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Thread: How is the Ron Paul USA Today ad legal?

  1. #1

    Default How is the Ron Paul USA Today ad legal?

    I've been looking at the laws as best as I can at RonPaulMax.com.

    is the Ron Paul USA Today ad legal? How is it legal? I thought that an individual could not donate more than $2300 in labor or cash to a campaign.

    Given that I don't like the official Ron Paul TV ads, can an individual who has a lot of money just buy a lot of airtime or newspaper space and run ads for Ron Paul that way? That seems like a huge loophole.

    I'm sure there's a very simple reason why this is legal. Please let me know and what this means for promoting Ron Paul, pronto.



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  3. #2

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    Well, he didn't donate money to the campaign directly, therefore he doesn't apply to the $2300 law...

  4. #3

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    You can't donate that much money directly to the campaign. But you can take action independent of the campaign and spend however much you want provided you declare what you spent to the FEC. But if the official campaign is involved *AT ALL* it will be illegal. At least, that's how I understand it.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by krackato View Post
    I've been looking at the laws as best as I can at RonPaulMax.com.

    is the Ron Paul USA Today ad legal? How is it legal? I thought that an individual could not donate more than $2300 in labor or cash to a campaign.

    Given that I don't like the official Ron Paul TV ads, can an individual who has a lot of money just buy a lot of airtime or newspaper space and run ads for Ron Paul that way? That seems like a huge loophole.

    I'm sure there's a very simple reason why this is legal. Please let me know and what this means for promoting Ron Paul, pronto.
    Easily. This ad is not supported by the campaign, it is not directed the campaign, and the campaign had no knowledge of it unless they peeked in here.

    Any citizen can take an ad anywhere as long as they notify the FEC about it. Search the forum and there are links and discussion about it somewhere around.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman View Post
    You can't donate that much money directly to the campaign. But you can take action independent of the campaign and spend however much you want provided you declare what you spent to the FEC. But if the official campaign is involved *AT ALL* it will be illegal. At least, that's how I understand it.
    Correct.

    The expenditure has to be reported to the FEC, though, and Larry is doing that.

  7. #6

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    And, as Ron Paul would say.....Blowback. Now, we are probably going to see all these other yahoos with cash doing the same thing for their pick. Hey, Chuck Norris how much money do you have?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myerz View Post
    And, as Ron Paul would say.....Blowback. Now, we are probably going to see all these other yahoos with cash doing the same thing for their pick. Hey, Chuck Norris how much money do you have?
    Nah, this has been going on for years. But usually through PACs, not individuals.
    "You know not what you are given, but forever will you know what has been taken away from you..."

    "As long as we live beyond our means we are destined to live beneath our means." - Ron Paul at a CNBC Debate in Michigan (10/09/07)

  9. #8

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    How is it not legal, we live in a free country, if we have the money we can purchase whatever we want to campaign for Ron Paul. The law that you are refering to only applies to cash contributions to the official campaign.

    Just think about what you are saying, that would mean that everyone that has contributed $2300 to the campaign would not be able to buy T-shirts, yard-signs... to show their support for Ron Paul - that is just plain crazy. And where do you get that labor costs are included in this number? I don't mean to sound rude, but where you born in the USSR or something? or is the brainwashing in this country that complete?!

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myerz View Post
    And, as Ron Paul would say.....Blowback. Now, we are probably going to see all these other yahoos with cash doing the same thing for their pick. Hey, Chuck Norris how much money do you have?
    I think Chuck Norris invented money.

  11. #10

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    I think Chuch should put his money where his karate kick is... If Wannabee is such a good guy for prez, prove it with some hard cash like Larry did! LOL... Larry's the bigger star in my eyes now... Larry, we are forever in debt to you!

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johncjackson View Post
    I think Chuck Norris invented money.
    I'm pretty sure that in the U.S., they're printing coins by having Chuck Norris wear the dye's on rings and just punching silver rounds.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulineDisciple View Post
    How is it not legal, we live in a free country
    Well then why is it not legal for me to sell my house (for more than $2300) and give the proceeds to RonPaul 2008?

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world.
    Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has...


