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Thread: Why Conservative Protestantism is the biggest threat to the Pro-Life cause

  1. #1

    Why Conservative Protestantism is the biggest threat to the Pro-Life cause

    Why Conservative Protestantism is the biggest threat to the Pro-Life cause

    I have become convinced that the central threat to the Pro-Life movement is none other than Protestantism itself. This is because what Protestantism considers "Pro-Life" is not what the term actually means. So when Protestants and Catholics "join forces" for Pro-Life causes, the Pro-Life cause is undermined from the very start. Let me explain.

    As everyone knows, within Protestantism there is no official position on abortion. Indeed, there's no way for them to even say whether it's an essential or non-essential Christian doctrine, much less what the parameters are. A large percentage of major Protestant denominations allow divorce. While it is true that these pro-abortion Protestants don't engage in Pro-Life causes, the mere fact they operate under a "Christian" banner is a huge blow to the Pro-Life cause. But that's only half the picture.

    The other half of the picture consists of the anti-abortion (Conservative) Protestant denominations who allow "exceptions" to the rule. For example, allowing abortion in the case of rape, incest, health of the mother, and birth defects. The great majority of Conservative Protestants embrace some form of the "except for" clause, and these are the ones often joining forces with Catholicism. But if murder is allowed for certain "exceptions," then one is not really opposing murder (itself) at all, but rather something else. At that point, it's virtually impossible to push for a coherent anti-abortion legislation, since it would amount to saying it is permissible to kill innocent life in one case but not another.

    So why do Conservative Protestants allow for "exceptions"? The reason is because Conservative Protestants are more focused on "taking responsibility" rather than a firmly established notion of "sanctity of life." They view the abortion problem as anyone who engages in sexual relations should "know the risks" and "take responsibility" if new life is conceived. On the other hand, this means that if a woman is raped or has mental/physical health risks she should "not have to take responsibility." This is why they use language in their statements such as forbidding abortion for matters of "personal convenience." That said, I don't believe this is due to any malice on the part of Conservative Protestants, but rather I believe it is because they lack the intellectual abilities that Catholicism is granted by the Holy Spirit in virtue of being the one true Church. That's not a boast, it's a humble statement of reality: such confusion on what it means to be Pro-Life is impossible when the Holy Spirit is guiding.

    While there are Conservative Protestant denominations that don't allow "exceptions" at all, they are an extreme minority and are totally drowned out by the super-majority of pro-abortion and "except for" denominations. They are generally too small and disorganized to have any significant impact.

    If that was not bad enough, virtually all of Protestantism is even more guilty for the failure of the Pro-Life movement on two other counts: divorce and contraception. As virtually every Protestant denomination allows these two things, it can be properly said that Protestantism as a whole is the biggest problem.

    There is no need to go into all the details of the damage that divorce causes, so it's enough to say that divorce devastates families and destabilizes children. With half of all marriages ending in divorce, a huge percentage of young adults fear marriage commitment, and prefer the easier path of cohabitation and "shacking up." The result is a lot more young adult women who find themselves pregnant and not in a position to care for the child, so they figure abortion is the easiest way to deal with the dilemma. And I believe it can rightly be said that when a husband and wife wont stay together for the sake of their children, that in an equivalent sense is a form of aborting them, for they are just as unwanted. Protestants have led the charge in tearing down the family, particularly in the case of divorce. In fact it was iconic Conservatives like Ronald Reagan who proudly passed the nation's first no-fault divorce law.

