Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 142

Thread: Is anyone here receiving a govt. pension, social security or support payments from govt?

  1. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Land of Indians
    Posts
    24,898

    Default

    No , I recv no government benefits , I use roads , pay for that in gas taxes that are near $1 per gallon , license and license plate fees , auto sales tax. I use the Post office and pay near a $1 to mail two letters.The only govt benefits I use are covered in Article One Section Eight and my State Constitution.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    If so... would you mind telling us what it is (pension, benefits, SS, Medicaid/care, or whatever) - and how do you feel about receiving these benefits in light of the current economic situation (govt. is broke).
    Is the government being broke something we should try to avoid?

    Should we also be helping the Mafia with its finances?
    I知 not a libertarian. I知 not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  4. #63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Is the government being broke something we should try to avoid?

    Should we also be helping the Mafia with its finances?

    What is the meaning of this post?

  5. #64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    What is the meaning of this post?
    It was two questions.
    I知 not a libertarian. I知 not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  6. #65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    direct question - the US govt. is running a $1.6 trillion yearly deficit. should not all payouts be reduced across the board for everyone receiving govt. $$ to bring this to $0 ? and we haven't even started to get into the 50-70 trillion in unfunded liabilities promised...

    to other posters who say "take what you can now" - how is the system crashing faster going to change things for the better? it's just more debt being pushed off that has to be paid eventually - either through inflation, a lower standard of living or higher taxes. you think govt. is going to get smaller? is there ANY time in history where a currency collapsed and the govt. didn't get bigger and make life worse for it's citizens? this is like eating sugar for years and the dentist telling you to stop or your teeth will rot and you'll need dentures - then they do -- and you find out dentures suck. it's not sunshine and roses coming.. it's misery.
    depends on how old you are on when it would be better for the economy/government to finally crash and burn.
    if you are younger, the quicker it happens, the better- because you'd have time to rebuild your wealth(possibly).
    if you are older, you want to keep kicking the can down to your grandkids in hopes you'll punch-out before the economy does.

    You're a backer of
    Lavabit's Dark Mail Initiative


    by Ladar Levison

  7. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    It was two questions.
    how would you answer them? you must have an opinion or wouldn't have crafted them.

  8. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yes, pretty much. How to not pay into the system, legally.


    As long as we continue to fund this crap, it will exist. I understand the need for working - bringing home more money than welfare and other programs pay, but people putting money into the bottomless pit of need are possibly a bigger problem than people taking money out.
    I have often thought the same thing. I know that the protection racket people bang enough tax protestors to keep most people in line, but everyone should be seeking a way to eliminate contributions to the beast.

    though, if you think about it- if everyone stopped sending in their protection payments tomorrow, uncle Ben could just print up what the government wanted, and steal the wealth from the people that way.

    You're a backer of
    Lavabit's Dark Mail Initiative


    by Ladar Levison

  9. #68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    how would you answer them? you must have an opinion or wouldn't have crafted them.
    No to both.

    But I'm not the person who wrote the OP.
    I知 not a libertarian. I知 not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  10. #69

    Default

    The state is not the people. The state is force.
    There is nothing wrong with accepting the money it dishes out to placate you. Just try to use it for good, and don't become dependent.

    I don't receive anything myself.

  11. #70

    Default

    I receive nothing from the state. All I get is my income stolen from me.

  12. #71

    Default

    Everyone gets something from the state. You get it in the form of subsidies either direct or indirect. We are spending what 40% more then what we're taking in? Everyone is getting some bennifit from those dollars that were created out of nothing. Even if you don't see it show up in your checking account.

    As for direct payments from the government and whether they should be changed? I think we all need to suffer equally for our transgresions.

  13. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jingles View Post
    I receive nothing from the state. All I get is my income stolen from me.
    No roads, no police, no fire fighter, no water/gas/electric lines, no groceries, hospitals, etc etc etc. We're all getting something from "the system". You're welcome to argue if you're getting back your fair share but we're all getting something.

  14. #73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Everyone is getting some benefit from those dollars that were created out of nothing.
    No, that is the opposite of how it works.