    John Stevens
    www.RLCNEF.org

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulineDisciple View Post
    we live in a free country
    No.

  15. #14
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    Paul Disciple wrote:

    I don't mean to sound rude, but where you born in the USSR or something? or is the brainwashing in this country that complete?!
    No brainwashing, they are asking legit questions.

    What it proves is how far down the sinkhole we are, where exercising your free speech rights can run you afoul of half a dozen felonies.
    "It's a Free Country."
    "They hate us for our Freedoms."
    "The troops are protecting your Freedom."




    You're not nuts! You're FISHERMEN!!!

  16. #15

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    Ok, not totally free, but I campaign for Ron Paul everyday and have not been arrested yet. My wife was almost arrested for this "unpatriotic" activity, but that was only because she was not holding her Ron Paul sign up in a "free speech" zone. So I stand corrected, but that shouldn't stop anyone.

  17. #16

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    There was a post here yesterday saying the FEC has just relaxed it's rules on non official campaign advertising. Cant find the thread it had FEC in the title but you cant search short terms here -- unfortunately. From this it looks OK- and Llepard posted yesterday that he had to fill out a form for the FEC for this one.
    Brian Horsfield
    Co-Organizer, Fairfield, Iowa, Ron Paul Meetup Group
    http://www.meetup.com/Fairfield4RonPaul

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykzo View Post
    I'm pretty sure that in the U.S., they're printing coins by having Chuck Norris wear the dye's on rings and just punching silver rounds.
    This is true, however, he has to remove his toupee when doing so.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulineDisciple View Post
    Ok, not totally free, but I campaign for Ron Paul everyday and have not been arrested yet.
    Have you tried raising $2,301 for Ron Paul and donating it to his official campaign? Government says that you are not FREE to do that.

    Why Not?????

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world.
    Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has...


    John Stevens
    www.RLCNEF.org

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by krackato View Post
    I've been looking at the laws as best as I can at RonPaulMax.com.

    is the Ron Paul USA Today ad legal? How is it legal? I thought that an individual could not donate more than $2300 in labor or cash to a campaign.

    Given that I don't like the official Ron Paul TV ads, can an individual who has a lot of money just buy a lot of airtime or newspaper space and run ads for Ron Paul that way? That seems like a huge loophole.

    I'm sure there's a very simple reason why this is legal. Please let me know and what this means for promoting Ron Paul, pronto.
    Don't worry, it is legal. Freedom of speech. You know the First Amendment.

    I had to file an FEC form. I had to disclose my name and contact info. I had to put disclaimers on the adv.

    MARK on this forum did good work on this, look at his posts.

    LWL

  21. #20
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    LLepard wrote:

    I had to file an FEC form. I had to disclose my name and contact info. I had to put disclaimers on the adv.
    Congress shall make NO law....
    "It's a Free Country."
    "They hate us for our Freedoms."
    "The troops are protecting your Freedom."




    You're not nuts! You're FISHERMEN!!!

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by llepard View Post
    Don't worry, it is legal. Freedom of speech. You know the First Amendment.

    I had to file an FEC form. I had to disclose my name and contact info. I had to put disclaimers on the adv.
    It might be legal but that is certainly not true freedom!

    Why should you have to file a FEDERAL form and disclose your name and contact info to the feds?

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world.
    Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has...


    John Stevens
    www.RLCNEF.org

  23. #22

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    By the way - THANK YOU Llepard!

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world.
    Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has...


    John Stevens
    www.RLCNEF.org

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by krackato View Post
    I've been looking at the laws as best as I can at RonPaulMax.com.

    is the Ron Paul USA Today ad legal? How is it legal? I thought that an individual could not donate more than $2300 in labor or cash to a campaign.

    Given that I don't like the official Ron Paul TV ads, can an individual who has a lot of money just buy a lot of airtime or newspaper space and run ads for Ron Paul that way? That seems like a huge loophole.

