegally"
    That kind of anonymity and security only comes with large, off the books purchases. But hey look at it this way, it'd be an entrance to being self employed. LOL

  12. #10
    You have a responsibility not to comply.

    If that leads to or precipitates a fight, then so be it, let it come.

    Enough talk already.

  13. #11
    If you took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, you have a duty to fight.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  14. #12
    Also, a common tactic in Congress is to make people think they are about to send out goons to round up guns, in order to slip something 'less draconian' in and everybody feel relieved. So don't forget that.

  15. #13
    "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." —Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
    "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." —Jeff Cooper

    Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.

  16. #14
    The tyrants who would take self defense from the people will not be the ones dying.

    Obligated to fight? Hard to say... I hope I do.
    Best of luck in life.

  17. #15
    As a Veteran of OUR armed forces, I am duty bound to support and defend our Constitution. That is all that needs to be said.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  18. #16
    Another point that may be worthy of bringing up.

    During a crime many of rules we live by under normal circumstances, no longer apply.




    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

    ~Edmund Burke



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Sure we have a responsibility to fight. Remember however that most of us at the vanguard of the liberty movement will be the first to be targeted, and therefore those likely to see this post will be the ones who have to face the death squads all alone, with no help in sight or incoming. It won't be until many of us hard core loners go out in very public blaze of glory that people will start banding together.

    In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.


    -Mark Twain 1904

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bolil View Post
    The tyrants who would take self defense from the people will not be the ones dying.

    Obligated to fight? Hard to say... I hope I do.
    Why shouldn't they be.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    If we could transpose ourselves to the days of the founders, I doubt the American people of today would resist if the Redcoats came for the contents of the Lexington town armory.

    This is an important point. People today are no different than people back then.

    The way it worked in the 1700's was to leave the $#@!s behind and start new. Declare our Independence, write a Contract (v2 should be plain and simple), and move on w/ our lives. Yes, there will be war w/ imperial Amerika.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post

    In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.


    -Mark Twain 1904
    3% into the 30%.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  24. #21
    Enough semantics. "Duty." "Responsibility."

    Personal choice. For whatever reason. I'm not feeling particularly heroic over the decisions being forced on me. I'm feeling pissed off and put on.

    I'm done with it. I've argued for almost 50 years.

    I know no other way then saying leave me and mine, mine including many across this nation with the same beliefs, the $#@! alone or I will be forced to kill you.

    I'm sure I just violated some forum guideline. I don't care. I've made the arguments I felt I needed to on this site.

    I'm done with word games.

    Every article in the MSM tells me I should subject myself to being killed by either Cops or Gangs. I Choose neither.


    <reported myself>

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Enough semantics. "Duty." "Responsibility."

    Personal choice. For whatever reason. I'm not feeling particularly heroic over the decisions being forced on me. I'm feeling pissed off and put on.

    I'm done with it. I've argued for almost 50 years.

    I know no other way then saying leave me and mine, mine including many across this nation with the same beliefs, the $#@! alone or I will be forced to kill you.

    I'm sure I just violated some forum guideline. I don't care. I've made the arguments I felt I needed to on this site.

    I'm done with word games.

    Every article in the MSM tells me I should subject myself to being killed by either Cops or Gangs. I Choose neither.


    <reported myself>
    +1 reported. Enough talk.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  26. #23
    Look, if they come for the arms, people are going to die. Bottom line.

    If they play the gun confiscation game, anyone who gifts away and/or registers their arms will be screwed. Would you rather waste away in a prison, under indefinite detention laws, or would you rather die knowing you fought the bastards? Is slavery freedom now?

    Like everything else in life, USE IT OR LOSE IT.


    For your consideration:








    Battle music for your motivation:



    Last edited by pacelli; 01-06-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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  27. #24
    Bump
    "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." —Jeff Cooper

    Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.



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  29. #25
    Bump
    “The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other type of arms. The possession of these elements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to permit uprising, therefore, the heads of the provinces, official agents, and deputies are ordered to collect all weapons mentioned above and turn them over to the government.”

    Toyotomi Hideyshi, Shogun, August 29, 1558




  30. #26
    //
    Maxed out to ALL of Ron Paul's campaigns.

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  31. #27
    As AF said, you have a responsibility not to comply. What happens after that will not be your fault.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    As AF said, you have a responsibility not to comply. What happens after that will not be your fault.
    That is how I see it , bad choices by others are not my responsibility.

  33. #29
    If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?
    Every single American has the responsibility to defend the right for all other individuals to make the choice for themselves to own a gun.

    At least, until said individuals show beyond any reasonable doubt that they should not be trusted with a gun. One thing I never hear gun rights advocates complain about is the right of an individual to have a gun while being incarcerated for an armed robbery, or anyone else that in jail for pretty much any reason, including unconstitutional ones like smoking pot.

    However, once a convicted criminal has paid their debt to society for what ever their crime was that they were convicted of, do you think that the individuals right to bear arms should be completely restored?


    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    That is how I see it , bad choices by others are not my responsibility.
    I believe it is still your (and mine) responsibility to protect the ability of those other individuals to make those bad choices to begin with. But I understand where you're coming from.
    1776 > 1984

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  34. #30
    America is not "united" to fight against tyranny. Poor, Rich, Middle Class, Black, White, Asian-American, Japanese-American, Chinese-American, Indian-American, Native American, Gay, Straight, West Coast, East Coast, Texan, Californian, New Yorker, etc etc..

    Most of us will roll over or dont give a damn. We are too placid and are not cohesive.

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