    Those dollars that are created out of nothing don't come with things to buy that also come from nothing. All the goods, services, and so on that exist with those dollars would exist without them (or, more likely, some even better arrangement of goods and services would). They would just have smaller price tags. What these dollars created out of nothing result in is that a greater portion of all the existing goods and services are getting allocated by the government than would be otherwise.
    I知 not a libertarian. I知 not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  15. #74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    No roads, no police, no fire fighter, no water/gas/electric lines, no groceries, hospitals, etc etc etc. We're all getting something from "the system". You're welcome to argue if you're getting back your fair share but we're all getting something.
    Yay, the "public goods" fallacy again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  16. #75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yay, the "public goods" fallacy again!
    Public good or not. Everyone benifits in some form or fasion from our government existing even if those "dollars" could be better allocated or used by an individual. Every dollar you pay into taxes doesn't just poof into nothing (although most do).

  17. #76

    Default

    No, that is the opposite of how it works.
    No, that is how it has worked. You are confusing idealist economics (what could/should have happened
    ) vs. the reality of what has actually transpired. Jbauer is right IMHO

  18. #77

    Default

    I don't get any benefits, and I stopped teaching as soon as I could get another job, mainly because I didn't feel right taking money from the state.

    I see no problem with other people taking money from the state. What I do have a problem with, and it really annoys me on this board, is when SS/Medicare recipients support continuing the system because they paid in. That is nonsense. Money is being stolen from me to pay for that right now. So take the money if it's there, but support ending it now.

  19. #78

    Default

    I get payments from my GI Bill and disability payments from the VA for a service-connected disability. Can I live without either of these benefits? Easily.

    I'm sure many people on this forum will disagree with me and think that I shouldn't continue to accept this money from the state, but here's my philosophy:

    I pay thousands upon thousands of dollars each year in taxes to a government that is misappropriating my funds and engaging in unconstitutional wars. Our true voices in government have been stifled, and it's rare that we see any form of "fair" election at the federal level. Since the government isn't using my funds appropriately and I don't really get a say in how they need to be spent, I feel as though I deserve a refund. I simply see accepting these payments from the state as a means for getting back a small amount of the misused money I pay in taxes.

    Kinda roundabout, I guess, but that's my justification. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Aeroneous; 01-03-2013 at 08:23 PM.

  20. #79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post

    though, if you think about it- if everyone stopped sending in their protection payments tomorrow, uncle Ben could just print up what the government wanted, and steal the wealth from the people that way.
    At least the inflation would start at the bottom.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  21. #80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroneous View Post
    I get payments from my GI Bill and disability payments from the VA for a service-connected disability. Can I live without either of these benefits? Easily.

    I'm sure many people on this forum will disagree with me and think that I shouldn't continue to accept this money from the state, but here's my philosophy:

    I pay thousands upon thousands of dollars each year in taxes to a government that is misappropriating my funds and engaging in unconstitutional wars. Our true voices in government have been stifled, and it's rare that we see any form of "fair" election at the federal level. Since the government isn't using my funds appropriately and I don't really get a say in how they need to be spent, I feel as though I deserve a refund. I simply see accepting these payments from the state as a means for getting back a small amount of the misused money I pay in taxes.

    Kinda roundabout, I guess, but that's my justification. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
    You're not.

    The public-works fallacy is the same as the broken-window fallacy. Just because the State is providing you services does not mean you are benefiting from these services. If you compare the costs (the unseen) to the benefits (the seen) of public works you realize that the State is a net burden on your existence and the only way to liberate yourself from the State is to reclaim your rightful property in anyway you can.
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Sam Adams

  22. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Public good or not. Everyone benifits in some form or fasion from our government existing even if those "dollars" could be better allocated or used by an individual. Every dollar you pay into taxes doesn't just poof into nothing (although most do).
    /facepalm SMH... You have some reading to do. Pages 3-32 here:http://mises.org/books/economicsethics.pdf " ("Fallacies of the Public Goods Theory and the Production of Security", Hoppe.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  23. #82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    You're not.

    The public-works fallacy is the same as the broken-window fallacy. Just because the State is providing you services does not mean you are benefiting from these services. If you compare the costs (the unseen) to the benefits (the seen) of public works you realize that the State is a net burden on your existence and the only way to liberate yourself from the State is to reclaim your rightful property in anyway you can.
    Well-played, sir! +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  24. #83

    Default

    Since the government does not create wealth, the public services provided to a society are provided with wealth originally taken from the society. To say someone is personally gaining from something that was taken from them to begin with is a fallacy.