    The second point, contraception, is the most controversial of all, but it's also the root cause of abortion. No Pro-Life system can be built on a firm foundation if contraception is not addressed and firmly rejected. While Protestants see no connection between abortion and contraception, the Holy Spirit has made the connection abundantly clear to the Catholic Church. The basic logic is as follows: contraception has driven a permanent wedge between sexual relations and procreation; they are no longer united. This means that a child is strictly a choice independent of sexual relations, since contraception lets the couple choose when and if they want a child. The problem is, when contraception fails (as it often does) and pregnancy results, then what is conceived is an unwanted child, by definition. And once Plan-A (contraception) to avoid having a child fails, then this requires a Plan-B (abortion) to deal with the new "problem." But don't take my word for it, look at what the Supreme Court said in 1992 in a case against Planned Parenthood:

    Abortion is customarily chosen as an unplanned response to the consequence of unplanned activity or to the failure of conventional birth control, and except on the assumption that no intercourse would have occurred but for Roe's holding, such behavior may appear to justify no reliance claim. … To eliminate the issue of reliance [on abortion] that easily, however, one would need to limit cognizable reliance to specific instances of sexual activity. But to do this [limit abortion by banning Roe v Wade] would be simply to refuse to face the fact that, for two decades of economic and social developments, people have organized intimate relationships and made choices that define their views of themselves and their places in society, in reliance on the availability of abortion in the event that contraception should fail.
    This is what the Catholic Church has been saying the whole time. Even these secular political minds see the link. Sadly, Protestantism still does not. From this it is clear that it doesn't matter how Pro-Life someone claims to be, if they don't address and oppose the issue of contraception then they are attacking the symptom and not the cause. One final point to make is to note that the Supreme Court was making a Conservative argument, appealing to tradition as the reason to keep the status quo. This exposes the fundamental problem with Conservatism, which is that of conserving traditions without any regard for the content of what is being conserved. This is why Conservatives today are perfectly accepting of divorce, contraception, exceptions for abortion, and similar moral errors.



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Confederate View Post
    Why Conservative Protestantism is the biggest threat to the Pro-Life cause . . .




    As everyone knows, within Protestantism there is no official position on abortion.


    What a stupid and ignorant thing to claim . . .

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    bump
    You shouldn't bump banned member's posts.
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    What a stupid and ignorant thing to claim . . .
    So then, show me a unified, official statement by Protestants on abortion. If it's such a stupid claim then surely you can show me some evidence to debunk it.

  7. #6
    The only exception I support for abortion is the life of the mother. I don't support exceptions for rape and incest.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    The only exception I support for abortion is the life of the mother. I don't support exceptions for rape and incest.
    One exception leads to two exceptions which leads to three...and then we have exceptions for economic reasons, because the child might 'not be loved enough,' and other excuses to murder an unborn child.

    The 'life of the mother' excuse is absurd, as Dr. Ron Paul very well states:

    The Health of the Mother
    Abortion is frequently justified as a method for the mother to end or avoid various diseases. This argument is grossly exaggerated and was only a subterfuge used by the promoters of abortion to remove the legal restraints against performing abortions. In delivering nearly 4,000 babies, I personally never came across a need even to entertain the thought of therapeutic abortion for the health of the mother, nor can I imagine the story book case of the doctor being forced into a crisis and making a decision of whose life to spare—mother or baby. Such distorted medical views have come from poorly researched movies on the subject. The state of pregnancy is natural; it’s not a disease; and it is complimentary to both fetus and mother. Most of the time it’s a delightful period for the mother and she feels better than at any other time in her life.

    http://media.ronpaul.se/2012/01/Ron-...nd-Liberty.pdf

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    So then, show me a unified, official statement by Protestants on abortion. If it's such a stupid claim then surely you can show me some evidence to debunk it.
    Unified statement?

    The Protestants I hang with, all are unified in the belief that "Thou Shall Not Murder."

    It is incredible to me that the RCC would claim to be the only virtuous ones who oppose abortion, while pedophelia runs rampant in their ranks.

    What intellectual and moral hypocrisy you display!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    bump
    Oh good grief, eduardo...
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Unified statement?

    The Protestants I hang with, all are unified in the belief that "Thou Shall Not Murder."
    So where's the unified statement that covers all Protestant denominations/eclesial communities denouncing abortion completely? There isn't. Every Protestant eclesial community has it's own view on it, with some being 'pro-choice' to some claiming to being pro-life but being in favor of exceptions, ranging from rape, incest, life of mother, to incredibly pathetic excuses such as economic hardship, to some Protestant eclesial communities actually being 100% pro-life when it comes to abortions and supporting no exceptions to murdering an innocent unborn child.