    I'm sure there's a very simple reason why this is legal. Please let me know and what this means for promoting Ron Paul, pronto.
    Yes, it is entirely legal! Of course I would advise you to contact your lawyer, but it is my understanding of the regulations that there is no limit to the amount of his or her own money an individual can spend on ads endorsing a candidate for federal office so long as 1) it is not done in coordination with the official campaign (in which case it would be an in-kind contribution), 2) it is not done within 30 days of a primary or caucus nominating contest, 3) it is not done within 60 days of a general election.

    This is the way it is intended to work.

  25. #24

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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Question #2
    Can a bunch of Rich guys get together and buy ad time on television for ads or an infomercial about Ron Paul? Is this legal? Yes or No?

    In that case, shouldn't we all be focusing on Rich Guys with money who don't like the war and want the income tax eliminated for all?

    BTW, I realize the huge problem this creates if a a few billionaires like Hillary, Giuliani, or just plain want war because they're the CEO or primary shareholder in a weapons producing company. This is one of those big questions of democracy.

    Theoretically Money can buy Votes, therefore, theoretically the rich can buy the election which is of course the exact opposite of the will of the people.

    Down the rabbit hole I go....

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by dircha View Post
    Yes, it is entirely legal! Of course I would advise you to contact your lawyer, but it is my understanding of the regulations that there is no limit to the amount of his or her own money an individual can spend on ads endorsing a candidate for federal office so long as 1) it is not done in coordination with the official campaign (in which case it would be an in-kind contribution), 2) it is not done within 30 days of a primary or caucus nominating contest, 3) it is not done within 60 days of a general election.

    This is the way it is intended to work.
    Well if it is not to be done within 30 days of a primary or caucus, that pretty much kills every llepard type initiative for the several months during which we have staggered caucuses and primaries throughout the states doesn't it?
    "A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicity." - Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

  27. #26

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    This is a 1st amendment free speech thing. They can put some regulations and requirements on it but they can't stop you from publicly endorsing your favorite candidate.

  28. #27

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    I wish Ross Perot would get behind Paul and put his billions (well ok, just a few 100 mil) to work for some ads.
    http://www.freetalklive.com


    I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live...................... and shut your f----n' mouth. - Bill Hicks

    "The only difference between the Government and the Mafia is that the government flies flags in front of their offices" - Harry Browne

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by quickmike View Post
    I wish Ross Perot would get behind Paul
    .

    I'll give him a call, and email him with detailed info.


    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


    FEC Rules and guidelines page:

    http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/fecfeca.shtml


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Prohibited Contributions and Expenditures

    The FECA places prohibitions on contributions and expenditures by certain individuals and organizations. The following are prohibited from making contributions or expenditures to influence federal elections:
    • Corporations;
    • Labor organizations;
    • Federal government contractors; and
    • Foreign nationals.
    Furthermore, with respect to federal elections:
    • No one may make a contribution in another person's name.
    • No one may make a contribution in cash of more than $100.
    In addition to the above prohibitions on contributions and expenditures in federal election campaigns, the FECA also prohibits foreign nationals, national banks and other federally chartered corporations from making contributions or expenditures in connection with state and local elections.

    Independent Expenditures

    Under federal election law, an individual or group (such as a PAC) may make unlimited "independent expenditures" in connection with federal elections.
    An independent expenditure is an expenditure for a communication which expressly advocates the election or defeat of a clearly identified candidate and which is made independently from the candidate's campaign.
    To be considered independent, the communication may not be made with the cooperation, consultation or concert with, or at the request or suggestion of, any candidate or his/her authorized committees or a political party, or any of their agents. While there is no limit on how much anyone may spend on an independent expenditure, the law does require persons making independent expenditures to report them and to disclose the sources of the funds they used. The public can review these reports at the FEC's Public Records Office.

    .

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by krackato View Post
    Can a bunch of Rich guys get together and buy ad time on television for ads or an infomercial about Ron Paul?
    They have to use a PAC, and their donations are limited to $5000 per person per PAC. They can set up as many PACs as they want, and they are limited in what they can say.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corydoras View Post
    They have to use a PAC, and their donations are limited to $5000 per person per PAC. They can set up as many PACs as they want, and they are limited in what they can say.
    Not if they do it individually outside of a PAC, I believe.

    The same rules should apply that I posted above ( for a private citizen(s) ).

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