  25. #84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock View Post
    Since the government does not create wealth, the public services provided to a society are provided with wealth originally taken from the society. To say someone is personally gaining from something that was taken from them to begin with is a fallacy.
    If everything that was taken from everyone was given back to everyone proportionally, this would be true. Unfortunately the government redistributes wealth and there are people who DO get wealth FROM the state WITHOUT paying in their fair share. It's messed up, isn't it? We pay taxes so that urban inner-city fat mothers with ten kids that don't want to work can talk to their friends on their Obamaphone.

  26. #85

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroneous View Post
    If everything that was taken from everyone was given back to everyone proportionally, this would be true. Unfortunately the government redistributes wealth and there are people who DO get wealth FROM the state WITHOUT paying in their fair share. It's messed up, isn't it? We pay taxes so that urban inner-city fat mothers with ten kids that don't want to work can talk to their friends on their Obamaphone.
    Redistribution of wealth is a different subject.

    On a macro level public services (roads, police, fire) are paid for with wealth that was taken from the population already. It is like taking water from the deep end of a pool and pouring it into the shallow end. Nothing is gained, just displaced inefficiently. I should of quoted the poster on the other page that was saying that "everyone gets something from the state". I say that is not true because they took it from you to begin with.

  27. #86

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock View Post
    Redistribution of wealth is a different subject.

    On a macro level public services (roads, police, fire) are paid for with wealth that was taken from the population already. It is like taking water from the deep end of a pool and pouring it into the shallow end. Nothing is gained, just displaced inefficiently. I should of quoted the poster on the other page that was saying that "everyone gets something from the state". I say that is not true because they took it from you to begin with.
    True. Like many other areas in economics though, micro elements will often screw up the best laid macro intentions.

  28. #87

    Default

    I took a student loan from the state for $3750. I'm not even sure why I took it. I have the cash to pay for it this very instant if I need to. I am very fortunate that that is the only debt I currently have until i buy a house.
    No more IRS.
    I am now old enough to vote.

  29. #88
    Truth is treason ... Occam's Banana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Empire of Lies
    Posts
    7,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock View Post
    Redistribution of wealth is a different subject.

    On a macro level public services (roads, police, fire) are paid for with wealth that was taken from the population already. It is like taking water from the deep end of a pool and pouring it into the shallow end. Nothing is gained, just displaced inefficiently. I should of quoted the poster on the other page that was saying that "everyone gets something from the state". I say that is not true because they took it from you to begin with.
    This ^^^ is important and it bears repeating. Saying that "everyone gets something from the State" (as if you've identified some significant, profound or insightful truth) completely ignores a critical fact, and amounts to a useless half-truth (at best). The critical fact is that the State has NOTHING to GIVE TO "everyone" unless & until it first TAKES what it gives FROM "everyone". The State is NOT a source or creator of anything. It is just a "middle man" who warps & distorts the allocations of goods & services (while "skimming off" a nice big chunk for itself and its cronies/lackeys).
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito fiat justitia, ruat caelum sic semper tyrannis
    The Bastiat Collection - FREE PDF

    Fr馘駻ic Bastiat
    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

  30. #89

    Default

    That is a falacy of thought. The state CAN create wealth, whether it should is a different argument. If the state takes a million tax payers dollars and builds a road giving business a road to transport goods and the saving from that transport is over a million dollars it is wealth created. If the state builds a hydro electric dam for fifty million dollars and it produces a hundred million in electric power it has created wealth. A state can create wealth however not necessary efficiently. There is vertually nobody not receiving benefits from governemenst in this country. But at the same time there is vertually nobody not receiving hinderance from government as well.
    Last edited by klamath; 01-04-2013 at 08:02 AM.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  31. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    This ^^^ is important and it bears repeating. Saying that "everyone gets something from the State" (as if you've identified some significant, profound or insightful truth) completely ignores a critical fact, and amounts to a useless half-truth (at best). The critical fact is that the State has NOTHING to GIVE TO "everyone" unless & until it first TAKES what it gives FROM "everyone". The State is NOT a source or creator of anything. It is just a "middle man" who warps & distorts the allocations of goods & services (while "skimming off" a nice big chunk for itself and its cronies/lackeys).
    Couldn't the same be said for every single transaction that has ever occured in human history? I'm not advocating for more government by a long shot but no one does something for nothing. Even a trade of even value between you and me creates value above and beyond the initial trade.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast




« Previous Thread | Next Thread »


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •