My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RPOriginally Posted by Ron PaulThat which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
HB34 let me suggest this to you. Believe what ever you want to believe. On Lincoln, ignore Willam H. Herndon, Carl Schurz, Henry Ketcham, Nicolay and Hay, Abraham Lincoln's own words, and just believe whatever you want to believe. You certainly have the right to be stupid in this world.
In "The Real Lincoln" DiLorenzo makes his readers believe that Lincoln was against auditing the bank. People like you simply believe whatever is written down and walk away believing Lincoln wanted an unaudited bank like the "Federal Reserve System." People like me search for the truth. Here is what I found.
Lincoln wrote an audit the bank amendment for the State Bank of Illinois in 1835. Again it is public record.
Amendment to an Act to Incorporate the Subscribers to the Bank of the State of Illinois - A. Lincoln
People like you believe whatever DiLorenzo writes because he is a member of the Mises Institute. People like me question everything and seek out the facts.
DiLorenzo describes the letter to Captain Fox: "Lincoln wrote a letter of thanks and congratulation to his naval commander Gustavus Fox for assisting him in getting the war started in this way." Why did DiLorenzo lie and say that Lincoln sent warships when the letter he referenced specifically says "you were deprived of a war-vessel, with her men"? Because DiLorenzo knows that people like you are too lazy to do your own homework. Then when people like me come along and point to the truth, you just want to fight with them."On April 12, 1861 only hours after Confederate guns opened fire on Fort Sumter in the Charleston harbor, Confederate Secretary of War Leroy P. Walker appeared before a jubilant crowd in Montgomery, Alabama. "No man can tell when the war this day commenced will end," Walker thundered from the balcony of the Exchange Hotel, at the heart of the Confederate capital, "but I will prophesy that the flag which now floats the breeze here will float over the dome of the old capital at Washington before the first of May."
DiLorenzo flat out lies over and over. You would not know that though, HB34, because you don't do your own homework.WASHINGTON, May 1st, 1861.
Capt. G.V. Fox:
My Dear Sir,
I sincerely regret that the failure of the late attempt to provision Fort Sumter should be the source of any annoyance to you. The practicability of your plan was not, in fact, brought to a test. By reason of a gale, well known in advance to be possible, and not improbable, the tugs, an essential part of the plan, never reached the ground ; while, by an accident, for which you were in nowise responsible, and possibly I, to some extent, was, you were deprived of a war-vessel, with her men, which you deemed of great importance to the enterprise.
I most cheerfully and truthfully declare that the failure of the undertaking has not lowered you a particle, while the qualities you developed in the effort have greatly heightened you in my estimation. For a daring and dangerous enterprise of a similar character, you would, to-day, be the man of all my acquaintances whom I would select. You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result.
Very truly your friend, A. LINCOLN.
So first you claim hes a liar because he says 28 years in politics but you only see 12 years in political office. two very different things. then you keep referring to your op where you post a speech that you "believe" dilorenzo is referring to yet i cant seem to find the quote dilorenzo uses at all in your op. your last quote says "you were deprived of a war-vessel, with her men..." dilorenzo says "Lincoln had sent warships to Charleston Harbor, and successfully duped the South Carolinians into foolishly firing on the fort." didnt lincoln send unarmed warships an trick them or not? lincolns letter doesnt refute that at all, it seems to me it confirms it.
Charleston, April 8.
To L. P. Walker, Secretary of War.
An authorized messenger from President Lincoln just informed Governor Pickens and myself that provisions will be sent to Fort Sumpter[sic], peaceably, or otherwise by force.
[Signed.] G. T. BEAUREGARD.
What would you have done if you were in Lincoln's shoes?
The Civil War was about slavery.
Secession was specifically about slavery. The seceding states declare their intentions in their seceding documents.
Mississippi,[A]n increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding [i.e., northern] states to the institution of slavery has led to a disregard of their obligations. . . . [T]hey have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery. . . . They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes [through the Underground Railroad].
Alabama,Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery – the greatest material interest of the world. . . . [A] blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Georgia,. . . the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of President and Vice-President of the United States of America by a sectional party [the Republicans], avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions [slavery] and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama . .
Louisiana,A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the federal government has been committed [i.e., the Republican Party] will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia [in favor of secession]. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican Party under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. . . . The prohibition of slavery in the territories, hostility to it everywhere, the equality of the black and white races, disregard of all constitutional guarantees in its favor, were boldly proclaimed by its [Republican] leaders and applauded by its followers. . . . [T]he abolitionists and their allies in the northern states have been engaged in constant efforts to subvert our institutions [i.e., slavery].
Texas,Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern Confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery. . . . Louisiana and Texas have the same language, laws, and institutions. . . . and they are both so deeply interested in African slavery that it may be said to be absolutely necessary to their existence and is the keystone to the arch of their prosperity. . . . The people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery if Texas either did not secede or, having seceded, should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy.
Virginia,[Texas] was received as a commonwealth, holding, maintaining, and protecting the institution known as Negro slavery – the servitude of the African to the white race within [Texas] – a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race and which her people intended should exist in all future time.
Arkansas,On April 17, 1861, Virginia became the eighth state to secede. It, too, acknowledged that the “oppression of the southern slave-holding states” (among which it numbered itself) had motivated its decision.
North Carolina and Tennessee,No concessions would now satisfy (and none ought now to satisfy) the South but such as would amount to a surrender of the distinctive principles by which the Republican Party coheres [exists], because none other or less would give the South peace and security. That Party would have to agree that in the view of the Constitution, slaves are property – that slavery might exist and should be legalized and protected in territory hereafter to be acquired to the southwest [e.g., New Mexico, Arizona, etc.], and that Negroes and mulattoes cannot be citizens of the United States nor vote at general elections in the states. . . . For that Party to make these concessions would simply be to commit suicide and therefore it is idle to expect from the North – so long as it [the Republican Party] rules there – a single concession of any value.
North Carolina and Tennessee became the tenth and eleventh states to secede, thus finishing the formation of the new nation that titled itself the Slave-Holding Confederate States of America. Southern secession documents indisputably affirm that the South’s desire to preserve slavery was the driving force in its secession and thus a primary cause of the Civil War.
Last edited by Tpoints; 12-25-2012 at 05:58 AM.