    And let's not even start on Protestant's acceptance of contraception, which multiple studies have confirmed lead to an increase in abortion rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    It is incredible to me that the RCC would claim to be the only virtuous ones who oppose abortion, while pedophelia runs rampant in their ranks.
    I guess you haven't read the John Jay Report which shows that the rate of sexual abuse within the Church was no higher than in the general population and even lower than in Protestant eclesial communities.
    Last edited by eduardo89; 04-18-2014 at 09:27 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I guess you haven't read the John Jay Report which shows that the rate of sexual abuse within the Church was no higher than in the general population and even lower than in Protestant eclesial communities.
    Sheesh . . . I am not impressed at all.

    No Christian or organized church should ever boast their statistics of sexual violating children is status quo with the world at large.

    This is sick thinking . . .

    You claim virtue for standing against abortion, and advocate the dear child be born and grow to 8-12 years old, so that the religious magistrates can use their bodies?

    [mod delete]

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Sheesh . . . I am not impressed at all.

    No Christian or organized church should ever boast their statistics of sexual violating children is status quo with the world at large.
    Where have I boasted about that? I was correcting your insinuation that the amount sexual abuse within the Church is outside the norm of what happens in the world at large.

    Sexual abuse is always a tragedy, especially when it concerns the young. The way the Church handled it for decades is a disgrace and dark stain on its history, but the abuses, like in the world at large, was the product of sinful men not of the Church. It was most definitely Satan working to attack the Church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    You claim virtue for standing against abortion, and advocate the dear child be born and grow to 8-12 years old, so that the religious magistrates can use their bodies?
    Wow...where did I ever advocate any child be sexually abused? I sincerely resent that accusation and demand an apology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    [mod delete].
    [mod delete]

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Where have I boasted about that? I was correcting your insinuation that the amount sexual abuse within the Church is outside the norm of what happens in the world at large.

    Sexual abuse is always a tragedy, especially when it concerns the young. The way the Church handled it for decades is a disgrace and dark stain on its history, but the abuses, like in the world at large, was the product of sinful men not of the Church. It was most definitely Satan working to attack the Church.



    Wow...where did I ever advocate any child be sexually abused? I sincerely resent that accusation and demand an apology.



    [mod delete]
    Well, it sure looked like you were attempting to minimize it . . .

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Well, it sure looked like you were attempting to minimize it . . .
    You were trying to bring it up to libel the Church as some sort of wicked organisation, even though the most thorough study on sexual abuse within the Church and other religious communities show that it is your Protestant eclesial communities and organisations that have higher incidences of sexual abuse.

    Then you go on to and commit libel by claiming I advocate the sexual abuse of children. That is absolutely sick and you should apologise.

    And instead of trolling this thread and taking it off into a very nasty tangent, why don't you address the claims made in the OP.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    You were trying to bring it up to libel the Church as some sort of wicked organisation,
    Not. I first gave answer to your accusation that Protestants do not fight abortion.

    You can apologize to me for this misrepresentation any time you decide maybe you should.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Not. I first gave answer to your accusation that Protestants do not fight abortion.
    I never said Protestants do not fight against abortion, many in fact do. The OP makes the point that American Protestantism as a whole has been the biggest enemy to the pro-life movement because of the slippery slope their support for exceptions as well as their near-universal support for contraception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    You can apologize to me for this misrepresentation any time you decide maybe you should.
    I have nothing to apologise to you for, since you have not refuted any of the claims made in the OP and I have not personally attacked or misrepresented you. You, on the other hand, claimed I advocate the sexual abuse of children, which is a sick and twisted thing to say about someone.

    Anyway, as I said in my previous post, please stop derailing the thread and if you wish to post in this thread make it about the OP. Please follow forum guidelines:
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    Last edited by eduardo89; 04-18-2014 at 10:14 PM.



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